What's the cause of diabetes again. Ie type 2

Totto

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2,831
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Totto, good post except i think to say it has a lot to do with genes must surely be an oversimplication also.

You seem to be saying that you do not think diet or anything is part of the cause. Is that the case.

To me it seems clear that diet has to be part of the cause.

Its like cancer, Many have a genetic predisposition to it. But you can have a predisposition to it and not actually get it if you don't trigger the environmental switches. This is my understanding for things like cancer, diabetes 2 and depression to name only a few.

I think the whole picture is very very complicated because i think there are many routes to the same end. e.g. i think there may be many ways one could end up with diabetes, cancer or depression but most of them would start with a predisposing gene set.

So when someone (as happened on a thread on this site) says to me that diet or overeating does not cause diabetes, i am inclined to think they are just in denial and not helping themselves if this is their view.

Still no one has commented on the body shape. Are you all apple shapes. (most of the weight around the middle with skinnier legs and often a flattish backside) Are any of you pear?(big backside, normal or smallish top end). I am a pear, don't have diabetes and am wondering if i am not likely to get diabetes despite how much junk food i eat or how fat i get. I'm just wondering and I never see this addressed. But we know that the way fat is deposited in pears is more risky than for pears, Hence my hypothesis.
Oh, I am sure the eat well plate as well as sugary drinks, sweets and junk food all add to the number of diabetics but if you don't have the genes it seems you keep your ability to produce enough amounts of insulin regardless of diet or insulin resistance. And I never did the eat well plate, don't like sweet stuff and am of normal weight but have two parents with diabetes and most of my relatives on dad´s side have it too so I have always known I was at very high risk.
 

donnellysdogs

Master
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13,233
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Type 1
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Pump
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People that can't listen to other people's opinions.
People that can't say sorry.
Sunspot.. In relation to shapes of body.. You didn't mention "like a rake"-thats mine, but I'm type 1.


Loving life
 
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poshtotty

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Messages
1,012
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
This is an interesting debate. I strongly believe, from personal experience that it Type 2 can be autoimmune related too. I had very severe glandular fever around 1994 and was about to be hospitalised because of concerns for my liver due to dehydration. 10 years later, within a short space of time I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and T2. The focus was one addressing RA while T2 was ignored with the usual advice many others have complained about ie the Eatwell Plate.

As for genetics I disagree. I come from a family with over 100 living relatives. My mother was one of 11 children and my father one of 8, all married, had children and now have grandchildren and great grandchildren and everyone is fit and healthy, despite appalling diets drive by a sweet tooth. One aunt was known to always carry sweets in her handbag and occasionally an M & S cooked chicken to offer as gift for anyone she visited! Food features high on their lists of priorities yet I am the only person to be diabetic...........until a 70 year old aunt was diagnosed 2 years ago.

I had good diet, having studied nutrition and raised a family on a healthy diet, with limited sweet treats. None of my 3 (adult) children have inherited a sweet tooth and all follow a healthy diet, one being vegetarian, and a son an exponent of green tea. None carries any excess weight and I feel the cycle has been broken.

I'm convinced my T2 is a result of auto immune deficiency, just as my RA is. I have no other medical conditions. Just 2 which are both autoimmune ones.

As an aside, since following LCHF I've taken myself off all my RA meds, including methotraxate. Apart from a little morning stiffness in the joints, I'm coping, and I hope it is the diet which is addressing both the T2 and RA.
 
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mcdonagh47

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79
. And the different treatments for different kinds of diabetes are also well known..

No there are no treatments for Type 1 or Type 2 diabetes - all that is on offer are relatively crude, more or less hit-or-miss methods of managing the symptoms.
 

Totto

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,831
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
No there are no treatments for Type 1 or Type 2 diabetes - all that is on offer are relatively crude, more or less hit-or-miss methods of managing the symptoms.
So treatment means the same as a cure? In that case I don't treat my hypothyroidism, I only manage symptoms by taking thyroid hormones? Is that right?
 

mcdonagh47

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Messages
79
In that case I don't treat my hypothyroidism, I only manage symptoms by taking thyroid hormones? Is that right?

Spot on. The fact that you will have to take your thyroid medication for life tells you that the fundamental condition is not being addressed -its just managing the symptoms in order to avoid complications.
Presumably treatment of the condition ( if the causes are known) is just too expensive in most cases
 

Totto

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,831
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Spot on. The fact that you will have to take your thyroid medication for life tells you that the fundamental condition is not being addressed -its just managing the symptoms in order to avoid complications.
Presumably treatment of the condition ( if the causes are known) is just too expensive in most cases
I disagree with you interpretation of treatment. The meaning of the word treatment isn't the same as the meaning of the word cure, so I will continue to treat my thyroid hormone deficiency with hormones
 
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Sunspot

Active Member
Messages
39
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Bad food, junk food, processed food.
Adele that's a good point to bring up. Cats get diabetes too. And i once new some people who had a diabetic cat. They told me they fed it chocolate. I think the diabetes in these animals is coming from the extra "treats" (poisons is a better word) that people are feeding their pets. I have a cat and dog, neither have diabetes. Neither eat anything other than pet food, which in my opinion has not always been the best quality, particularly for the dog. I don' think its its the canned food which does contain cereals. I think its the overeating and particularly of the non pet foods.
 
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this is too difficult

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,758
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
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diabetes
Why do you have a cat?
Adele that's a good point to bring up. Cats get diabetes too. And i once new some people who had a diabetic cat. They told me they fed it chocolate. I think the diabetes in these animals is coming from the extra "treats" (poisons is a better word) that people are feeding their pets. I have a cat and dog, neither have diabetes. Neither eat anything other than pet food, which in my opinion has not always been the best quality, particularly for the dog. I don' think its its the canned food which does contain cereals. I think its the overeating and particularly of the non pet foods.
 

Sunspot

Active Member
Messages
39
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Bad food, junk food, processed food.
Sunspot.. In relation to shapes of body.. You didn't mention "like a rake"-thats mine, but I'm type 1.


Loving life
Donnelly, that's because this thread is not about type 1 diabetes. I deliberately excluded it because it makes the discussion so complicated as to make it become impossible to unravel .

But since you remind me of question about body type, i looked into my question on it yesterday and the answer i found was that when you are obese it makes no difference what body type you have. Both are then prone to diabetes 2. So it seems to become a case of not so much diet but obesity that causes so many of these cases of diabetes type 2.

I think we can safely say that the skinny people with type 2 have a different gene set than those who are getting type 2 after becoming obese.

And of course it is diet that's leading to obesity. So this tells me, if i don't manage my weight, even though i'm a pear, i could possibly end up with diabetes too. But i can't tell at the outset since i can't see what my genetics are. I could also be one of those who can be fat and not diabetic. Anwyay i don't want to chance it because i hate being fat and i would hate it even more if i were also diabetic.
 
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this is too difficult

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,758
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
diabetes
Donnelly, that's because this thread is not about type 1 diabetes. I deliberately excluded it because it makes the discussion so complicated as to make it become impossible to unravel .

But since you remind me of question about body type, i looked into my question on it yesterday and the answer i found was that when you are obese it makes no difference what body type you have. Both are then prone to diabetes 2. So it seems to become a case of not so much diet but obesity that causes so many of these cases of diabetes type 2.

I think we can safely say that the skinny people with type 2 have a different gene set than those who are getting type 2 after becoming obese.

And of course it is diet that's leading to obesity. So this tells me, if i don't manage my weight, even though i'm a pear, i could possibly end up with diabetes too. But i can't tell at the outset since i can't see what my genetics are. I could also be one of those who can be fat and not diabetic. Anwyay i don't want to chance it because i hate being fat and i would hate it even more if i were also diabetic.
You are not diabetic?
 
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Sunspot

Active Member
Messages
39
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Bad food, junk food, processed food.
This is an interesting debate. I strongly believe, from personal experience that it Type 2 can be autoimmune related too. I had very severe glandular fever around 1994 and was about to be hospitalised because of concerns for my liver due to dehydration. 10 years later, within a short space of time I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and T2. The focus was one addressing RA while T2 was ignored with the usual advice many others have complained about ie the Eatwell Plate.

As for genetics I disagree. I come from a family with over 100 living relatives. My mother was one of 11 children and my father one of 8, all married, had children and now have grandchildren and great grandchildren and everyone is fit and healthy, despite appalling diets drive by a sweet tooth. One aunt was known to always carry sweets in her handbag and occasionally an M & S cooked chicken to offer as gift for anyone she visited! Food features high on their lists of priorities yet I am the only person to be diabetic...........until a 70 year old aunt was diagnosed 2 years ago.

I had good diet, having studied nutrition and raised a family on a healthy diet, with limited sweet treats. None of my 3 (adult) children have inherited a sweet tooth and all follow a healthy diet, one being vegetarian, and a son an exponent of green tea. None carries any excess weight and I feel the cycle has been broken.

I'm convinced my T2 is a result of auto immune deficiency, just as my RA is. I have no other medical conditions. Just 2 which are both autoimmune ones.

As an aside, since following LCHF I've taken myself off all my RA meds, including methotraxate. Apart from a little morning stiffness in the joints, I'm coping, and I hope it is the diet which is addressing both the T2 and RA.

Diana, you might be a rare exception then. I mean you may be right about the cause of your diabetes. I think it is autoimmune for type 1 isn't it? i can't remember what i read on that score. Anyway it sounds like an interesting case. Sorry to say.

AFter that, what you say about genetics isn't clear. Are you simply disagreeing that genetics is a factor? Why not? Clearly your family has protective genetics. I read a discussion about protective genetics recently. It was in relation to different races having more protection because they had had longer in evolutionary terms living with the disease in their society and had had need to develop the protective genes. Such examples were for Africans, Aborigines and other non european descendent races - all of whom are said to be more susceptible to diabetes type 2 than caucasians.
 

this is too difficult

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,758
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
diabetes
Diana, you might be a rare exception then. I mean you may be right about the cause of your diabetes. I think it is autoimmune for type 1 isn't it? i can't remember what i read on that score. Anyway it sounds like an interesting case. Sorry to say.

AFter that, what you say about genetics isn't clear. Are you simply disagreeing that genetics is a factor? Why not? Clearly your family has protective genetics. I read a discussion about protective genetics recently. It was in relation to different races having more protection because they had had longer in evolutionary terms living with the disease in their society and had had need to develop the protective genes. Such examples were for Africans, Aborigines and other non european descendent races - all of whom are said to be more susceptible to diabetes type 2 than caucasians.
You are not diabetic? what is your reason for being on this forum?
 

poshtotty

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,012
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
No I'm not disagreeing or agreeing on the genetics. Just stating my own experience which I feel is interesting given that all members of my family enjoy good health for their age and longevity. We are all considered to be well built/big boned. I'm 5'8" and quite short compared to my aunts and uncles, some of whom are 6'. They are all overweight, although not obese. I am not obese, although could lose another stone without causing concern, yet in the last 10 years I have developed two irreversible and long-term health conditions.

Did I see @this is too difficult ask if you are diabetic? Why the interest?
 

this is too difficult

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,758
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
diabetes
No I'm not disagreeing or agreeing on the genetics. Just stating my own experience which I feel is interesting given that all members of my family enjoy good health for their age and longevity. We are all considered to be well built/big boned. I'm 5'8" and quite short compared to my aunts and uncles, some of whom are 6'. They are all overweight, although not obese. I am not obese, although could lose another stone without causing concern, yet in the last 10 years I have developed two irreversible and long-term health conditions.

Did I see @this is too difficult ask if you are diabetic? Why the interest?
Just wondered why they were here. Cant find any relationship to diabetes. And your bones don't look that big.
 
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poshtotty

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,012
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Diana, you might be a rare exception then. I mean you may be right about the cause of your diabetes. I think it is autoimmune for type 1 isn't it? i can't remember what i read on that score. Anyway it sounds like an interesting case. Sorry to say.

AFter that, what you say about genetics isn't clear. Are you simply disagreeing that genetics is a factor? Why not? Clearly your family has protective genetics. I read a discussion about protective genetics recently. It was in relation to different races having more protection because they had had longer in evolutionary terms living with the disease in their society and had had need to develop the protective genes. Such examples were for Africans, Aborigines and other non european descendent races - all of whom are said to be more susceptible to diabetes type 2 than caucasians.

As an Essex girl I can assure you that there is no African, Aborigine or other non European descendent blood in our line.

May I ask your interest in this topic @Sunspot ?
 

this is too difficult

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,758
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
diabetes
QUOTE="dianagrace, post: 595921, member: 100221"]As an Essex girl I can assure you that there is no African, Aborigine or other non European descendent blood in our line.

May I ask your interest in this topic @Sunspot ?[/QUOTE]Me?oops I got silly again