Wrong message - AGAIN

[Scardoc]

Nice re-interpretation of my words.
Unfortunately, it proves you didn't read them properly.

Or that I miss-understood, or it was ambiguous, what you meant by "less physically able".

 

[Harpar]

Insulin resistance is due to the over consumption of carbs. The effect/result of the overeating is weight gain.

Insulin resistance can also be caused by under eating carbs, although this is less common, a carb deficit accompanied with hypothyroidism can cause the thyroid to produce too much reverse T3 and not enough T3. T3 is used by every cell in the body and controls the metabolic rate of that cell. Reverse T3 puts a block on those receptors thereby reducing the metabolic rate, so not allowing insulin to open the way for glucose to enter the cells. Insulin resistance. This is why it is often necessary for those with hypothyroidism to carb-up every couple of days to fool the system and avoid the thyroid producing too much reverse T3.

 

[Brunneria]

Or that I miss-understood, or it was ambiguous, what you meant by "less physically able".

Yes, I deliberately chose those words because there are a range of reasons and circumstances which contribute.

Your #34 post focuses heavily (pun!) on exercise being a large (pun!!) factor, probably the main cause of weight gain leading to fatty liver and insulin resistance, leading to the development of type 2. I believe I have seen other posts of yours on the same theme?

I take a much broader (pun!!!) view, and think that a vast array of contributing factors, including diet (individual and national), exercise, sun exposure, pesticides, food additives and changed food production processes are all involved.

Some people are unaffected by this, and remain slim, fit, active and healthy, others are affected (less physically able to cope with these lifestyle changes), and they are the ones who develop health problems. Incidences of type 2 diabetes, MS and various other auto immune diseases are increasing every year.

I read an interestingly speculative article recently linking the current increase in autoimmune diseases to the rise in Vitamin D deficiency in pregnant women - the mum gets short of vit D, the baby has a higher risk of autoimmune diseases, including diabetes, in later life. Fascinating. But not, at this stage, sufficiently well researched.

Being unable to physically cope with the modern lifestyle/diet is not just about not being active enough (or being too fat, or having a fatty liver). It is a complex issue of burgeoning weight and great gravitas (pun pun pun!!!!).

I can also add that my personal experience has been that I had glucose tolerance issues a good decade before I started gaining weight, and during those 10 years it was the glucose tolerance issues (reactive hypoglycaemia) that led to me becoming less and less active. It is very hard to exercise when you can hardly face standing up because your arms and legs ache if you do, and you get the shakes, go white and feel faint after walking any distance. Unsurprisingly, I ended up gaining weight. But it wasn't the cause of my glucose intolerance, or my inactivity.

 

[Scardoc]

I don't think we disagree that there are many different reasons for weight gain. I still don't fully understand the idea that we are less physically able to cope with the modern lifestyle choices.

Yes, many of my previous posts have focused on the decline of exercise and the ever increasing sedentary life people are living. This, along with poor diet is, in my opinion, the overwhelming reason so many people are overweight and obese.

Another common thread you will see in my posts is personal choice as both diet and exercise are something the vast majority of the population can control. They are also areas that the government can heavily influence for the better if they choose to.

There is never going to be a one size fits all which is why the focus shifts to the main risks. Everything in our modern society is designed to make life easier or more pleasurable for us, and to make a lot of people very rich. However, we are also more educated than ever.

For every person who has unfortunately suffered glucose intolerance issues like yourself, how many more would you say have suffered by choosing takeaways every night, drinking to excess or swapping exercise for a screen?

 

[Brunneria]

I don't think we disagree that there are many different reasons for weight gain. I still don't fully understand the idea that we are less physically able to cope with the modern lifestyle choices.

Yes, many of my previous posts have focused on the decline of exercise and the ever increasing sedentary life people are living. This, along with poor diet is, in my opinion, the overwhelming reason so many people are overweight and obese.

Another common thread you will see in my posts is personal choice as both diet and exercise are something the vast majority of the population can control. They are also areas that the government can heavily influence for the better if they choose to.

There is never going to be a one size fits all which is why the focus shifts to the main risks. Everything in our modern society is designed to make life easier or more pleasurable for us, and to make a lot of people very rich. However, we are also more educated than ever.

For every person who has unfortunately suffered glucose intolerance issues like yourself, how many more would you say have suffered by choosing takeaways every night, drinking to excess or swapping exercise for a screen?

If you met me in the street, you would see a middle aged fat woman, and your mindset would tell you that the woman was too lazy to exercise, perhaps too ignorant to know how to diet. You would probably also assume she lived on takeaways.

Nonsense, of course, but since you wouldn't actually go to the trouble of finding out the truth, your assumptions and judgements are secure.

And how many times a day do those judgements happen? Prejudices like that are self-perpetuating.

So, returning to your question:

For every person who has unfortunately suffered glucose intolerance issues like yourself, how many more would you say have suffered by choosing takeaways every night, drinking to excess or swapping exercise for a screen?

I have no idea. And neither do you.

 

[Scardoc]

The World Health Organization could be in a better position than either of us, their fact sheet no. 311,obesity and overweight, reviewed in May states diet and exercise are fundamental reasons.

If we ever hope to make the world any better then we have to face up to truths. Some obese people have become so through poor choices. We can argue over the numbers but I believe the majority have no underlying medical reasons. I believe that socio-economic reasons far outweigh medical.

Does believing that makes me prejudiced? To some it will but I have formed that opinion over the years from everything I have read, heard and experienced.

 

[Brunneria]

The World Health Organization could be in a better position than either of us, their fact sheet no. 311,obesity and overweight, reviewed in May states diet and exercise are fundamental reasons.

If we ever hope to make the world any better then we have to face up to truths. Some obese people have become so through poor choices. We can argue over the numbers but I believe the majority have no underlying medical reasons. I believe that socio-economic reasons far outweigh medical.

Does believing that makes me prejudiced? To some it will but I have formed that opinion over the years from everything I have read, heard and experienced.

Yes, I think you are misled by bad information. Especially since your lifetime of reading and learning is currently being reassessed and overturned - the big fat fat debacle being a prime example.

Your experience, like mine, is subjective.

The WHO draw their figures and opinions from the same misguided medical professionals and experts who advise us to use the Eatwell plate.

And so we come full circle.

 

[Scardoc]

No, we simply disagree. Only time will tell and I doubt we'll still be around when the results come in!

 

[Etty]

Look what happened to Dr Michael Moseley when he ate a low fat diet for a few decades:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...s-The-Fast-Diet-author-DR-MICHAEL-MOSLEY.html

 

[tonyS54]

The balanced meal which someone questioned earlier very relevant, fruit should normally be part of a balanced meal.https://www.afd.asso.fr/diabetique/equilibre-alimentaire .

Is that the French version of the eatwell plate

 

[statistical]

Look what happened to Dr Michael Moseley when he ate a low fat diet for a few decades:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...s-The-Fast-Diet-author-DR-MICHAEL-MOSLEY.html

Hi Etty

Tim Noakes, Professor of excersize and sports science, university of Cape Town has also seen the light ref
http://www.discovery.co.za/email_za/mailers/pdfs/general/noakes.pdf

 

[statistical]

Insulin resistance can also be caused by under eating carbs, although this is less common, a carb deficit accompanied with hypothyroidism can cause the thyroid to produce too much reverse T3 and not enough T3. T3 is used by every cell in the body and controls the metabolic rate of that cell. Reverse T3 puts a block on those receptors thereby reducing the metabolic rate, so not allowing insulin to open the way for glucose to enter the cells. Insulin resistance. This is why it is often necessary for those with hypothyroidism to carb-up every couple of days to fool the system and avoid the thyroid producing too much reverse T3.

Fair enough Harper but that does not prove that an over abundance of body fat causes insulin resistance.

 

[Harpar]

It doesn't prove or disprove. Just saying that there is more than one way to get insulin resistance.

 

[Southport GP]

Looking back (with more than a tinge or regret), I would have been very grateful now if, 4 or 5 years ago, someone had taken a little time to impress upon me that my steadily rising BG levels, together with my age, lifestyle and increasing weight, could easily lead to full-blown T2.

As it was, my then GP said nothing. Whether I would have done anything about it is another thing, but I would have appreciated the chance to do so, instead of blithely going on as normal. I think I would have at least read-up about diabetes, of which I knew absolutely nothing mainly because it wasn't in the family and no-one I knew well had it.

Health Education is all to do with raising awareness. Not through scare tactics, but by health professionals individually giving their patients the benefit of their training, knowledge and experience, and this should have meant my GP warning me that, in his experience, I risked developingT2 if I carried on as I was.

I can appreciate the distinction these researchers are making, but I think they're dealing in semantics. I certainly don't believe that the idea of ditching the 'pre-diabetes' message/label will help, least of all in combatting the ever-increasing numbers of T2s.

 

[AnnieC]

The debate about fats being good or bad will go on and on I think. I do wonder though about the people who don't like or cannot tolerate fats. Some people do not eat a lot of fat simply because they don't like it and others because of digestive problems and can't eat it. Are we suppose to start giving children high fat foods and some who read that fat is good will take it that it's ok to eat loads of processed foods, burgers, chips, pizzas, kebas and takeaways all loaded with fat and they will still avoid the fruit and vegetables.
I was a WW2 child living in London it is a fact that the war time diet although food was rationed was a healthy one as it had been worked out to be and no one starved. You hardly ever saw an overweight person or any fat children and diabetes was something most people had never heard of because we simply did not know anyone with it. Most people had a low fat diet because foods that contained most fat were the ones that were rationed so we had least of them there was no oils to cook with we had very little meat and butter was for Sundays only so we all ate magarine everyday and women found ingenious ways to cook even cakes without using fat and meals were bulked out with plenty of root vegetables that a lot grew themselves and bread was served with every meal...and in between,,, to fill us up Diabetes is very much a post war illness and it is practically a world wide epidemic so what is the cause of it can't just be down to fat and carbs

 

[Southport GP]

Here is one GP who thinks he should give patients the choice of acting on the diagnosis of 'pre-diabetes' it just feels right -along the lines of 'a stitch in time'. The author wonders if the diagnosis can have a negative impact on a patient - well surely it depends how the message is delivered:
I feel it's an opportunity for action, please see my reply to the article here http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g4485/rapid-responses
if you agree with me please 'click' on my letter as the response that gets the most clicks is published in the journal

It may not work for you Gudren but it works for a lot of other people.

You might like to read this article, Pre-diabetes label unhelpful and unnecessary.

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-07-pre-diabetes-unhelpful-unnecessary.html



"Labelling people with moderately high blood sugar as pre-diabetic is a drastically premature measure with no medical value and huge financial and social costs, say researchers from UCL and the Mayo Clinic, Minnesota.

The analysis, published in the BMJ, considered whether a diagnosis of pre-diabetes carried any health benefits such as improved diabetes prevention. The authors showed that treatments to reduce blood sugaronly delayed the onset of type 2 diabetes by a few years, and found no evidence of long-term health benefits.

Type 2 diabetes is typically diagnosed with a blood test that measures levels of haemoglobin A1c, which indicates average blood sugar level over the last three months. People with an A1c over 6.5% can be diagnosed with diabetes but the latest guidelines from the American Diabetes Association (ADA) define anyone with an A1c between 5.7% and 6.4% as having pre-diabetes".

It would be interesting to know if people who have been told they are pre-diabetic have any comments about this article.

 

[Gudrun]

Here is one GP who thinks he should give patients the choice of acting on the diagnosis of 'pre-diabetes' it just feels right -along the lines of 'a stitch in time'. The author wonders if the diagnosis can have a negative impact on a patient - well surely it depends how the message is delivered:
I feel it's an opportunity for action, please see my reply to the article here http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g4485/rapid-responses
if you agree with me please 'click' on my letter as the response that gets the most clicks is published in the journal

Thanks for the link, Southport GP. I totally agree.

There is a much greater negative impact on self image if a patient is not diagnosed early enough to make lifestyle changes and goes on to have diabetic complications.

 

[Harpar]

Its great that you are working with your patients Southport GP, unfortunately there are many many more that don't. I very much believe in proper early intervention, with the correct advice. Give people the right support and the right advice and most will make the changes, some wont and never will because it involves too much hard work, but they should still be given the choice. I lost my faith in the medical profession many years ago, unfortunately I think I have only ever encountered two doctors that would actually listen before making judgements, most are dismissive and patronising, and view the public as being too stupid to understand and make informed choices. You are amongst the few I fear.

 

[modesty007]

Some good read http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0899-9007(14)00332-3/fulltext#bib94

 

[WilliamEE]

Though I am no pre diabetic, I will heading there if I don't take action.

My doctors thinks it's fine for me so see carbs. I am being referred to a dietician later this week. I'll be interest in which she has so say. But regardless I am cutting those bad carbs (bread, pasta, rice & potatoes) eat.

Everything I have read on this and other forums has convinced me. Best advice I am finding are from the people living it.