BBC 2 TONIGHT AT 9.00 PM. The Big Health Dilemma.

[catherinecherub]

Dr Michael Mosley seeks to establish the truth about meat. Are those barbecue favourites like burgers and sausages really that bad? Should we all go vegetarian?http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04fhb90

 

[noblehead]

Whatever the findings they'll be something else to contradict them over the next few weeks or months, the best policy is everything in moderation and then you can't go too far wrong.

 

[modesty007]

Probably be mixing up processed meat with other normal red meat and probably not any of the meat from grass-fed animals. Also guess there will be a bashing about sat fat....tada the usual stuff.

 

[sanguine]

A lot of bacon is eaten with sandwiches and most burgers will come with chips. They will of course have taken the carbohydrates into consideration ... won't they?

 

[bobrobert]

A book that I am reading at the moment - Know what to eat. authors L A Booth & R F Bilton - states that it is important that meat isn't barbecued because it is bad for you. Something to do with inflammatory response. This book was written last year so it is up to date and so far a good read and informative. Not only about diabetes but other diseases.

 

[mpe]

A lot of bacon is eaten with sandwiches and most burgers will come with chips. They will of course have taken the carbohydrates into consideration ... won't they?

Burgers are also often served in a sandwich. There isn't that much "fast food", that you could find in Britain, which could possibly be called "low carb". Even without chips.
Generally it would be a choice between HCHF and HCLF.
It's not uncommon for barbecued sausages to be served as "hot dogs".
The LCHF version would be a lettuce (or other leaf) wrap.

 

[mpe]

A book that I am reading at the moment - Know what to eat. authors L A Booth & R F Bilton - states that it is important that meat isn't barbecued because it is bad for you. Something to do with inflammatory response. This book was written last year so it is up to date and so far a good read and informative. Not only about diabetes but other diseases.

Do they explain exactly how and why? Given that using a fire to cook meat was the only option for most of history (and prehistory).

 

[sanguine]

There's an issue with carcinogens related to burnt offerings, but I can't see a problem with BBQing per se. It helps to drain the excess fat off for a start. It's just another way of grilling.

I would see more problems with bad BBQing - incineration or undercooking of the insides of the meat for example.

 

[phoenix]

Burgers, if bought rather than just minced beef and sausages are also both classified as processed meats. There is a big question mark about those.
Though apparently most people in the UK don't actually eat the quantities that the EPIC study, which I think was the most recent study, found to have an association between them, CVD and Cancer
http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/e...into-health-effects-of-eating-processed-meat/

 

[bobrobert]

Do they explain exactly how and why? Given that using a fire to cook meat was the only option for most of history (and prehistory).

There is a difference between cooking and burning. Barbecues tend to burn or incinerate?

 

[tonyS54]

Burgers, if bought rather than just minced beef and sausages are also both classified as processed meats. There is a big question mark about those.
Though apparently most people in the UK don't actually eat the quantities that the EPIC study, which I think was the most recent study, found to have an association between them, CVD and Cancer
http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/e...into-health-effects-of-eating-processed-meat/

Zoe Harcombe covered the epic study, loved this quote from her "The researchers should have separated Paleo dudes from Pie monsters".

http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2013/03/meat-consumption-and-mortality/

 

[modesty007]

Burgers, if bought rather than just minced beef and sausages are also both classified as processed meats. There is a big question mark about those.
Though apparently most people in the UK don't actually eat the quantities that the EPIC study, which I think was the most recent study, found to have an association between them, CVD and Cancer
http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/e...into-health-effects-of-eating-processed-meat/

You probably agree there's a huge difference between association and causation, sadly they didn't comment on this in the program, might be to complicated or just more convenient to believe in association.

 

[modesty007]

If you make your own burgers from lovely fatty grass-fed beef mince, wondering if that's still processed meat

 

[Robbity]

According to my over pedantic husband - anything that is eaten other than as-is is processed. With that sort of attitude you can't win!!

Robbity

 

[phoenix]

You probably agree there's a huge difference between association and causation, sadly they didn't comment on this in the program, might be to complicated or just more convenient to believe in association.

I think that there are patterns of eating (and lifestyle) that seem to occur in the healthiest people and similarly patterns that seem to occur in less healthy people. Due to chance?, because they are healthy they eat and behave that way, because they are wealthy enough to eat that way? Maybe some patterns are actually more healthy/less healthy

No, Correlation doesn't imply causation and it is but rarely one cause, one effect but...........
Was it just a chance correlation that people who developed cholera in 19thc London were drinking from the same pumps? Was it just chance that people who smoked were more likely to develop lung cancer? That Beri-beri occurred in those that ate polished rather than brown rice? Scurvy in those who ate no fruit or veg on long distance voyages?

Does one state follow the other? Are there other possibilities? Does this happen consistently? Can we also show plausible mechanisms? ie can we reproduce the effects in animals, in cells? in humans? Is it dose responsive? etc
Scientists and Epidemiologists aren't stupid, they are more than aware of confounding factors and that health states are multifactorial . Bradford Hill though addressed the matter over fifty years ago and every paper should discuss possible reasons. The media often doesn't take note of these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradford_Hill_criteria

Paleo dudes/pie monsters? surely the former should be eating no processed foods including meats http://thepaleodiet.com/what-to-eat-on-the-paleo-diet/

 

[Serena51]

Is grass fed beef the same as organic? If not, where does one buy it?

 

[Patricia21]

They didnt take into consideration the amount of carbs he had with each meal,his plate was full of chips and burger buns,that would have put the weight on more than the meat.
And to eat meat three times a day is going over the top.I agree with Noblehead,everything in moderation.
Wish they would study carbs,

 

[bobrobert]

The program was going quite well till the last 10 minutes when he claimed he put on - I think - 4 kilos in a month purely from eating meat. This will have put off most of the viewers, wrongly IMO.

 

[phoenix]

Is grass fed beef the same as organic? If not, where does one buy it?

In the US where a lot of the Paleo' leaders' live many (most?) animals are fed processed feeds in feed lots and never see grass.
It is somewhat different in Europe where far more cattle and sheep are kept out on grass for much of their lives (just looking out of the window I can see them) and are fed a mixture of forage and processed feed at times of the year when the grass is less nutritious.
Organic doesn't mean that it is completely grass fed. Here is what Tesco' says about it's organic beef.
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=261958383

Pork is more likely to come from an industrial unit as is chicken.

You can buy completely grass fed but it is expensive as it requires a lot of land (just google, for suppliers)

 

[bonus]

They didnt take into consideration the amount of carbs he had with each meal,his plate was full of chips and burger buns,that would have put the weight on more than the meat.
And to eat meat three times a day is going over the top.I agree with Noblehead,everything in moderation.
Wish they would study carbs,

Exactly what I was going to post!!! I was thinking well he's not eating the steak / sausage on his plate alone!!! Like you said he's having much more bread and potatoes (carbs) than he would have probably been eating beforehand.

Not a very well carried out study IMO. I did get a little angry. He looked very thin before he ate the meat anyway so it probably has done him some good lol . His wife looked almost anorexic.

Eating red meat 2 - 3 times a week or even more in moderation will cause no problem at all i think. And most people have chicken, fish etc.