Freestyle Libre rather than cgm?

MushyPeaBrain

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Just wondered if any pumpers were looking at one of these https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/default.aspx

It looks amazing and is hopefully not too expensive. My clinic was discussing giving me a cgm trial but this looks more straightforward and you can wear it much longer. Is it as accurate as cgm? Any benefits for cgm over this?

Hope it doesn't hurt putting the sensor in though (wimp icon)
 

Danaemac

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This is a post which includes a blog some videos and some first hand trialists views and opinions
 
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sofaraway

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I am day 5 of my Libre trial.
So far, not as accurate as Dexcom CGM. With the Dexcom I could use the sensor readings to bolus from they were that accurate (I know technically you are not supposed to do this, and still meter check). With the Libre its been anything from 2-9mmol/l difference. So I still meter check for each bolus.
What it is good for is the in between data trends, and the direction of BG levels.
 
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CarbsRok

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Just wondered if any pumpers were looking at one of these https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/default.aspx

It looks amazing and is hopefully not too expensive. My clinic was discussing giving me a cgm trial but this looks more straightforward and you can wear it much longer. Is it as accurate as cgm? Any benefits for cgm over this?

Hope it doesn't hurt putting the sensor in though (wimp icon)
The libre is more expensive re sensors than a dexcom. Dexcom sensors are £54 each if you buy four at a time and last on average 3 weeks.
 

ConradJ

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actually its less than that @CarbsRok they are 46.50 as @MushyPeaBrain has the Vibe. but yes they last about 3 weeks and long term dex works out cheaper

I thought they're supposed to last 6 days; how do people make them last up to 3 weeks, and doesn't the performance worsen / sensor deteriorate?
 

Engineer88

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I thought they're supposed to last 6 days; how do people make them last up to 3 weeks, and doesn't the performance worsen / sensor deteriorate?

No 7 days theuy are licenced for. the second week is generally most accurate as the sensor has 'bedded in' it depends on the person but lots i know if get much more than 7 including myself (i get about 18-20). if your paying 46 a sensor you have ways of making it last. The biggest thing is keeping it stuck on.
 

CarbsRok

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I thought they're supposed to last 6 days; how do people make them last up to 3 weeks, and doesn't the performance worsen / sensor deteriorate?
Once the sensor expires all you do is restart it as if it's a new sensor. There are ways and means of making the sensor stick and stay stuck so it keeps working :) Some of us could run a master class in the art of sensor sticking :cool:
 
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Platinum

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I use a Dexcom G4 and one of the best points about it is that it alarms if your BM goes above or below a pre-set level. As far as I can tell, the Libre won't wake you up if you are having a hypo, so (From my point of view), what's the point of the Libre?
 

Platinum

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I am still on my first transmitter which I got in October last year - From what I hear, I am running on borrowed time.
The Dexcom warranty is 12 months.
I get between two & three weeks per sensor - which is good, but I wish they lasted longer!
 

ConradJ

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I use a Dexcom G4 and one of the best points about it is that it alarms if your BM goes above or below a pre-set level. As far as I can tell, the Libre won't wake you up if you are having a hypo, so (From my point of view), what's the point of the Libre?

From what I can see from their information, the points are:

1) Lowers need for finger prick testing
2) Potential for continuous data that shows glucose trends, thereby enabling patient and HCP to make more informed decisions about meds, etc., (e.g. basal rates, insulin types and times of dose, I:C ratios, etc.)
3) Lower start-up cost than CGM
4) Potential to lower glucose testing facilities to NHS patients and professionals
5) Suitable for MDI, pump users and non-insulin types
 

ConradJ

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Once the sensor expires all you do is restart it as if it's a new sensor. There are ways and means of making the sensor stick and stay stuck so it keeps working :) Some of us could run a master class in the art of sensor sticking :cool:

Perhaps a Youtube video?

TBH, I'm pleasantly suprised to hear that you can reuse / extend their lifespan. I guess the producers set the lifespan at that length for both 'reliability' and profit reasons.

However, whether my skin (high keloid levels - heals, scars and aggravates more easily) will put up with the same sensor in one place is another matter... or do you remove them, reset and then reinsert?
 

donnellysdogs

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Here is the (letter without address details etc) that I am sending to my CCG research dept.

Please message me any improvements that could be made.

So many thanks to @Spiker for being proof reader and editor and fact and suggestion maker.....thank you Spiker.

Feel free to edit for selves..

Dear Sir / Madam

I am writing to your research and development department to ask whether you could research how a new product in Diabetes management may help those type 1's especially youngsters to achieve better HbA1c levels and therefore a better, healthier life for themselves.

It is widely known that 94% of type 1's do not achieve an HbA1c that falls within the NHS targets. I am not connected in anyway to do with the Company launching this product. I am a type 1 diabetic myself of 30 years and this is my only interest in this product.

My suggestion to yourselves is this:

Find 6 youngsters from 6 to 24 years of age from one GP practice that are type 1's and fail to attend hospitals, and fail to have their regular testing by the GP practice due to the Patient not attending. Invite them all to the GP practice to be given an opportunity to try out some new equipment.
Monitor these Patients over one year compared to 6 other non compliant type 1 youngsters on normal blood testing meters. See whether this equipment is the way for type 1 non compliant diabetics to manage their health better,and of course weigh this information up against any unplanned admissions, test strips etc. Continue to monitor these 12 diabetics for a further 3 years and analyse the frequency and cost efficiencies to include doctors appointments, illnesses, complications and test strips.
Ideally you would also consider a trial by Patients such as myself, that have pumps, but are up available to get funding from your CCG for a Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM).

The product is called "Abbott Freestyle Libre". Please see https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/. This product needs to be researched to see if it can improve the way that Type 1 diabetics are managing themselves in Northamptonshire. This product removes the necessity for blood strips.

Suggested benefits of this research and development:

Costs Benefits:
A) I give you an example of my own costings:

300 blood strips every 28 days £95.94
(These would no longer be needed at all).

Cost of new equipment is initially £40.00
Ongoing sensor costs then are per 28 days £94.00
The benefits that a Type 1diabetic may gain and indeed your CCG is that, unlike any previous system, there is no calibration required by using blood strips and this completely removes the costs of existing meters and blood strips to Type 1 diabetics.

B) if the ability to check Blood Glucose readings on demand avoids even one unplanned admission in to hospital in the lifetime of this product, then this will outweigh any costings of emergency care and follow up treatment.


GP Benefits:
A GP, DSN or hospital care team would have CGM-like data to review with the Patient. More accurate, frequent data to make better decisions of care for the Patient and thus enabling better decisions of treatments and giving Health Professionals better prospects of keeping T1 diabetics out of hospitals with complications which are having huge impacts on budgets.

Patient Benefits:
A Patient will only have to scan their sensor. Many Patients hate doing blood tests, especially in public or in work places. This device just looks like a mobile phone or iPod and will be less obtrusive for the Patient. Currently many Patients have to keep blood testing equipment in their lockers or medical rooms in workplaces, and disposal of blood strips after testing can be a nuisance too. This simple gadget would eliminate all "barriers" that Patients have to not test themselves.

Personally, after being a Type 1 diabetic for over 30 years, (without complications) then I list these benefits as I personally see them. As a Patient I fully realise the budgetary demands made upon the NHS, and indeed I work closely with my GP Practice (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) to help them as a volunteer. I send this proposal for research as I genuinely believe from my experiences that this equipment could revolutionise the care that Patients take of themselves and the care and costings that NHS persons will be able to give on a longterm basis.

I am asking that you trial this product and evaluate the full costs and benefits to the NHS and Patients. I think this research could then be used as a study paper to deliver to the whole of the NHS.

I await your response and your analysis of my proposal.

Yours faithfully
 
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MushyPeaBrain

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From my point of view the libre looks less painful and difficult to insert than the cgm. That's a huge plus! It appears much smaller than the cgm so I would worry less about knocking it off too. Like Conrad I would worry about the cgm sensor being in place for that long. Is this not like when pumpers used to wear cannulas for as long as possible before site fatigue became a known issue?
 

sofaraway

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Find 6 youngsters from 6 to 24 years of age

I would change this to 18-24 as currently not got it's license for children

sorry can't work out how to multi quote

"300 blood strips every 28 days £95.94
(These would no longer be needed at all)"

If on a cost effective meter ie. cheap meter! then the cost will be £60 (£10 for 50 strips)

Also they do say still need to finger prick for hypos, so not totally eliminating finger pricks but reducing definitely.

If the patient does not attend for appointments, would they come back for downloading for the HCP to have access to the information? Maybe that would be a condition of getting more sensors?

Hope my feedback is constructive,
 
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CarbsRok

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Perhaps a Youtube video?

TBH, I'm pleasantly suprised to hear that you can reuse / extend their lifespan. I guess the producers set the lifespan at that length for both 'reliability' and profit reasons.

However, whether my skin (high keloid levels - heals, scars and aggravates more easily) will put up with the same sensor in one place is another matter... or do you remove them, reset and then reinsert?
@ConradJ I use a preparation called skin tac to cover the adhesive tape on the sensor then let it dry then put a patch of either Hydrofilm or Tegaderm film over the adhesive to keep it dry and stopping the edges from being peeled back. The film I remove completely once a week and replace. The actual sensor is micro fine and even being in for 4 weeks has not left a mark or caused infection. The sensor has to stay put, once removed that's the end of it as no way of reinserting it.