Have you cured or reversed type 2

[mpprh]

A recent post : viewtopic.php?f=52&t=7953&start=15#p360384

I am in the same position.

I have lost 22kg in 21 months and taken more exercise which has reduced my glucose levels. I had my metformin reduced to 2 X 500mg tablets per day for the last 6 months.

My fasting glucose reading is 75mg/dl to 90mg/dl (4.2mmol/l to 5.0mmol/l) and Hba1c has been 5.4 for the last 6 months.

My normal doctor was away and I saw a locum. He gave me the same prescription but suggested I reduce to 1 x 500mg tablet per day and monitor the results. He expects to see little difference, in which case he suggests I stop taking the tablets and monitor the results. He thinks it very likely I no longer need medication.

Now 40 days later (on one 500mg metformin) my fasting 7 day average is 89.6 ( 4.98) and today was 81(4.5). Immediately after reducing the meds I had a few odd days at 100 - 105 ( 5.5 to 5.8) but this has now stopped. I'll keep going on 1 tablet for a while and try to lose more weight before taking the next step of no medication.

Not cured, but going in the right direction.

 

[Wizzco]

NEWCASTLE PROGRAMME

I have not 'Cured' Type 2 Diabetes, but it is in Remission.

I discovered the Newcastle Experiment in June 2011, and read the research report. As I had just been told by my Consultant at Addenbrooke's that I had to go onto Insulin, I decided to ask if the Diet would help me, and if so, could I try it. My GP was doubtful, because of my CKD, but having read the Newcastle Report said I should put it to my Consultant. In January 2012 I had my scheduled appointment and took with me all the research papers. Following the standard system, I first saw the Dietician who was very strongly against it. She said I had to follow a low fat, heigh carbohydrate, balanced diet, with a gradual weight-loss. I then saw the Nephrologist Consultant who read the papers, asked questions, and went to talk to the Diabetic Consultant. I was asked to join them; my Diabetic Consultant told me she knew the Newcastle Professor, that the results were very interesting, and that I should try it, with supervision specified by the Nephrologist. This consisted of 4-weekly Blood tests of Kidney and Liver function via my GP. Progress was to be reviewed by the hospital Diabetic team in six months. It was, and I was allowed to continue, and still am on the Diet after more than a year now.
Today, I have never felt better. My HBA1C is <6, my BP is <130/<80, my kidney function is slowly improving, and I have lost >40KG. My body-fat percentage is, unfortunately still high at 40.8%. My aim is to reduce my Visceral Fat to a health level for my age, as it is now thought to affect natural Insulin resistance.
Last week I received a letter from my Diabetic Consultant saying "now your Diabetes is effectively 'in remission'" I was no longer to attend the Diabetic Clinic". The Nephrologist would continue to see me as part of his normal Nephrology Clinic. In short, Newcastle worked for me, with no significant side-effects at all. We are all different cases, of course. I am not trying to say that it is for everyone. But it has changed my life, halted organ damage, and increased significantly my life expectancy. It's easy to post comments stating a personal mantra - I see several of those replys and comments which remind me of the dogged opposition of that Dietican. All I have done is report my own history; I am willing, if it would help, to provide fuller information if asked. Good luck to you.
Wizzco.

 

[Yorksman]

Following the standard system, I first saw the Dietician who was very strongly against it. She said I had to follow a low fat, heigh carbohydrate, balanced diet, with a gradual weight-loss.

Roy Taylor describes his 'subjects' as "well motivated", as indeed many people on this forum are. I think the NHS regard their patients as not being motivated. When I asked my GP if he had heard of Taylor's team, he scornfully asked, 'well who's going to do that?"

I would at the very least have expected a 'well it's a tough regime but if you're willing to put yourself through it, I'd like to see it for myself". Whatever happened to the enquiring mind?

 

[minn]

Fairly typical reaction. My sister is type 1 and spent years struggling with her weight under a dietician who preached the high carb gospel. She's lost several stones since the lady in question retired, and vastly improved her control of her blood sugars. A friend was recently diagnosed with high blood pressure and given a prescription- when she asked about lifestyle changes, diet, exercise etc the GP who hardly knew her said "What's the point, you won't do it anyway, just take the tablets". She changed doctors, adjusted her diet not terribly drastically, started walking instead of using the car where practical and threw away the prescription. Her new doctor says her BP is now normal. The "one size fits all" approach drives me nuts. We are all individuals with different tolerances, not a load of machines.

 

[triksit]

I have had type 2 for 14 years. Fortunately I joined a forum immediately and got many good ideas. I had already realised by just using my metre that the diet suggested by the hospital was ridiculous. Except for a year's denial (too busy at work) about year 4, I have low carbed. I lost 40 kilos and my bs is pretty normal around 4.
I have gall stones now and had to go to hospital where they had me on nil by mouth for 6 days and a glucose drip. Day six I asked to check my bs which was 12 so i persuaded docs to let me go back onto real food and low carb. Next morning was back to 4.6. So though not cured, I responded well when back on decent diet. Fortunately, the meals manager was very keen to cooperate.
Gallstones run in my family and clearly too much fat has not worked for me. Though I have had to compensate for no fats with some more carbohydrate e.g. zero fat yoghurt, my morning bs has stayed around 4. Will get an hba1c in a couple of months which should give me a definitive figure.
I was allergic to metformin and have been diet and exercise the whole time ~(though you may have to pretend to take pills to get test strips in some areas).
If you look elsewhere on this forum there was discussion of a 600 calories a day as a cure for type two. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[sujeet]

When detected type -2, a year before, I was started with 2 x Tab Jalra M 500 (Vildagliptin + Metformin). However with increase in physical activity, my BS has stabilised around 85 mg Fasting and I am doing fine now with 2 x Plane Metformin 500. With such positive comments from so many friends, I wish to reduce Metformin 500 intake to once a day.

 

[sujeet]

diagonised with Type 2 a year ago. Initially started Tab Jalara M 500 ( Vildagliptin + Metformin) x 2. But with increase of physical activity and decreased BS levels. Now I am on plane Metformin 500 x 2 a day. But with reports of other friends of improvement I do hope to reverse Type 2.

 

[Australia28]

Hi

I am recently diagnosed Type2 and am exerimenting to see how to get off the medication
We would need to clarify what reversal means
I am looking for a scientist to collaborate with me. Youwould need a medical background and knowledge of diabetes lifecycle as the results will be circulated to journals and on my website
Let me know if you are interested
Francis

 

[Australia28]

I have found that exercise is really effective in taking the BG down providing you have a base level of fitness.

The best exercise to metabolise glucose is cycling and walking as the core and legs are activators of the fastest sugar exchange to the cells. After a carb rich meal and spiking to 10mmol after two hours, a 5km bike ride brings it down to 4.8. Now I cycle early morning and late at night to ensure the levels are right before I go to bed.
This is only my experience and everyone is different, but maybe this helps someone.

I don't know if it can be reversed, but it certainly makes you live a healthy lifestyle! I know that I don't want to go back to the way of life I had before; I was irritable, tired, and always in a kind of sleepy trance.

 

[Sunshine_Kisses]

Hi Australia28 - sounds like you're doing great - and loving that you're doing a study! I'm just curious - is there a reason that you've said you think walking is best, as opposed to running? I ask as I'm a recently diagnosed type 2 as well, and recently started running - but still very much experimenting!


Diagnosed Type 2, 22nd Feb 2013
Hba1c 7.5
Three month trial of managing through diet & exercise.
Low carb, pescatarian
Trying various supplements!

 

[Sunshine_Kisses]

Minn, BrianSky and Wizzco, loving reading your stories - very motivational!
It sounds like you all effectively 'shocked' your pancreas into working again - which as I understand it, is kind of the aim of the 5:2 or CR diets... Which I have been toying with for a little while now...

Minn & Wizzco, do you mind me asking if you're male or female? I'm asking as I've been reading a lot about 5:2 and CR, and came across a couple of studies that indicate that men and women respond very differently to it; men tend to 'reset' and do really well on it, where as the study showed that women things like insulin sensitivity often get worse and that it's really not all that fab for fertility/cycles etc... I'll see if I can find the link again, but very interested to know if there are women who had had as positive results as I've read many men have...?

BrainSky I'm wildly assuming you're male - my apologies if my assumption is incorrect :-D


Diagnosed Type 2, 22nd Feb 2013
Hba1c 7.5
Three month trial of managing through diet & exercise.
Low carb, pescatarian
Trying various supplements!

 

[minn]

Female, early 50s. I already had my 3 children when diagnosed, so I can't help you on the fertility thing!

 

[Sunshine_Kisses]

Haha, thank you! Well good to know it helped your blood sugars reset though... I've yet to have children (and would like to!) so will see if I can find out more about the fertility thing...

 

[Yorksman]

I have found that exercise is really effective in taking the BG down providing you have a base level of fitness.

A large amount has been published in the peer literature on this subject. As you indicate that you are wanting to study the area, you may find the following from PubMed, "Exercise and insulin sensitivity: a review." Borghouts et al 2000 a useful starting point. The abstract reads as follows:

"Physical activity has a beneficial effect on insulin sensitivity in normal as well as insulin resistant populations. A distinction should be made between the acute effects of exercise and genuine training effects. Up to two hours after exercise, glucose uptake is in part elevated due to insulin independent mechanisms, probably involving a contraction-induced increase in the amount of GLUT4 associated with the plasma membrane and T-tubules. However, a single bout of exercise can increase insulin sensitivity for at least 16 h post exercise in healthy as well as NIDDM subjects. Recent studies have accordingly shown that acute exercise also enhances insulin stimulated GLUT4 translocation. Increases in muscle GLUT4 protein content contribute to this effect, and in addition it has been hypothesized that the depletion of muscle glycogen stores with exercise plays a role herein. Physical training potentiates the effect of exercise on insulin sensitivity through multiple adaptations in glucose transport and metabolism. In addition, training may elicit favourable changes in lipid metabolism and can bring about improvements in the regulation of hepatic glucose output, which is especially relevant to NIDDM. It is concluded that physical training can be considered to play an important, if not essential role in the treatment and prevention of insulin insensitivity."

Later studies suggest that 1500 kcals of resistance exercise distributed evenly throughout the week works best for improving insulin sensitivity, the peak benefit lasting for 12 hours. Because the benefit is accumulative, I tend to do 3 ten min sessions per day, 1 hour after meals, each of about 80 kcal.

Whilst additional exercise will have other benefits such as improved cardio vascular function, the 1500 kcal regime, evenly spread, maximises the insulin sensitivity, at least according to the research.

 

[robertconroy]

People still don't get the cause of type 2 is insulin abuse, plain and simple. Your cells know excessive insulin is toxic to the cells and down regulates how much insulin can get into the cells. This creates insulin resistance and eventually diabetes. Make no mistake about it, all grains and especially wheat, is the problem. Wheat is the highest glycemic food we eat other than dried fruit. Just quit eating grains and see what happens to your waistline and your A1C. Grains were our downfall, that's why the Paleo diet isthe best diet possible - no grains. If yor doctor says to just eat more whole grains, find another doctor...Read The Easy GL Diet Handbook by Dr. Fedon Alexander Lindberg and save yourself from bad nutritional advice and get your life back.

 

[Yorksman]

People still don't get the cause of type 2 is insulin abuse, plain and simple. Your cells know excessive insulin is toxic to the cells and down regulates how much insulin can get into the cells. This creates insulin resistance and eventually diabetes.

That's partially true but not the whole picture. This is Roy Taylor's explanation, Professor of Medicine and Metabolism:

"Insulin resistance in muscle, caused by inherited and environmental factors, facilitates the development of fatty liver during positive energy balance. Once established, the increased insulin secretion required to maintain plasma glucose levels will further increase liver fat deposition. Fatty liver causes resistance to insulin suppression of hepatic glucose output as well as raised plasma triacylglycerol. Exposure of beta cells to increased levels of fatty acids, derived from circulating and locally deposited triacylglycerol, suppresses glucose-mediated insulin secretion. This is reversible initially, but eventually becomes permanent. The essential time sequence of the pathogenesis of type 2 diabetes is now evident. Muscle insulin resistance determines the rate at which fatty liver progresses, and ectopic fat deposition in liver and islet underlies the related dynamic defects of hepatic insulin resistance and beta cell dysfunction."

Whilst reducing carbohydrate intake will reduce the stresses on someone with the disease, it won't unblock the stored fats. That requires targetted loss of fats, ie in the pancreas and liver and how to target the fat in those areas is not easy. Severe calorie restriction looks like the best method at the moment.

 

[Australia28]

Very interesting comments; I will look up the Newcastle Diet and the Pubmed review. I have switched to multigrain or I make my own bread now as it enables low release of carbs in to the bloodstream.

My version of the big D is the insulin resistant type. I am looking at changing four things to regulate (or potentially reverse) the condition. They are Diet, Stress, Exercise and Illness. Each of these has an impact on BG levels and I think that a holistic view is the most productive approach so here is my take on each of them.

I changed the stress level by resigning from my job (I didn't know at the time that I was diabetic!) and have had the luxury of 4 months at home to take stock and develop a strategy to manage the condition. Diet - I use the measured plate approach ie 50% veggies, 25% carbs 25% protein and keeping the glycaemic load within range. Exercise - I have discovered that the action is below the waistline and as Yorksman points out, it needs to be of a certain kind to bring down the BG level. Too much workout in the gym creates stress and that releases glucose into the blood that pushes the level up. I discovered that great though swimming is for the cardiovascular system, it doesn't have much impact on a high BG level. Illness - regular eating of the right foods, exercise and good sleep is my first line of defence.

Considering that I didn't give a care for any of these factors before January 2013 I have made a pretty drastic lifestyle change but I do at the moment have the luxury of planning and time on my side. I am really trying to develop a system that can be used in a busy work environment where you get the early morning, midday and a bit of the evening to exercise and back that up with a controlled diet. I am looking for the DESI sweet spot (will that catch on?)
After my last Hba1c I got good results so I stopped the meds and am testing whether this strategy works.
Thanks for your insights and good luck everyone

Australia28

 

[stuffedolive]

Too much workout in the gym creates stress and that releases glucose into the blood that pushes the level up.

I wouldn't dismiss this. I had read (sorry I cant lay my hands on the paper just now) that the development of lean muscle mass has a positive impact on insulin response and was shown to be better for diabetics than cardio-vasclular exercise. I'm sure there is someone on here qualified to enlighten us further on this?

 

[Thommothebear]

Whilst reducing carbohydrate intake will reduce the stresses on someone with the disease, it won't unblock the stored fats. That requires targetted loss of fats, ie in the pancreas and liver and how to target the fat in those areas is not easy. Severe calorie restriction looks like the best method at the moment.

Interesting - any guidelines on what is meant by "severe" calorie restriction? I'm calorie counting and aiming for around 1250 net calories at the moment, I am coping fairly well at that level and not feeling hungry but I'm not sure I would feel so comfortable at a lower level.

 

[Yorksman]

Very interesting comments; I will look up the Newcastle Diet and the Pubmed review.

have a look at the Mag Res page that Taylor set up for this study. Magnetic Resonance is the method they use for quantifying the abdominal fats. The page has all the links pertinent for this study:

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/

You'll notice that there are two projects of study which will be of interest to you:

Increased physical activity and glucose control: Developing a framework for clinical application in Type 2 diabetes.

The effect of exercise on metabolism and liver lipid in people with Type 2 Diabetes.

As and when work is published in these two areas, the titles will appear lower down on the page.