type 2 and sugar control

[vicky_l]

Hi

I was diagnosed about a year ago and my last Hba1c was high 62 at this time I am diet controlled but dr would like me medicated trouble is I dont even take a paracetamol usually so am not keen on switching to medication unless truly no alternative

today I had breakfast boiled eggs and 2 hrs later my glucose was 7.1

had lunch wasnt hungry just very tired have been doing more so probably just that (have many health issues not diabetes related) but made myself eat something (am so trying to eat three meals a day of some kind) so ate small tin mackerel, 1 pear and 4 carob brazils and an hr and half later blood glucose is 7.9

this tells me my body is bringing levels down in a reasonable time of 2 hrs to under the recommended level of 8.5

my question is

Do I really need more than three meals a day?

as in are snacks essential the reason I ask is when I eat snacks by blood glucose is high and well I am morbidly obese and trying to lose weight and of course have no idea what the breakdown of fat does to my blood glucose levels but my brain says if I am breaking down fat to use as energy which will lead to wait loss surely that could effect blood glucose levels

so thats my thing query

thanks

Vicky

 

[Daibell]

Hi. An HBA1c of 62 is quite high and needs action. If you are morbidly obese then I assume you are including a fair amount of carbs in your diet? These must be reduced if you are to reduce weight and avoid medication. I expect the doc wants you to start taking Metformin which is a good safe drug but will not by itself solve the problem. So, the right diet and portion control are essential if you are to avoid or minimise medication; an HBa1c of 62mmol could well be damaging your body. Note that snacks are not a good idea (for anyone?) so not needed other than small non-carb things like nuts.

 

[vicky_l]

Hi

Thanks for reply

I eat very small amount of carbs usually about 30g of oats at breakfast and about 60g of rice at main meal (cooked weight) apart from that I dont eat much carbs

I eat 15g of nuts or seeds every day at breakfast I make my own muesli up with fruit and seeds

lunch is usually soup like chicken and mushroom and

dinner I usually eat 60g of cooked rice with fish and veg or meat or beans as an alternative protein

thats my general diet

Yes I am doing weight reduction

and yes dr wants me on metformin How will the hba1c of 62 be effecting my body?

thanks

Vicky_l

 

[viviennem]

Have a look at Viv's Modified Atkins Diet, which is a Sticky Thread in the Low Carb section. It's a good base for any low-carb diet; if you stick to my version you will be eating about 25g - 30g of carbohydrate daily. If you want to eat more carbs than that, add them in carefully, using a carb counter book, from Low GI foods. As you increase the carbs, so you decrease the fat.

Following this diet I have lost 4 stone (BMI now 38, down from 48), my blood pressure has dropped, my cholesterol is fine, and my blood glucose levels are never normally outside the non-diabetic range. My last HbA1c was 37.

On your present diet, your carb intake is as follows:

30g oats 45g carb
60g cooked rice white = c 14g carb; brown c 13g carb (both cooked).
15g nuts/seeds c 7g carb
Pear 10g carb

That gets you up to 75g carb, which is about the level when my weight stalls or even starts to increase. You certainly won't be in ketosis (fat-burning) on that amount of carbs. I get there at around 30g daily.

That leaves a few further questions - what fruit do you use in your muesli? dried fruit is quite high in carbs, and so are some fresh fruits.
Which chicken & mushroom soup do you have? How many carbs on the packet/tin?
Which veg are you eating? and which beans?

There could be a further 20g carb at least sneaking into your diet with those 3 questions. Then, what do you drink? how many carbs in it? many diet foods/drinks are stuffed full of carbs.

I would suggest that you get a carb counter book (search on Amazon) and just check what you're eating; also, always read the labels. Do a week of a strict food diary and be completely honest with yourself about how many carbs you are taking in.

As for eating patterns - some people go for 3 meals a day; others graze, and eat maybe 5 smaller ones. It's whatever suits you best. I would always recommend breakfast; I have a 2-egg omelette cooked in butter every morning. This barely raises my blood glucose because it has minimim carbs. Fat doesn't affect blood glucose; about 20% of protein slowly turns into glucose and does affect your blood.

Finally; do give Metformin some consideration. I take 1 x 500g 3 times a day. It lowers the blood glucose by a little (1 or 2 mmol/l), works against insulin resistance and can suppress the appetite. It helps with weight loss. It also give some protection against stroke and CVD, and has recently been found to give some protection against some cancers. On the other hand, it can have side-effects - wind and upset stomach. This usually passes off quickly; if not, there is a slow release version which is gentler on the system.

This is completely your choice; no-one can make you take meds, but Metformin is in general a safe drug. If you decide to take it, make sure you go on to it gently - 1 a day for a week; then 2 a day for a week; and so on. Some people find that taking it in the middle of eating minimises side-effects. I had side-effects for a short time, but quickly got used to it and can now take it at any time.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get on.

Viv 8)

 

[vicky_l]

ok so swtiched back to eggs this morning for breakfast before I read this knew oats were bad idea I was having 40g of berries and either a small banana or 3 dried apricots but have stopped that now

chicken and mushroom soup was home made so no info on pack was whole chicken leg (minus skin) and half a pound mushrooms with one stock cube and herbs (did 4 meals)

today veg was again mushrooms and peas as in garden peas and chick pea curry (I know that beans and pulses are a no no but I cant afford me I live on £24 a week to cover food toiletries and cleaning products hence rather stuck as to know way forward because eating carbs gives me sore throats etc so looking at releasing some additional money just not sure where from right now as my income has been dropped by 52% this year so far

if I was eating my ideal I would be eating as follows

breakfast ~ 1 egg, 1 sausage or 2 bacon grilled with mushrooms

mid am ~ apple or pear and half a dozen nuts (15g) like brazils

lunch ~ fish and salad made from spinach celery and carrots

mid pm ~ handful of nuts/seeds (15g) and an apple or piece of cheese (30g)

dinner ~ steamed veggies and chicken or some other meat (veggies would vary asparagus, green beans, cauliflower etc)

dont know if that helps thats what I am trying to get back to

I gain on any carbs as well as feel totally shattered and physical side effects like sore throat/tongue glands up ear pain etc seems to only be with complex carbs and pulses/beans

not happy with metformin my sister lost a child on that drug caused problems and liver problems and I already have liver problems so I dont need additional impact on it esp as they cant operate on me if it were to get critical

Hope that helps you help me

thanks a lot ask more questions if you need to give me some info

thanks again

Vicky_l

 

[Finzi]

Vicki, I really feel for you on a limited food budget because since I have been diabetic I have spent much more on food . There may be way to include meat more cheaply, though, if you could fancy it: liver is very,very cheap (my husband loves it. He buys it for 30p and there is enough to feed him for two meals and the dog also). If you don't fancy liver, you could also try cheap cuts of beef from the butcher and cook them *really* slowly in a casserole type meal (we bought some beef shin the other day, the butcher told us to cook it for four hours). Fish is harder, but you can get smoked salmon trimmings in ASDA, fine for putting in scrambled eggs, can't remember exact price but in their Smart Price range, not very high. Or tins of tuna you can get fairly cheaply especially if there's a special offer.


Type 2 on Metformin, diagnosed Jan 2013, ultra low carber, Hba1C at diagnosis 8% (11mmol), now between 5 and 6 mmol. 13kg lost so far

 

[MCMLXXIII]

Vicki, I really feel for you on a limited food budget because since I have been diabetic I have spent much more on food . There may be way to include meat more cheaply, though, if you could fancy it: liver is very,very cheap (my husband loves it. He buys it for 30p and there is enough to feed him for two meals and the dog also). If you don't fancy liver, you could also try cheap cuts of beef from the butcher and cook them *really* slowly in a casserole type meal (we bought some beef shin the other day, the butcher told us to cook it for four hours). Fish is harder, but you can get smoked salmon trimmings in ASDA, fine for putting in scrambled eggs, can't remember exact price but in their Smart Price range, not very high. Or tins of tuna you can get fairly cheaply especially if there's a special offer.


Type 2 on Metformin, diagnosed Jan 2013, ultra low carber, Hba1C at diagnosis 8% (11mmol), now between 5 and 6 mmol. 13kg lost so far

YES YES YES OH YES THERE IS SOMEBODY ELSE IN THIS WORLD WHO USES SHIN BEEF!!!! THANKYOU:grin::grin::grin:

 

[vicky_l]

thank you Finzi and WOW you made MCMLXXIII a happy person well done

shin beef no idea not ever had but am sure will ask next time I order meat

as for liver yes I will eat liver have asked for it this week

also saw dietician today which helped but wow a lot to eat and not within budget

she wants me on 3 protein serves a day, 4 fruit, min 5 veg, 3 ozs nuts/seeds a day, 3 fat serves and 3 dairy min 2 =160g as lactose intolerant she thinks from my answers

definately not inside budget but am having to rethink otherwise I am not going to get better and then I wont be around so long

back to financial budget drawing board again later today after this morning program

shin beef def on list might call them today and see if too late to add to order for next week Thank you

Vicky_l

 

[viviennem]

Low budget is certainly a problem - I have to be careful, but not as low as you, and food is my main expense once bills are paid and a tank of fuel put in the car! Clothes come a poor 4th - good job I'm scruffy by nature! :lol:

The diet you call your ideal would suit me too - except too many nuts for me (I have no willpower and if they're in the house . . .!), and too much fruit. I don't even eat fruit every week.

Can you eat salad-y things once they are in season and cheaper? Or is there any chance you can grow any, even in big tubs? Root veg tend to be highest in carbs and above-ground lowest, with the obvious exception of eg sweet corn. Sweet potatoes aren't too bad, nor are lentils or chickpeas in small portions. I follow the Atkins list; I avoid peas and beans, but eat green beans; mostly I live on them with broccoli, cauliflower, leeks, courgettes and mushrooms. Occasionally I'll have a carrot.

I've had a vegetable stew 4 times this week- 1 large carrot, 1 onion, a fennel bulb, a stick of celery, a sweet potato (left over from Christmas :shock: - still okay), 1 tin tomatoes, 1 red pepper, 1 orange pepper, lots of mushrooms, 3 garlic cloves, pepper, mixed herbs and mixed spice. It's the sort of thing I might put red lentils in, too. Instead I oven-cooked 6 low-carb sausages at the same time and then bunged them in. It tasted quite sweet from the potato and the peppers, and was delicious!

If I buy a chicken I have it hot the first day, almost by itself sometimes; then I will make a 2-portion leek, courgette and mushroom casserole and have that twice, once with cold chicken and then with cold chicken mixed in to warm. By the time I've had a couple of salad lunches off it as well, it will have done me 5 or 6 meals. I buy big chickens! . Then stock for soup. I also stock up with turkey legs at Christmas - they often go quite cheaply, now many people don't want a whole bird, just a crown. I've got one defrosting now.

Can you get rabbit? One butcher round here (I'm in the middle of the country) does jointed wild rabbit for £2.50. At least 4 portions, it makes cheap meals. Or I can get a whole one, naked and empty, for the price of some cartridges, they are such a pest. I'm lucky enough to live next to a gamekeeper, who gives me the odd game bird which has been too mangled to be sold. He skins them for me and just gives me the "crown" - the 2 breasts on the bone. If your butcher sells venison, there is a good cheap cut called venison flank, which casseroles brilliantly and is so healthy! Shin beef is great, cooked long and slow it's very tender and thick. Goes well cooked with onions and lentils, or with shallots.

Did your dietitian say anything about which fruits? Plums and apricots are best for low-carb and low GI, followed by any berries - all of which are too expensive at this time of year. Some tinned fruit is okay, provided it's in juice not syrup, and you have small portions. I go for apricots, peaches and pears in tins - but not often, and small portions. Avoid oranges, grapes and pineapple - or try them and test 2 hours after eating, as different people can tolerate different things. I can cope with a small apple, and I have to confess that I do sometimes have a banana - a child-size or "fun-size" one, as they call them in Tesco. I buy sugar-free jellies - they aren't expensive and eke out the fruit.

I would hate to be lactose intolerant, so you have my sympathy. Do let us know what sort of "dairy" you're eating - I like sheep and goat cheese and yoghurt, but I suppose they must contain lactose too?

Anyway, at least the dietitcian is paying attention to your problems, which must be a relief in itself. Let us know how you go on.

Viv 8)

 

[MCMLXXIII]

I'm lovin this, on Bury market we have a fish and meat hall, you can get rabbit in there.:grin:

 

[vicky_l]

thanks lots of lovely ideas

I live in middle of no where

nearest shop is half mile away and I cant walk that far but its a corner shop well stocked and try to keep their prices down

went to farm shop couple miles away today on way back from weight management group bought food for a few days and now realised due to cost have to make it last a whole week could be interesting huh :-(

can eat apples pears bananas and coconut

celery carrots spinach cauliflower asparagus and green beans

any meat or fish but dark meats like the legs

nuts and seeds 3 oz a day (not in my budget I manage an ounce most days)

plus 40 min to 80g of cheese a day (yeah right)

today I had banana and pecan nuts for breakfast, lunch was pork ribs and some crackers (not meant to eat) and tonight was cheese and an apple (am hungry but tough)

oh well life goes on should lose more than I am a week but just over a lb loss is better than a gain

Vicky_l

 

[hanadr]

Ifyou are T2 on diet control only, you DON'T have to eat 3 meals a day if you don't feel like it.
It's as important what you eat as whenand how much. It sounds like you are trying to be low carb an doing it fairly well. Keeping to it will be good.
If your Doctor offers Metformin,don't worry. It's a very safe medicine, although it can upset some people's digestion.
Hana

 

[vicky_l]

thanks Hana

Its not just metformin I dont take any meds I use natural medicines for everything

am glad I dont need to eat three meals a day but then cant eat all dietician is sayin in a day unless constantly eating and definately not within my budget

have shopped today so next week sorted

breakfast smoothie with beetroot, berries and banana with flax and some other seeds in it for protein

lunch fish (got cheap smoked salmon) salad leaves and cucumber

dinner soup and some cheese

when fish runs out in 4 days will swap to meat

what I bought today was just under 24 so need to make it last 9 days so going to portion it out and make some veggies into soup so that is viable

I will overcome this financial limitation

Vicky_l

 

[viviennem]

You've got to be creative and also be willing to eat things twice or 3 times - unlike a friend of mine's husband who won't eat "leftovers" no matter what! :roll: .

Only one other thing to add - it is possible to eat too little. Your body can go into starvation mode and hang on to everything you give it, making it impossible to lose weight. I hate calorie counting, but you should be aiming to eat between 1200/1500 cals per day - I think. Anyone care to comment further on that?

Keep warm!

Viv 8)

 

[volaer]

Four keys: Diet, Exercise, Medication and Food Supplement. If you are really to lose weight, control carbo intake. If you are type 2, it will be easier for you to implement diet. For type 1, it will be harder for often times, sugar control is really in their insulin.

I strongly suggest that you take meds as what the doctor recommended. When you have lost some weight and you think it is already workable for you to maintain it without the meds, then you can probably do that. Again, do what the doctor said first and take control of blood sugar as soon as you can.

 

[lrw60]

Hi Vicky.
Best of luck with the dieting, it is worth the work involved. Do you exercise? I often used to see people who were far too large (my size) trying to run, it worried me because of the damage they could be doing to their joints and their hearts. I have arthritis in far too many joints to try running! but walking has worked very well, just don't forget that wherever you walk to, you have to walk back again. I joined a walking club with a friend and we used to walk with them once a week. We also walk around my friends village and on Portreath beach. Walking on sand is much harder work. I only joined this forum yesterday and I have already taken some of the advice on board. I had never been too concerned about my carb intake, being a vegi, carbs were a good source of energy for me. I am now lowering my carb intake to protect myself in the future. Instead of 60 grms of porage in the morning I am having 30g. Only 1 slice of bread with my evening meal, not 2. I had already cut down on rice and spuds, I will now take this a bit further. I appologise if all this sounds a bit me, me, me. I am just trying to help in the only way I know which is to tell you what works for me. My one true weakness is biscuits, I used to think it was chocolate, it isn't, it's bikkies! (3 a day, max, honest!)
Lee.

 

[vicky_l]

thanks Viv

yes I will eat things several days in a row and leftovers (they often end up tasting better than first meal) I know about the eating too little and it does concern me but I can only afford as much as the £16 a week allows unless like this week there is no need immediately for other things like toiletries etc so can spend the whole £24 on food

thanks volaer

I understand the concern about medication I am having the HbA1c repeated in June so if thats still too high will give in and take meds reluctantly

I take supplements and I am really trying to make the food I eat count nutritionally esp as budget so low and I am hoping that will pay off in the end

today I have had a homemade smoothie as planned and a good couple handfuls of almonds for breakfast planning a salad with smoked salmon for lunch and pork with mushrooms and courgette for dinner then for supper piece of camebert and an apple :!:

Vicky_l

 

[Mongoose39uk]

Liver is a good cheap option as suggested above. As is shin beef. If you like them tinned pilchards are pretty cheap.

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[vicky_l]

sorry Lee didnt see your reply earlier hadnt realised had got onto second page

you arent talking me me me as I see if just doing what you trying to do share what is working for you so I can take ideas from it and glean it for myself I cant eat porridge toast rice and potatoes regulary as I react to all of them and so I use them occasionally only these days esp as now have a dietician on nhs who accepts this to be the case but I cant afford what she suggest I need a day

yes Mongoose liver is good and on order for Thursday and asked for shin of beef but not sure if I will get that with order will have to wait and see what comes I like tinned fish except sardines so I have some tinned mackerel and tuna in but sadly they seem to be more expensive than the local bought smoked salmon I bought yesterday per serving which is totally nuts right :?: :!: :idea: :!:

I have a lot of food in that I can eat once a week like rice and beans and now have enough food in I hope to keep me going for some time except fresh fruit and veggies which is my favourite food although I love chocolate too

all this feedback is wonderful you have no idea how helpful and supportive I am finding it :clap: :thumbup:

thank you so much keep it coming

Vicky_l

 

[Lozzybabyw]

A couple of months ago I thought there was a connection between sugar &me falling asleep! I was falling asleep walking down the road& still sometimes:-/ I've tested my theory out over this time period.. It really DOES!! That's why being diabetic we feel tired a lot the sugar makes us sleepy not the other things like meds... I don't take any meds for my diabetes or test my blood sugar levels either, because my doctor says I don't need to as am borderline diabetic type 2.. I know I'm lucky, though this is a struggle for me as I eat healthy most of the time..


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