Low carb diets and Diabetes UK

[douglas99]

which is where we tell them no? you tell them but you explain that you also avoid fat which is where their choices come in, but the message of eat less carbs is the same, some wont want to, some wont be able to, thats all fine but they will have been given the knowledge that its a good way of control which is what they are asking for

i wished i was able to articulate it better

I usually list what I eat, usually as a day, with the snacks with the proviso that I'm on a low fat calorie controlled diet, and eat carbs to my meter, and usually that I intend to introduce some unsaturated fat to maintain weight eventually.
But I remember when I was diagnosed, I did find it difficult to plan a diet, and meals for a day, it took me a long while to work it out.

 

[douglas99]

This is going off the thread though, so I'm leaving it back to the DUK discussion, maybe it's worth considering a low carb guide to a days meal plan, or lifestyle diet as a guide in the low carb forum, then there will be a solid diet to present to DUK, and newbies.

 

[IanD]

Douglas - you obviously have done far more research than DUK to be able to say:

Not everyone knows what a carb is.
A lot get confused, lose heart, fall off the wagon, but I reckon most simply don't know what they can eat, and telling them what they can't will never work for them.

Please give your peer reviewed paper as to who "a lot" & "most" are in the forum we have confused by advising "low carb." You will find "a lot" & "most" come to the forum confused by the advice given by their dietitians & nurses, & consider the advice given here is clear,& helpful & beneficial.

You are doing your very best to confuse the whole diet question. You made some helpful contributions a few pages ago, but your recent postings are, frankly, unhelpful & distracting.

 

[Andy12345]

will the guide say to eat fat? lol, because it should imo

 

[douglas99]

Probably, but at the risk of causing offense, I'm lifting this off another thread, in response to a query about BG rising in the morning, after a poster has put up their day's menu.

You may need to cut out the couscous. May I suggest a higher fat intake? That might do the trick. Good quality fats like olive oil, butter, lard and coconut oil, all of them preferably organic. If you cut out carbs you need to substitute them with fat.
What about eggs for breakfast?

Maybe you do need fats, but how many, and what with?
And they're new low carbers, so if they're not eating fat they need, obviously the concept of low carb has been mis-understiood.

Personally, the diet looks closer to mine, which is low cal, so maybe there's a reason it's low fat as well.

 

[mo1905]

If people have managed to find this forum, create a user name and password, post a question, read the answer, surely they can then Google "low carb foods" or "low carb alternatives" or similar ! It's not difficult.


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[Daibell]

Douglas, I don't think you quite understand what most of the other posters are saying. I always say to obviously overweight posters or any that have control problems with blood sugar to 'reduce their carbs'. I never say go on a low-carb diet or go on ANY diet. There is no need to go on 'A Diet' just reduce carbs to the extent necessary for the meter to show you have come into the right region. This seems quite obvious to me and many others and hence you don't need to define what low-carb means. For those Newbies who have no idea where they are on this I may suggest starting at 150gm max but that is purely to give them some idea of the area they should be in i.e. not the typical 300gm/day. So if DUK wants some wording I would find it quite easy to do it e.g start from a normal healthy diet but with reduced carbs. I might list what carb foods actually are and I might show a revised Eat Well Plate with a smaller pie slice for carbs. I would ban the use of the word 'starch' as in the context of diabetes treatment it has no useful meaning.

 

[fatbird]

Can we take it as read douglas has demonstrated the effects and perils of a low fat diet.

FB

 

[douglas99]

If people have managed to find this forum, create a user name and password, post a question, read the answer, surely they can then Google "low carb foods" or "low carb alternatives" or similar ! It's not difficult.


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Very true
Low carb foods.
google

http://authoritynutrition.com/low-carb-diet-meal-plan-and-menu/

Maybe Eat

If you’re healthy, active and don’t need to lose weight then you can afford to eat a bit more carbs.

• Tubers: Potatoes, sweet potatoes and some others.
• Non-gluten grains: Rice, oats, quinoa and many others.
• Legumes: Lentils, black beans, pinto beans, etc. (If you can tolerate them)

So, now it's back to the definition of healthy, apart from being diabetic, and knowing the score, I'm fine,

 

[douglas99]

Douglas, I don't think you quite understand what most of the other posters are saying. I always say to obviously overweight posters or any that have control problems with blood sugar to 'reduce their carbs'. I never say go on a low-carb diet or go on ANY diet. There is no need to go on 'A Diet' just reduce carbs to the extent necessary for the meter to show you have come into the right region. This seems quite obvious to me and many others and hence you don't need to define what low-carb means. For those Newbies who have no idea where they are on this I may suggest starting at 150gm max but that is purely to give them some idea of the area they should be in i.e. not the typical 300gm/day. So if DUK wants some wording I would find it quite easy to do it e.g start from a normal healthy diet but with reduced carbs. I might list what carb foods actually are and I might show a revised Eat Well Plate with a smaller pie slice for carbs. I would ban the use of the word 'starch' as in the context of diabetes treatment it has no useful meaning.

So let's do it on here, start a list in the low carb forum, just keeping to actual food lists, for people that want to eat low carb, healthy foods.
If we keep opinions out, from both sides, it'll be an excellent guide.

(says diet in the title of this thread by the way)

 

[mo1905]

I think deep down Douglas you understand but perhaps you won't settle until someone can give you the perfect diabetic diet but I'm afraid it doesn't exist.
Mo


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[fatbird]

douglas what are you on? I might try it at the weekend.

FB

 

[douglas99]

I think deep down Douglas you understand but perhaps you won't settle until someone can give you the perfect diabetic diet but I'm afraid it doesn't exist.
Mo


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I'd like to give others the perfect diet, and it is unsettling to see what some new posters consider high fat means to them. Then again, it's also unsettling to see what low carb means, both from still eating white bread, to zero carbs at all.

 

[mo1905]

I'd like to give others the perfect diet, and it is unsettling to see what some new posters consider high fat means to them. Then again, it's also unsettling to see what low carb means, both from still eating white bread, to zero carbs at all.

But you can't give others the perfect diet. I feel your frustration and I'm sure you only want to help but what works for you won't work for everyone. There are plenty of diabetics who drink, smoke, take drugs etc. Some people are just more disciplined than others. People want some friendly guidance, not hard and fast rules. We live in an internet age where answers are so readily available. Just advising people to reduce carbs is the best advice we can offer. Apart from that, let them choose. If they really don't know about carbs or alternatives, they'll ask, and they do !


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[noblehead]

I'd like to give others the perfect diet, and it is unsettling to see what some new posters consider high fat means to them. Then again, it's also unsettling to see what low carb means, both from still eating white bread, to zero carbs at all.

I wasn't going to comment on this thread again as it's gone way of track from it's original purpose, however I thought I'd comment on the above Douglas.

I believe low-carb means different things to different people, it's hard to pinpoint what exactly is a low-carb diet as some will say it's below 30g as where others will say it's 50g and others below 100g, some may say if they are eating 100-200g a day they are technically low-carbing as it's below what is recommended for the average man and woman, so as you can see the term is very difficult to define as there's many interpretations.

One way you could look at it is you have low, medium and high as you do in some food ratings, so if high carbs is 300g then 200g is medium carb and consequently 100g of carbs is low-carb, simplified YES but again you'll never get a straight answer.

 

[fatbird]

I think we can summarize this thread. DUK do not recommend a low carb diet because it would cost their sponsors i.e. big pharma a huge amount of money. If DUK recommended a low carb diet they would lose many of their sponsors. DUK stick to established guidelines because it is safe and keeps away any chance of litigation. Their dietary advice is decades out of date and is contrary to so many of the members of this forums experience. The DUK dietary advice is wrong, dangerous, and scientifically illiterate.

FB

 

[Yorksman]

It's not rocket science !

Can be.

Send your pancreas into space.

 

[xyzzy]

I see what you're getting at Douglas but like Andy says newly diagnosed people need a simple message.

On here and other forums my advice to newly diagnosed people has been to try and cut out sugar, and reduce starchy foods like rice, pasta, bread, potatoes, cereals and other foods made from flour then replace with meat, eggs, cheese and especially green vegetables.

Plus of course get a meter and test and try and be under 8 two hours after eating.

So no mention of carbs, fat, protein. If a person wants to then learn about those things that's up to them but simple plain start out advise is surely what's required and that is what DUK avoids saying.

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[catherinecherub]

Douglas,
You want people to put together a perfect diet. It is not possible. People have likes and dislikes, other health problems that limit what they can eat, they may or may not be physically active, take other medications that affect their blood sugars, be elderly and live alone without the motivation to cook, etc.... There is no perfect diet, only a diet that suits the individual and keeps their blood sugars at a reasonable level.

 

[douglas99]

I see what you're getting at Douglas but like Andy says newly diagnosed people need a simple message.

On here and other forums my advice to newly diagnosed people has been to try and cut out sugar, and reduce starchy foods like rice, pasta, bread, potatoes, cereals and other foods made from flour then replace with meat, eggs, cheese and especially green vegetables.

Plus of course get a meter and test and try and be under 8 two hours after eating.

So no mention of carbs, fat, protein. If a person wants to then learn about those things that's up to them but simple plain start out advise is surely what's required and that is what DUK avoids saying.

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I don't think you know how bad my former diet was then. That was exactly what I did.
By doing that I probably ended up where DUK is now
I'm not saying that's right for me now, and I have made my own choice to move on, or I would have been healthy on a DUK diet, but I certainly did reduce carbs to the level on there from a much higher one.