Diabetes UK

[JTL]

That gave me a laugh. Next time England has a referendum on Scottish independence.

If they had voted yes then a further vote should have taken place across the rest of the U.K surely?
To see what the rest of us thought because it was about breaking up the U.K more importantly than Scottish independence.
The Scots want to break up the oldest strongest political union in Europe but only Scottish people get any say in it?
Can't be right.

 

[hale710]

If they had voted yes then a further vote should have taken place across the rest of the U.K surely?
To see what the rest of us thought because it was about breaking up the U.K more importantly than Scottish independence.
The Scots want to break up the oldest strongest political union in Europe but only Scottish people get any say in it?
Can't be right.

I was all for keeping the union. No campaigner through and through.

BUT

Yes independence would have had an effect on the rest of the UK. Scotland does not feel it is being supported and looked after, hence the demand for more powers etc. Why should we stay in the UK if it means we'll be worse off just to keep the rest of you happy?

(Except in this instance I don't think we would have been better off leaving!)

 

[JTL]

I was all for keeping the union. No campaigner through and through.

BUT

Yes independence would have had an effect on the rest of the UK. Scotland does not feel it is being supported and looked after, hence the demand for more powers etc. Why should we stay in the UK if it means we'll be worse off just to keep the rest of you happy?

(Except in this instance I don't think we would have been better off leaving!)

Why should any of us stay in it is my feeling.
If only we could vote to make London independent and leave the rest of us alone!
A house of representatives for Cheshire Lancashire etc.
If Lancashire wanted to legalise brothels and Cheshire didn't ... well it would get interesting wouldn't it!

 

[JTL]

I bet there'd be more truck stops in Lancashire than Cheshire!

 

[semiphonic]

@JACKTHELAD you asked me earlier where in history was currency produced that became worthless. I didn't want to answer but now I've had a couple of pints I feel I can. Germany in the1930's. And the world went to war. People were paying thousands for a loaf of bread. I'm not suggesting for a minute that if the Scottish referendum had been yes that that would have happened, but I do think that Alex Salmond saw himself as a modern day William Wallace. My wife is Scottish, all of my in laws are Scottish, I wouldn't want to lose any of them. One thing is certain, British politics has changed forever....

 

[JTL]

@JACKTHELAD you asked me earlier where in history was currency produced that became worthless. I didn't want to answer but now I've had a couple of pints I feel I can. Germany in the1930's. And the world went to war. People were paying thousands for a loaf of bread. I'm not suggesting for a minute that if the Scottish referendum had been yes that that would have happened, but I do think that Alex Salmond saw himself as a modern day William Wallace. My wife is Scottish, all of my in laws are Scottish, I wouldn't want to lose any of them. One thing is certain, British politics has changed forever....

It wasn't because the government was printing it's own money though.

 

[JTL]

Everyone around me keeps saying British politics is changed forever ... not sure about that.
For instance there are loads of Scots that are now actually expecting Cameron to keep his promises ... no change there then!
He's never kept a promise yet as he?
Why do people keep trusting what these people say ... the NHS is safe in my hands ... I will not raise VAT and on it goes but the public ... no matter how many times they are lied to and or robbed ... keep turning up in the rain to put their mark against the next set of promises but this time promises made by the last lot who were thrown out for breaking all their promises and being useless and next time in the rain they'll vote in the last lot before that that they chucked out .... it's not a game I can play any longer.
Two parties of rich lawyers spinning yarns.
How many times would you let me lie to you like that .... rob you set you up before you decided it wasn't really a good idea?

Who's in charge?
Killers thieves and lawyers.

 

[JTL]

Have you noticed that come the summer parliament closes down for quite a long time.
The country doesn't stop running.
It doesn't stop working.It doesn't fall apart.
Why?
Because they aren't actually doing much about much really are they?
Lets be honest ... the police the window cleaners the generals the bus drivers the factory owners carry on keeping the place ticking over ....

 

[JTL]

If you read Victorian stuff ... Edwardian stuff ... 1950's 60's 70's stuff and on ... these guys are always fighting poverty ... always promising better things.
Health education employment housing and war ... exactly the same unresolved issues a hundred and fifty years on.
We're not as clever as we like to think.

 

[semiphonic]

British politics has changed forever.
We're now being told its English votes for English laws!
None of us have thought about how this referendum has affected the Welsh or the Northern Irish, Scotland have been promised so much, us English are made to feel bad for being english, why should we be? I was born in England but do I feel animosity towards the Scots or the Welsh or the Northern Irish? No of course not!

Apologies to @lizdeluz for hijacking this thread

 

[JTL]

The Scots can have a Scottish nationalist party ... imagine the English trying that one on!
I don't think to many of the promises will amount to much.

 

[equipoise]

@JACKTHELAD you asked me earlier where in history was currency produced that became worthless. I didn't want to answer but now I've had a couple of pints I feel I can. Germany in the1930's. And the world went to war. People were paying thousands for a loaf of bread. I'm not suggesting for a minute that if the Scottish referendum had been yes that that would have happened, but I do think that Alex Salmond saw himself as a modern day William Wallace. My wife is Scottish, all of my in laws are Scottish, I wouldn't want to lose any of them. One thing is certain, British politics has changed forever....

Sorry semiphonic, after you've got over the couple of pints maybe read some German history and you might get the decades right. You're right about Alex Salmond, though

 

[lizdeluz]

British politics has changed forever.
We're now being told its English votes for English laws!
None of us have thought about how this referendum has affected the Welsh or the Northern Irish, Scotland have been promised so much, us English are made to feel bad for being english, why should we be? I was born in England but do I feel animosity towards the Scots or the Welsh or the Northern Irish? No of course not!

Apologies to @lizdeluz for hijacking this thread

( I haven't had enough time yet to follow your debate in detail.)

Our economies aren't equal. One of the reasons for that is that the UK has existed as a whole for 300+ years. Can't just suddenly slice off a limb.

 

[semiphonic]

So my decades are wrong???? Ok, if you say so......

What @lizdeluz said.....

 

[lizdeluz]

It's said that 85% of those who were eligible to vote voted, which ever way you look at the results today it does pour shame on the interest that is shown in the General Elections, was it only something like 30% bothered to vote in 2010?

Yes, it's interesting that turnout for General Elections is relatively pathetic. Is it because we can't connect with Westminster? It was good to see lots of 16 year olds being very motivated to vote in the referendum and odd that many of those same voters won't be able to vote in the upcoming General Election. Let's devolve powers more equally to the constituent countries in the UK and convert the House of Lords into an elected body that oversees and monitors fairness in regional decision-making. That way, maybe people will become more engaged and interested in the benefits of democracy. (Or not). Rant over.

 

[noblehead]

Yes, it's interesting that turnout for General Elections is relatively pathetic. Is it because we can't connect with Westminster? It was good to see lots of 16 year olds being very motivated to vote in the referendum and odd that many of those same voters won't be able to vote in the upcoming General Election. Let's devolve powers more equally to the constituent countries in the UK and convert the House of Lords into an elected body that oversees and monitors fairness in regional decision-making. That way, maybe people will become more engaged and interested in the benefits of democracy. (Or not). Rant over.

People are just disinterested in mainstream politics, that is why there's such a low turnout at the General Elections. Let's face it, between the 3 main political parties there's not much that separates them now.

 

[Andy12345]

its hard to stay interested in politics when the politicians are allowed to lie, i think the promises they make should be stuck to or another election happen, if they make a promise in a election campaign there should be a time limit on doing what they said or a **** good reason to break the promise, that way when you vote for a party, you at least get what you voted for, i also believe voting on local issues is selfish, we should only vote for the good of them country, my mum this last time voted on a specific pension stance, this makes no sense to me especially as they can just change what they said and do something else, and its not like we could say im not voting for them next time one because you may disagree with the other parties nd two because they all lie, its normal so they are all as bad as each other, so this leaves us with a choice of voting for one bunch of liers or another, its no wonder imo that the voters dont bother whe you add into the mix our multicultural society where half the voters are from a different country, why for example would a polish builder who hardly speaks the lingo give a monkeys what lier gets into government?

 

[Weens12]

Absolutely not - I don't want them anywhere.

You and me both... but I notice a distinct silence about this from the other posters with a lot to say on this matter.

 

[Weens12]

i never wanted a yes vote but im getting so cheesed off now i kinda hope there is a yes vote, we have gone through this terrible recession, this could plunge us straight back down the toilet, but the attitude of the scots (and im half scot half welsh by blood) is very distasteful in my opinion, i say build a wall and let scotland stew in its own iron brew

How so ...for having a democratic vote agreed by both governments? - get over yourself.

To quote one of your other posts..

· “its just upsetting when we are sposed to be friends ........., i know its not everyone lol im just cheesed off with it feel like ive been spat at”


.... well now I too am cheesed off ... because of your attitude .... Shouldn't you want the best for your friends... for them to be happy?

Why are YOU taking it personally?? Do you really think YES-voting Scots are voting to get rid of Andy?

 

[Weens12]

I'd predict a 'No' vote by a majority of 10-15%.

Why? Well, the 'Yes' campaign is strongly emotional and very vocal, with words like, 'traitor', 'bully', 'day of reckoning', 'liars' and the like being bandied around, to the point where I think human nature causes some people to be put off openly declaring their opposition, or even debating the point, in favour of assent with the view of the herd, be it implied, muted or otherwise, when asked if they're voting 'Yes'. That's enough in my mind to skew the opinion polls which, for all their sophisticated methodology, have been spectacularly wrong in the recent past.

If I'm wrong and there is a 'Yes' vote, I'd be very sad but I'd then be pressing for Scotland to get what it's decided it wants - total independence. No pound, no shared Bank of England guarantees, no special treatment from the remainder of the UK and no going back.

As an Englishman (albeit with not-too-distant Scottish and Welsh ancestry) I'm deeply aggrieved that I didn't have a say in the possible dissolution of this union, which will affect my standard of living and that of my children and grandchildren for some years to come and for that I blame the abject weakness of the Westminster Parliament and the mind-boggling selfishness of the Scots leadership. A joint referendum could have incorporated a formula which allowed for the large disparity in population size, with a weighting being agreed (i.e. 1 Scottish vote = 1/x English, Welsh and Northern Irish ones) but no-one chose to explore it, That meant we, south of the border have been totally disenfranchised.

If the English had (say) suddenly decided to unilaterally ditch the Scots as some sort of encumbrance, in a one-sided vote designed to be hugely favourable to English aims, the Scots would have, quite rightly, howled with indignation and I would have supported their view 100%. As it is, if a majority of Scots turn out to care so little about me and mine, why should I do any differently for them?

Hopefully, come Friday the family spat will resolved in favour of unity but, even if it is a 'No' vote, I think that the wounds will not be allowed long to heal. And a small 'No' majority would, I fear, be the worst outcome of all.

I'm agog.... how would it have affected your standard of living? After all you'd be getting rid of a load of subsidy junkies ... it must be true... the Daily Mail says so ... I'm assuming that's where you get the bulk of your information from ... or maybe the Sun???