LCHF and the NHS

borofergie

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,169
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Racism, Sexism, Homophobia
Do you think that guidelines should be developed on anecdote?

How do you think that the current guidelines were developed? Certainly not on the back of any long term scientific data.

As I said above, we know for sure from UKPDS that prescribing a high-carb diet to diabetics doesn't work. We also know that the there is no evidence that links fat consumption to cardiovascular mortality. I think it's time to start considering some alternatives don't you?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 people

Madbazoo

Well-Known Member
Messages
209
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Now that I can understand as they have to base everything on clinical research. I saw something on TV yesterday about side effects of statins. Saying that some medical journal had got their figures wrong. They had said there were more people suffering side effects than there actually was. A London cardiac doctor was asked if people should be warned about the side effect of statins and she said that those at risk should not stop taking their statins and that she gives them out happily every day. She also intimated that they are sometimes given out prematurely.
I think we should be very wary of these newspaper reports. There is much evidence about the side effects of statins but remember that the pharma companies that support many of these journals need to sell them to make profits. I suspect that they brought pressure on BMJ to suppress those figures bt saying they were incorrect.


Type 2. Was out of control till I found this forum. Low Carb and testing saved me. Glucophage 1 per day down from 4. HBa1c down to 36
 

Mud Island Dweller

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,161
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
An awful lot.
Got told by my boss where l am at the moment when l explained l ate LCHF...
I hate to tell you but Atkins died of a heart attack

My reply
I hate to tell you we all die at some point. And l drive cars look how many thousands die in car crashes.

He walked off in disgust, apart from being a miserable sod his wife is a gp :facepalm:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people

Totto

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,831
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Got told by my boss where l am at the moment when l explained l ate LCHF...
I hate to tell you but Atkins died of a heart attack

My reply
I hate to tell you we all die at some point. And l drive cars look how many thousands die in car crashes.

He walked off in disgust, apart from being a miserable sod his wife is a gp :facepalm:
Atkins didn't die from heart failure, he slipped and banged his head.

On April 8, 2003, at age 72, a day after a major snowstorm in New York, Atkins slipped on an icy pavement, suffering severe head trauma. He spent nine days in intensive care before dying on April 17, 2003, from complications from his head injury.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

Spiker

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,685
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Got told by my boss where l am at the moment when l explained l ate LCHF...
I hate to tell you but Atkins died of a heart attack

My reply
I hate to tell you we all die at some point. And l drive cars look how many thousands die in car crashes.

He walked off in disgust, apart from being a miserable sod his wife is a gp :facepalm:
Atkins died from a fall. But even if this urban myth was true it's still an illogical point as you rightly say.

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 

Mud Island Dweller

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,161
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
An awful lot.
:happy: many thanks for that info l shall slide it into conversation all l knew was he had passed and so felt l would just make the point to him ...and his point was?
 

borofergie

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,169
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Racism, Sexism, Homophobia
Instead of worrying about how Robert Atkins died, maybe you should all be worried about how Sue Townsend died: a numb fingered, blind amputee on dialysis. The choice between that and a heart attack is simple.

I sometimes wonder if some of the "anti-low-carb" scaremongers who happily post this sort of unfounded propaganda have any really concept of the human cost of what they are doing? You can probably count it on amputated fingers and toes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 14 people

Pollylocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
525
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Not many.
....I hope that some DNs and GPs look at this forum and start to question what they've been taught about diabetes when they see how many of us low carb and have benefited from doing so.....I cannot blame GPs, after all it means 'general' practitioner, they don't specialise but DNs do ....... do they not question what they learn on their courses and updates...theory is all very well but its not the whole story....as someone once said 'there's none so blind as those who cannot see'.....:grumpy:

.....By the way I know most abbreviations but what is HCP please....?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

SJC

Well-Known Member
Messages
683
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Diets!
Is, to lower carbs generally and switch to whole grains and low fat, the general concensus in most countries? Is it only Sweden that is strictly following the LCHF diet? Just wondering. :)
 

mpe

Well-Known Member
Messages
300
I cry FUD(*), phoenix. What you quoted is not contradicting beneficial effects, not contradicting that there's no good evidence for low fat / high carb, not contradicting that there is good evidence for beneficial effects of low carb / high fat. It's just raising a fear of an unknown. Every new therapy suffers from this problem. When low fat / high carb was introduced, there was similarly, no evidence at all on long term risks (ignoring the fact that there was no evidence on short term benefits either!). Every single therapy that is introduced, is initially introduced in the absence of evidence on long term risks. If that wasn't the case, nothing would ever get introduced and nothing would ever change, because it's a chicken and egg problem.

One big irony here is that LFHC diets appear to be very much the exception in the first place. Both throughout human history and amongst mammals. (Even herbivores tend to be more LCHF when their gut bacteria are looked at closely.)

So called "paleo" diets are generally LCHF since that is the conclusion reached from archeology and studying modern hunter-gather people.

I think what we are seeing in the NHS is frustrating for some (me included) but reasonable. They are conservative, and they are slowly moderating their opinion, as evidence slowly builds up in favour of low carb and evidence builds up against low fat.

That evidence is also against the low fat element. Though possibly not (yet) as much as against the high sugars element.

We would not want them to change national policy on a knee jerk reaction, so a bit of conservatism is appropriate.

Even to correct a "knee jerk reaction" made fairly recently?
How long does it take the "status quo" to become the "status quo" anyway.

* FUD = Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Deployed to support the status quo and oppose change, without any base in evidence. Developed by IBM to preserve their near-monopoly dominance of the computer hardware market. (Of course that worked well for them in the end...)

Though Microsoft appear to have learned from IBM's mistakes here.
 

mpe

Well-Known Member
Messages
300
I don't know anything about the rest of you but if I ate that healthy diet my BG would be sky rocketing and I'd still have nerve damage to my feet and toes.

In which case "healthy" is hardly the most appropriate adjective, except when used sarcastically.
 

Ian DP

Well-Known Member
Messages
712
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Chips
....I hope that some DNs and GPs look at this forum and start to question what they've been taught about diabetes when they see how many of us low carb and have benefited from doing so.....I cannot blame GPs, after all it means 'general' practitioner, they don't specialise but DNs do .......


I believe the problem lies with the NHS policy. I believe there are many specialists who realise the benefits of low carbing but because it is against NHS policy are not able to advise on it. Only Drs and consultants probably have some persuasive say in NHS policy, but even they can not advise patients against NHS policy.

I wonder how many top NHS policy advisors have a 'sugar or carb' food connection or a pharmaceutical drug company company connection. Probably more than 50%. A lot of companies have a lot to lose if the NHS were to support low carb. And there lies the big problem.... Maybe support from meat farmers, nut, cheese, egg, butter suppliers etc would help change things.



Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

notned

Well-Known Member
Messages
163
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Diabetes, cirrhosis, lymphoma, acronyms, green celery (because it's lazy), those computer programs that nag you night after night to download them and then, when you do, present reams of conditions and threats for you to accept before they'll run. DVDs that start with 5 minutes of threats - if I'd pirated it, then I'd surely leave those out.
....as someone once said 'there's none so blind as those who cannot see'.....:grumpy:

The quote I grew up with was "There's none as blind as them that don't want to see". (Derbys - South Yorks - translated the end which was actually "them as dunna wanna see").

Perhaps even more apposite for the slight change.

I'm fairly sure that my DN gave me the NHS version, but at our second appointment strongly recommended 'Carbs and Cals'.


J.
 

Scardoc

Well-Known Member
Messages
494
I cry FUD(*), phoenix.
* FUD = Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Deployed to support the status quo and oppose change, without any base in evidence.

Good Lord Spiker! Are you Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon all rolled into one?!?!?!?!