Low carb diets harmful, the science.

[Indy51]

Don't shoot the messenger here please. Scientific analysis and data is our best chance to understand what different foods and diets do to us, a group that are more susceptible to health problems. I will admit that the low carb thing has never seemed sensible to me but with this evidence will anyone be rethinking their decision?

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/low...ILY&utm_term=0_40f9e497d1-020d1cfd0e-23476477

Will you rethink your views on how healthy vegetarian diets are after reading this scientific paper?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3917888/

Despite having lower BMIs and drinking less alcohol, vegetarians have "poorer health (higher incidences of cancer, allergies, and mental health disorders), a higher need for health care and poorer quality of life."

 

[ItalianKitten]

Despite having lower BMIs and drinking less alcohol, vegetarians have "poorer health (higher incidences of cancer, allergies, and mental health disorders), a higher need for health care and poorer quality of life."

This makes me a little sad, but thanks for posting it.
I'm not vegetarian because I think it's better for me, I just can't eat animals.
All I can do is to eat as well as possible and hope for the best.

 

[Indy51]

Sorry if I offended ItalianKitten - I was being a bit sarky with the original poster. Health is so individual that it's a minefield when people make blanket statements about which diets work for everyone - it's absolute nonsense, yet people still insist on claiming it. I really look forward to the day when dietitians can individually prescribe diets for us based on our personal genetics and heritage. One size fits all is a big mistake.

 

[ItalianKitten]

Sorry if I offended ItalianKitten.

Absolutely not! Please, don't think that. That's why I thanked you for posting that study.
I'm aware that being vegetarian might not be the best possible regime, but I don't have a choice.
Nonetheless, I like to know more about it, and maybe find other ways of being healthier.
Hiding the head in the sand isn't my style, and I like to keep an open dialogue about this subject.
So, once again, thank you for adding to my knowledge about nutrition. All is well

 

[jack412]

LC probably is harmful, just not as harmful as HC is for me.
also when they say LC they actually mean high protein low fat, low carb and I haven't seen anyone recommend that

 

[Scandichic]

I just avoid sugar in all it's many forms! Guess that would be carbs then! I am still confused as to why a diabetic would choose to eat carbs which convert to sugar and release more sugar into my blood strea raising my bs levels which is the very thing I've been given metformin for in order to lower my bs levels. This includes slow release carbs. When I pointed this out to the consultant he told me that I needed energy. As did the dn at the hospital. I then made the point that fat was an alternative energy source which didn't increase bs levels. I was told that this is the wrong energy. No further elaboration. However I have been asked to attend the diabetes education course about eating. Despite halving bs levels and losing 1.5 stones in weight!

 

[ItalianKitten]

I then made the point that fat was an alternative energy source which didn't increase bs levels. I was told that this is the wrong energy. No further elaboration.

Almost verbatim what I was told, in an ominous voice. The wrong kind of energy...
What is that supposed to mean exactly? I'm still waiting for a good explanation.
I've been on the "wrong kind of energy" for three months and I feel great. Why?
Fat is stored energy, which the body keeps aside for later use, when needed.
How can it be wrong to use it, when that happens to be its exact purpose?

 

[IanD]

I had a surprise invitation to the Ealing "Diabetes & Health" meeting in Southall last Saturday. I finished my 3 sets of tennis early, bought a new lawnmower, & got to the meeting. Apart from one of the leaders, I was the only white English person there.

On arrival I had a choice, fruit juice or water, & biscuits or lollipops.

Lots of questions were raised by the 40-50 people attending, including "Please explain carbohydrates." Time did not allow that question to be addressed. One participant in a wheelchair asked me afterwards.

After the meeting a meal was provided - chicken curry, 2 lots of rice, chapattis & salad.

Well, the DUK food guidelines do recommend up to 42 tabelspoons of rice daily.

5-14 portions. One-third of your diet ....
What's a portion? 1 slice of bread.... 2-3 tbsp rice ....

So 10-42 tbsp rice daily - there's a challenge that even Indians might have problems with !!

Useful meeting that highlighted the need & desire for structured education. I spoke to the consultants afterwards, exchanged emails & she wants to come with me to the Hounslow group which has been running for years.

Next meeting May 10th.

I'll start a new thread with this.

 

[ItalianKitten]

It sounds very interesting, IanD. I look forward to reading more about this.
Although I had to smile at the wonderful refreshments on offer.
Fruit juice, biscuits, and lollipops are traditional diabetic food

As for the recommended portions of carbs, that's madness, I wasn't eating that many carbs before I was diagnosed.
I found myself sitting in front of my GP telling me I was diabetic, and that I needed to stuff myself with grains and fruit.
Essentially I had too much glucose in the blood, so I had to sharply increase the consumption of glucose making food.
What fresh hell is this, I thought. Have I become the subject of a secret culling project of diabetic people? Bizarre.

 

[Indy51]

It sounds very interesting, IanD. I look forward to reading more about this.
Although I had to smile at the wonderful refreshments on offer.
Fruit juice, biscuits, and lollipops are traditional diabetic food

As for the recommended portions of carbs, that's madness, I wasn't eating that many carbs before I was diagnosed.
I found myself sitting in front of my GP telling me I was diabetic, and that I needed to stuff myself with grains and fruit.
Essentially I had too much glucose in the blood, so I had to sharply increase the consumption of glucose making food.
What fresh hell is this, I thought. Have I become the subject of a secret culling project of diabetic people? Bizarre.

I know exactly what you mean - I sometimes think that between the dietary advice and the statins, they really are trying to get rid of us quicker - though paying for looking after all the diabetics with complications can't possibly save them money. It's pure insanity.

 

[Kallyloo]

Looking forward to that post IanD as I live in Hillingdon and don't currently know what's going on re diabetes support in the area.

 

[Spiker]

@Scandichic

Oh no the dreaded "report to the dietician to correct your defective thinking!".

The sad thing is that while doctors and DSNs have had a lengthy scientific training understand an evidence based approach, and will generally at least listen to an evidence based argument (if they have time), dieticians don't even need a degree and are not the sharpest tools in the box. In fact they seem like members of a cult with a fixed belief system and no capacity for change. And they don't understand metabolism, or any of the energy systems they are trying to advise us on. The bottom line is that most dieticians (I've met only very few exceptions) don't understand what they are talking about, and specifically, could not give you the evidence for the recommendations they are making, nor could they follow a scientific debate on it, let alone make that debate themselves. They effectively are parrots who just parrot some views that have come down unchallenged from about the 1930s. What amazes me is that the other HCPs, who are so much better trained, defer to these parrots on questions of diet. It's like the medics and DSNs have decided that diet is pretty irrelevant, so they will handle the clever stuff like drugs and technology and leave the 2-GCSEs dietician to handle diet. It's so depressing!

 

[phoenix]

For information
Graduates with the following minimum UK qualifications are normally eligible for entry to the Dietetics Register:
• Bachelor degree with Honours in Dietetics or Nutrition and Dietetics.
• Masters degree in Dietetics or Nutrition and Dietetics.
• Postgraduate Diploma in Dietetics.
Normally, applicants for postgraduate courses will have successfully completed an honours degree course which contains an acceptable
level of human physiology and biochemist
Content of degree:
http://www.bda.uk.com/ced/CurriculumDocument080826.pdf

 

[Spiker]

For information
Graduates with the following minimum UK qualifications are normally eligible for entry to the Dietetics Register:
• Bachelor degree with Honours in Dietetics or Nutrition and Dietetics.
• Masters degree in Dietetics or Nutrition and Dietetics.
• Postgraduate Diploma in Dietetics.
Normally, applicants for postgraduate courses will have successfully completed an honours degree course which contains an acceptable
level of human physiology and biochemist
Content of degree:
http://www.bda.uk.com/ced/CurriculumDocument080826.pdf

Apologies, I stand corrected. I was pretty sure you could qualify as a dietician with the equivalent of an HND, a non-graduate qualification.

This leaves me even more puzzled as to why dieticians are generally so impervious to evidence and logic.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

My dietician couldn't tell me whether vitamin D was stored in the body or not

 

[Spiker]

My (diabetes unit) dietician did not know that ketones are a normal metabolic energy source. She insisted they are a toxin and not an energy source. :-(

 

[ItalianKitten]

My diabetes dietician was surprisingly open minded.
She did think that starches were an essential category of food for good health.
And she did frown in disbelief when I told her I wasn't having any.
But then she looked at my food log and she seemed quite relieved, as I eat really well.
In the end she agreed to let me carry on with LCHF for a year before reassessing the situation.
I thought that was pretty marvellous, and a great vote of confidence for this way of eating.
Now I don't want to hear a peep about nutrition from my carb fundamentalists GP and nurse

 

[martinsk8r]

I could never work out why a young healthy nutritionalist or fitness instructor would give low fat advice to a 53 year old diabetic BMI 26. I would love to meet them after they turn 40 and see how their 5 a day low fat diet has treated them through the years. I prefer to look to nature. Elephants are huge and they eat green stuff. Cheetahs are thin and fast and eat meat. I could go on, Rhino, Hippo, and compare with meat eaters. Perregrine falcons are the fastest birds and eat pigeons, who eat corns and grains.
Thousands of years ago we ate apples and other fruits, together with root crops and fattened ourselves up ready to try to survive the winter on our stores of fat. Now we buy them every day of the year, and stay fat! So its LCHF for me.

 

[ItalianKitten]

Thousands of years ago...

You don't even need to go that far.
Right now, our livestock is fed grains to fatten up. Not Fat.
Humans are different from livestock, but not that different.

 

[martinsk8r]

You don't even need to go that far.
Right now, our livestock is fed grains to fatten up. Not Fat.
Humans are different from livestock, but not that different.

Yes, I agree. What I meant to say was that we have gone wrong with our diets over the last 50 years but our bodies developed over a few thousand years. We should be eating a diet closer to what we used to eat, and not what the supermarkets and factories want us to eat. I think we should eat some carbs, Barry Groves thinks a diabetic should be on 50 - 60g of Carbs per day and I found that good.
Now I am off gliklazide and on to Insulin I hope to get back to a LCHF diet (but LOW carb not none!). The Gliklazide tablets made me crave carbs and exercise only made it worse.