Dietary Advice Poll

[xyzzy]

I think we as posters should be able to make statements like the one below to fellow T2 members.

Although the following regime is specifically not recommended by the NHS or DUK it's what I have done to control my T2. I and many of us have found dramatically reducing our sugar and starchy foods to be very helpful in controlling our T2 diabetes. This means dropping all obvious forms of sugar in your diet along with probably at least half your rice, pasta, potatoes, bread, cereals and other flour based products. To work out how much sugar and starchy foods you need to cut out many of us find using a blood glucose meter is an essential tool. I would highly recommend you consider doing this.

So the specific mention of alternate ways other than the NHS way should not be moderated and members should be able to freely state those views and why they advocate them in any relevant thread .

 

[CollieBoy]

To deny us this would be a gagging order worthy of the heights of despotism and should not be tolerated

 

[GraceK]

I thought we were all over 18 years of age on this forum and that being adults we'd recognise the difference between a person who is expressing an opinion and a person who is dictating what someone else should eat.

But after reading through various threads and finding that some people feel threatened and bullied by low carbers expressing their opinions, sharing their experience of success with it or responding to requests for help from people for ideas on what they should eat. As a low carber who finds eating carbs affects me badly, I have no other experience to share but the fact that carbs are bad for ME, and I don't eat them.

I think it's far more dangerous to imply that it's fine to eat carbs when that might only be the case for SOME diabetics but is by no means the case for others and could cause problems for those who are very carb sensitive.

It's not protein that causes high blood sugar is it? And it's not fats that cause high blood sugar is it? Or have I missed something here?

I changed my signature a few days ago which I hope makes it clear that when I respond to a request for ideas about what to eat, I am not giving medical advice, I am not giving ANY advice, I'm giving my OPINION BASED ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE OF MY OWN DIABETES.

I would have thought that on a forum of adults, that would have been pretty obvious anyway.

 

[xyzzy]

I would have thought that on a forum of adults, that would have been pretty obvious anyway.

You'd have thought so but apparently not Grace.

 

[xyzzy]

Bumping up as it got posted very late yesterday.

 

[Indy51]

I've voted yes to most of your polls so far, but I really think you're starting to go a bit over the top with the number of them at the risk of diluting your message. JMO.

 

[xyzzy]

I've voted yes to most of your polls so far, but I really think you're starting to go a bit over the top with the number of them at the risk of diluting your message. JMO.

Yes I agree 4 should be plenty :thumbup:

 

[MaryJ]

If it's not acceptable how can we share our experiences of what's worked for us - whatever that is!

Otherwise the forum may as well not exist and everyone may as well follow the NHS **** advice and then we can deal with the complications later.

Mary x

 

[Dillinger]

Just saw this yesterday and liked it very much; this seems to be a very appropriate position for this question as to 'healthy eating for diabetics'.

"When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly half way between. It is possible for one side simply to be wrong."

Richard Dawkins

Best

Dillinger

 

[GraceK]

Perhaps we need a SECTION with the title SENSITIVE SUBJECTS - MAY CONTAIN UPSETTING CONTENT - and perhaps that section could be passworded or locked or protected or whatever and wouldn't automatically come up in NEW POSTS section.

Then at least any newbies who may be in the very early days of diagnosis can decide for themselves how much they want to know at that point. There's a GREAT DIFFERENCE between people burying their heads in the sand and not wanting to know AT ALL and people who are GENUINELY IN SHOCK after diagnosis and who would be TOTALLY OVERWHELMED by too much information at that stage.

Let's be sensible and sensitive please and also realise that shock tactics do not work for EVERYONE just as LCHF doesn't work for EVERYONE. We need to not only pay attention to the FOOD DIET we take in, but we also need to pay attention to the INFORMATION DIET we ingest.

I'm a member of an online chatroom and I happened to mention that I was recently diagnosed with diabetes. I was instantly addressed via microphone in the room and told "Welcome to a very long, slow death because that's what you have to look forward to." He then went on to send me pictures of his foot.

I fail to see how he felt his comments and actions might help me as a diabetic and I certainly wouldn't want to receive information from him and that's not me burying my head in the sand, it's me not wanting to join him in his pity party. I've got better things to do, like work out a decent diet. It was obvious from his conversations in the room that he had NOT taken his diabetes seriously from the start and felt entitled to believe that other newly diagnosed diabetics were stupid enough to do the same and so he was on a crusade to 'enlighten' as many people as he could by publishing photos of his complications.

Often people who wish they'd done things differently, turn to evangelising and shock tactics where others are concerned because they may feel that had they known more about it, they might have behaved differently. The fact is ... shock tactics rarely work. What they do is make people pull down the shutters and run the other way.

This is my OPINION as a relative newbie to the forum and I really don't want to vote for EITHER/OR choices - that's forcing people into one of two boxes, there are viewpoints which don't fit into neat little black and white boxes I'm afraid.

 

[Pneu]

To deny people information to make an informed decision makes us culpable to any complications they might then suffer. To present people with the message 'you need to control your blood glucose' and this is a very popular methodology used and proven to work by 100's of people on this forum is I believe perfectly acceptable.. AS LONG as the consensus is that people are free to control their diabetes in a way that works for them.

 

[GraceK]

To deny people information to make an informed decision makes us culpable to any complications they might then suffer. To present people with the message 'you need to control your blood glucose' and this is a very popular methodology used and proven to work by 100's of people on this forum is I believe perfectly acceptable.. AS LONG as the consensus is that people are free to control their diabetes in a way that works for them.

Sorry, but we're forum members not HCPs or Government representatives of any kind ... and we're not culpable in the development of any complications that others may get because they may not have been informed about them on this forum. As forum members we have a responsibility to USE APPROPRIATE TITLES for forum SECTIONS and forum THREADS so that the reader has some indication of the kind of information a thread may contain. This thread title for example, is clearly indicating what the thread should contain. Whereas a thread entitled something like for example 'LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO ME TODAY' gives absolutely no indication whatsoever of what that thread may contain. It may contain something pleasant to read about or it may contain something extremely disturbing to some people.

 

[Pneu]

I am sorry I disagree.. as a member of this community I feel a responsibility to support others and provide them with the information that they need to support themselves and their diabetes. The first thing any HCP worth they salt will tell you is that you listen to the patient; they know their condition best.. we have a massive array of individuals on this forum with a wealth of experience which is every bit as valid as some text book or NHS handout.

I am not going to tell a person what they should or shouldn't do.. I want to arm them with the information to make that choice themselves to understand the FULL facts.

In the real world people have to deal with adversity and opinions they don't like every day.. like in the real world if you don't like something you don't have to participate.. no one is forcing people to read threads... this is a forum of opinion some you will some you won't agree with.. but to take away an opinion that you don't agree with dilutes the forum and the advice given to ALL.

 

[CollieBoy]

Re: Dietary Advice Poll - a suggestion

Perhaps if a button could be inserted that flags a post as sensitive/graphic causing only the header & warning classification to be displayed in the thread sothat post is only displayed if requested.

 

[GraceK]

I am sorry I disagree.. as a member of this community I feel a responsibility to support others and provide them with the information that they need to support themselves and their diabetes. The first thing any HCP worth they salt will tell you is that you listen to the patient; they know their condition best.. we have a massive array of individuals on this forum with a wealth of experience which is every bit as valid as some text book or NHS handout.

I am not going to tell a person what they should or shouldn't do.. I want to arm them with the information to make that choice themselves to understand the FULL facts.

In the real world people have to deal with adversity and opinions they don't like every day.. like in the real world if you don't like something you don't have to participate.. no one is forcing people to read threads... this is a forum of opinion some you will some you won't agree with.. but to take away an opinion that you don't agree with dilutes the forum and the advice given to ALL.

You're right - no-one forces people to read threads but as any forum is ABOUT READING THREADS surely it makes sense to ensure that the TITLES of threads give some idea of what the content of the thread will be? People can then AVOID reading about things they are not interested in at that particular point in their diabetes journey.

 

[Grazer]

You're right - no-one forces people to read threads but as any forum is ABOUT READING THREADS surely it makes sense to ensure that the TITLES of threads give some idea of what the content of the thread will be? People can then AVOID reading about things they are not interested in at that particular point in their diabetes journey.

Sorry, not practical. Threads morph. They start off discussing losing weight for example, then someone pops in "lost weight but BGs still high", and before long you're discussing high BGs and that moves on to complications. Titles of threads rarely give an insight as to the final content. You can't title a thread "weight loss, but this may lead to discussions on matters which could upset the faint hearted" In fact, so-called "grim reaper" comments don't tend to turn up on threads titled regarding complications! People on those threads already understand about them by definition.

 

[Defren]

I believe dietary advice is exactly what we should be giving. There is more than one way to skin a cat (sorry Catza) and there are more than one way to control diabetes. If people using different dietary ways to maintain good BG give their opinions, then whomever is receiving the advice can try different methods. It seems logical to me anyway!

 

[GraceK]

I believe dietary advice is exactly what we should be giving. There is more than one way to skin a cat (sorry Catza) and there are more than one way to control diabetes. If people using different dietary ways to maintain good BG give their opinions, then whomever is receiving the advice can try different methods. It seems logical to me anyway!

:wave: Welcome back Defren. Totally agree with you.

 

[xyzzy]

I thought the whole point of a self help diabetic forum was to give other people helpful advice. It simply needs to be remembered that the advice anyone person gives will be largely from their own personal experience as that is what they have become expert in. Where it all goes so wrong is when one group of people are not given the chance to express their way equally to any other group or just as bad when no one is allowed to advocate anything at all.

People should be allowed to be challenged about what they are advocating. How else are those people who have arrived here looking for help expected to make decisions? Those challenges should be against the method being advocated and not the person who has stated it. Valid challenges would to me be along the lines of "that won't keep my levels safe" or "there isn't really any long term study that says it's safe in fact read this counter argument" or "I tried it and found ...." or even "that may work for you because your of your circumstances [insert age, sex, diabetic type, insulin usage or whatever] but I don't think it works for me as my circumstances are different.

The rule should not be that it is wrong to advocate dietary information rather the rule should be that it is wrong to suppress anyone from stating what works for them. People are adults and should be allowed to then make their own choices. They do not need moderating towards or away from one method or another they are perfectly capable of making their own decisions. Give people some credit the reason they are here is that they generally want to find out information. If they find out the information that works for them then their worries and concerns are lessened. If they do not like the advice they have received they can go elsewhere.

 

[ladybird64]

Just did a long post elsewhere, tried to post it and lost the lot..some weird forum message about needing a password came up.

I haven't got the energy for a battle but I'll tell y'all something. Show me one post on the Greetings or Newbies section of this forum where anyone has received anything less than unconditional support. I have seen names crop up that have also received nothing less than understanding and complete support..on numerous occasions.

I see who posts on the "new" sections, who takes their time to reassure and encourage. Those who want to argue that point, then go there and take a look, there is no argument because the very people who have had accusations levelled against them are the most prolific posters here..and what I have seen has made me so damned sad and upset I can't really express it.

I DO NOT low carb and I have issues with food. Nobody, and I mean nobody, has had a go at me. Nothing but kindness and support when things are tough.

I am going to say something now, something I have never said here before. I have mentioned my diabetes and that of my daughter-I have never mentioned my husband and his type 2. He is one of the "if I can't see it, it can't be hurting me" ones. he has other health issues and I will not mollycoddle him, he genuinely thinks he can get away with eating what he does. Docs do little but increase meds, don't read him the riot act etc. I do not beleive that I should have to chide a grown man, he is responsible for his own actions.
He also has severe psoriasis and only has one kidney, the other was removed in childhood. He only tested recently because of gentle naggiing from me-his levels range between 14-25. I know without a shadow of a doubt that the bread etc that he eats is going to either put him in a wheelchair, give him neuropathy or kill him. I can say that without anyone raining down on me because he is my husband and I love him. I cannot get him to change because he cannot see the bigger picture-his "lady" (me) on his case about what he eats when doc has told him brown bread and jacket spuds and low fat everything are the way forward. This is the "expert advice"..and it is probably going to kill or disable the man I love and who I have been with since I was 17.

I wish with all my heart someone could terrify him but it's not going to happen. Thanks to all of you who tell it like it is and for having the courage to do so. I'd have been bloody lost without you.

EDIT-Apologies for typos, I'm tired and struggling to write.