Low carb diets and Diabetes UK

[tonyS54]

The whole point of my posts is there is no way to live on a low carb diet.

Low carb high fat diet, as a lot seem to think that's what low carb must be without any other option.
Or is it low carb high protein, or all the other versions like paleo, that are equally low carb?

They can't accept just LC, as it's a meaningless phrase, and needs to be defined.
Otherwise "low carb" is just as lacking in evidence.

Again read the title of the thread Low carb diets and Diabetes UK, it's not a meaningless phrase at all, be it high fat, high protein or paleo their all "low carb"

 

[douglas99]

Seems to be going round in circles here and getting nowhere fast. Nobody can catagorically state exactly what a low carb diet is. We all eat and like different food. We really should be trying to push and encourage reducing carbs, not defining the diet. How long is a piece of string ? How long should everybody exercise for exactly ? Is it 30g of carbs for someone who weighs 8stone as well as someone who weighs 28stone ? Pointless !


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

That sounds better, but you have to remember the website we're talking about is where someone with no idea of what's happened to them would go to first looking for advice.
So if the regular low carbers can't even define what low carb is for someone else, and no one appears to have done so, I agree then the best advice is eat less carbs, but the poor unfortunate still won't know what to eat instead.
So what wording could DUK put on their website if even we can't define what the diet should be?

But you're right, it's going in circles, so I'll agree, simply "eat low carb", and we should lobby DUK to replace their dietary advice with that.

 

[fatbird]

Douglas may I respectfully suggest you stop digging a hole to disappear into. You are steaming around the forum like a man on fire and getting nowhere. Give it a rest. You are talking complete bo***cks.

FB

 

[xyzzy]

Seems to be going round in circles here and getting nowhere fast. Nobody can catagorically state exactly what a low carb diet is. We all eat and like different food. We really should be trying to push and encourage reducing carbs, not defining the diet. How long is a piece of string ? How long should everybody exercise for exactly ? Is it 30g of carbs for someone who weighs 8stone as well as someone who weighs 28stone ? Pointless !


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

Totally and absolutely agree 100%

Hiding behind definitions of what low carb is in terms of percentage breakdowns really is scraping the barrel Douglas.

What DUK should be doing is exactly what the ADA & Swedes do which is to individualise treatment while pointing out some amount of carbohydrate reduction is inevitable for most people.

I'll turn the question around. What exact hclf dietary percentages have been found to be safe? Come on give me the exact percentages and prove to me you or others follow them religiously day in day out. See its a totally pointless argument and designed just to obfuscate the real issue.

All you are doing is confusing people who need to find what regime will work for them to keep them safe and healthy. Shame on you.

You come over as a total fanatic.

 

[mo1905]

All DUK need to state is that reducing your intake of carbs will improve BG readings ! It's not rocket science ! Everybody knows what "reducing" means surely. Far easier to understand, especially with newly diagnosed.

 

[fatbird]

Well said Mo-the BG meter never lies and points the way to good control.

FB

 

[Yorksman]

I have been searching for a zero calorie diet for years-just think of the money we could save.

I think the closest you can get is a handful of grains and a glass of water if you spend your days in contemplation in a Zen monastary. Whilst some sects forbid all meat and fish some Buddhist sects even forbid their monks from harming plants.

Someone ought to do a study into CHD and Diabetes amonst these various monastic communities for the purposes of comparison.

 

[paul-1976]

All DUK need to state is that reducing your intake of carbs will improve BG readings ! It's not rocket science ! Everybody knows what "reducing" means surely. Far easier to understand, especially with newly diagnosed.

Absolutely agree Mo and the 'high fat' part of LCHF does not mean 'Gorging' on lard and bacon or protein-it just means not fearing the naturally occuring sat fats in fresh produce and using olive oil,butter etc instead of highly processed 'Frankenfats' for cooking-no percentages needed-it works well for me and countless others without a 'set in stone' level...I don't count fat,calories or protein-only worry about how many carbs I consume.

 

[Yorksman]

Nobody can catagorically state exactly what a low carb diet is.

Or indeed a palaeolitic diet. Homo Neanderthalis died out altogether and there were dramatic population crashes with Homo Sapiens Sapiens in europe between the end of the Palaeolithic and the onset of the Mesolithic, also a hunter gatherer lifestyle and again at the end of the Mesolithic and the onset of the Neolithic, when farming started.

We are particularly rich with mesolithic sites in the Yorkshire Pennines but most of the food evidence in places like Marsden Moor is in the form of charred hazelnut shells, not animal bones.

"Critical debates include:
• The relative focus of subsistence on large game or ‘smaller package’resources such as nuts."

(Palaeolithic & Mesolithic West Yorkshire, Penny Spikins)

 

[popsy]

Absolutely agree Mo and the 'high fat' part of LCHF does not mean 'Gorging' on lard and bacon or protein-it just means not fearing the naturally occurring sat fats in fresh produce and using olive oil,butter etc instead of highly processed 'Frankenfats' for cooking-no percentages needed-it works well for me and countless others without a 'set in stone' level...I don't count fat,calories or protein-only worry about how many carbs I consume.

Yahoo!! Sense and sanity at last, even I can understand that! Thanks Paul

 

[fatbird]

I think the closest you can get is a handful of grains and a glass of water if you spend your days in contemplation in a Zen monastary. Whilst some sects forbid all meat and fish some Buddhist sects even forbid their monks from harming plants.

Someone ought to do a study into CHD and Diabetes amonst these various monastic communities for the purposes of comparison.

My real name is Zane, chuck everything out of your lounge other than a 90" LCD TV, set to Sky sports, a soft leather recliner and a beer fridge. Get your partner down the shops or in the kitchen, or cleaning your golf clubs. Only exceptions another fridge full of low carb snacks.

Sounds good to me-but what do I know?

FB

 

[IanD]

After 7 1/2 years of the NHS/DUK diet, I went "low carb" & the resulting complications. I stopped eating bread, potatoes, etc. The improvement was rapid, & permanent. I did not start with research or definitions - I cut out the obvious carbs, while eating more of other foods.

PLEEEEEEZ stop confusing the issue & return to the thread topic. The whole question of how to deal with the bad DUK diet recommendation (45% carb) is the thread topic.

Phoenix & Douglas have given links showing the confusion of meta-analysis. I have given links that indicate that DUK are less than honest in their reporting - as the OP found.

I submit that the simple TRUTH about low carb is that everyone who has reduced their carb consumption has benefited, without health complications.

 

[fatbird]

How hard do you want it Ian? I have reduced BG from highly dangerous to non diabetic. Reduced weight drastically. Lipid profile of a teenage kid, no statins. Medication two metformin pills a day. Carbs 50 per day. Medical profession says “if it works for you stay with it” Do they recommend to others? no way. The guidelines must be adhered to, never mind the countless early deaths, amputations and blindness.

Big respect for you Ian.

FB

 

[Unbeliever]

Quite right Ian. Sam spent much time and effort trying to get Duk to hsift its posiion . Congratulations to him for achieving some movement re th!s.
As he and others before him have discovered,however, there iis no chance of similar concessions for T2

It must be remebered that no one ever asked for, or expected, DUK to endorse a long term ketogenic diet for all..
It would be considered a major victory by most of us if DUK endorsed the advice now given {unofficially} by many doctors and nurses about rediucing carbs.
We may not know what the longterm effects of a low carb diet may be but many of us, including myself , know only too well,what the consequencesof adopting the offficial advice can be.
This is not a purely academic discussion. It is about lives and limbs and eyes. DO people really want to deprive others of theset hings just to score points on a a forum.?
Much of the controversy about lowcarning is hysteria. We are talking in most cases aout a reduction in starchy carbs.
Does anyone have the right to deprive others of a small but vital piece of information which could massively impact on their lives.?
Is i really such a dreadful thing to mention to the newly diagnosed that many find a reduced carb diet very helpful?
I really don't understand Douglas'' earlier comment about not being able to live on a low carb diet.. This forum must therefore be home to a lot of dead posters . Surely we are not being accused of lying?

 

[fatbird]

Quite right Ian. Sam spent much time and effort trying to get Duk to hsift its posiion . Congratulations to him for achieving some movement re th!s.
As he and others before him have discovered,however, there iis no chance of similar concessions for T2

It must be remebered that no one ever asked for, or expected, DUK to endorse a long term ketogenic diet for all..
It would be considered a major victory by most of us if DUK endorsed the advice now given {unofficially} by many doctors and nurses about rediucing carbs.
We may not know what the longterm effects of a low carb diet may be but many of us, including myself , know only too well,what the consequencesof adopting the offficial advice can be.
This is not a purely academic discussion. It is about lives and limbs and eyes. DO people really want to deprive others of theset hings just to score points on a a forum.?
Much of the controversy about lowcarning is hysteria. We are talking in most cases aout a reduction in starchy carbs.
Does anyone have the right to deprive others of a small but vital piece of information which could massively impact on their lives.?
Is i really such a dreadful thing to mention to the newly diagnosed that many find a reduced carb diet very helpful?
I really don't understand Douglas'' earlier comment about not being able to live on a low carb diet.. This forum must therefore be home to a lot of dead posters . Surely we are not being accused of lying?

"I really don't understand Douglas'' earlier comment about not being able to live on a low carb diet.. This forum must therefore be home to a lot of dead posters . Surely we are not being accused of lying?"

Don't worry about Douglas, he is a very confused man.

FB

 

[Maryannonsilk]

If i hadnt come across the LowCarb Forum here and Paleo then i believe I'd be battling ... No i would be distraught ...
Doc says ...'keep it up cos its working for YOU'
Didn't need to lose weight so he cant point to weight loss ... I was a vegetarian for 12 years prior to the diagnosis ...Ugh!
I put the improved numbers down to Rock n Roll and LowCarb ...BeBopALuLa!
HBA1c 5.8 Sept 2013
From
HBA1c 7.7 April 2010
Metformin when i think i need it ....

 

[douglas99]

Quite right Ian. Sam spent much time and effort trying to get Duk to hsift its posiion . Congratulations to him for achieving some movement re th!s.
As he and others before him have discovered,however, there iis no chance of similar concessions for T2

It must be remebered that no one ever asked for, or expected, DUK to endorse a long term ketogenic diet for all..
It would be considered a major victory by most of us if DUK endorsed the advice now given {unofficially} by many doctors and nurses about rediucing carbs.
We may not know what the longterm effects of a low carb diet may be but many of us, including myself , know only too well,what the consequencesof adopting the offficial advice can be.
This is not a purely academic discussion. It is about lives and limbs and eyes. DO people really want to deprive others of theset hings just to score points on a a forum.?
Much of the controversy about lowcarning is hysteria. We are talking in most cases aout a reduction in starchy carbs.
Does anyone have the right to deprive others of a small but vital piece of information which could massively impact on their lives.?
Is i really such a dreadful thing to mention to the newly diagnosed that many find a reduced carb diet very helpful?
I really don't understand Douglas'' earlier comment about not being able to live on a low carb diet.. This forum must therefore be home to a lot of dead posters . Surely we are not being accused of lying?

Can't answer that for you.
No one has managed to state what a low carb diet actually is yet.
It's just a buzz word to mean a lot of things by the look of it.
The phrase eat less carbs so far means any new poster can eat fat, or eat protein, or just leave out the carbs and low cal.
If's that's what you mean, say it.
If it isn't say what you do.
Actually give a bit of advice as to what to eat, not what people can't eat.

 

[Maryannonsilk]

Ive learnt so much here ...i can make my DN's eyes glaze over by quoting you all ...
She agrees with me just to get me out of the room i think LOL

 

[tonyS54]

Seems to be going round in circles here and getting nowhere fast. Nobody can catagorically state exactly what a low carb diet is. We all eat and like different food. We really should be trying to push and encourage reducing carbs, not defining the diet. How long is a piece of string ? How long should everybody exercise for exactly ? Is it 30g of carbs for someone who weighs 8stone as well as someone who weighs 28stone ? Pointless !


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

And that’s the problem with DUK , it’s a one size fits all diet no matter your build, activity levels, disabilities or most importantly your daily calorie requirements the ratio of carbs remains the same.

 

[Unbeliever]

"I really don't understand Douglas'' earlier comment about not being able to live on a low carb diet.. This forum must therefore be home to a lot of dead posters . Surely we are not being accused of lying?"

Don't worry about Douglas, he is a very confused man.

FB

Someone ought to worry about him .