Type 2 Use of Alpha lipoic acid in treating neuropathy

[Ellis79]

Hi all,

I am taking the aforementioned supplement - Alpha lipoic acid - to help relieve the neuropathy I get from time to time and which, as all those who have had it will know, is a real nightmare and causes acute discomfort. I could see a neurologist if I wanted to and get a prescription for one of the medications usually given for this condition such as Lyrica or Gabapentin but these are essentially anticonvulsant medications and I would rather manage without them if at all possible.

I would be interested to hear if anyone else has tried Alpha lipoic acid and found it helpful for neuropathy or has tried any other medications or vitamin supplements that can treat the symptoms effectively.

Thanks,

Ellis79

 

[Fishtoo]

Hi all,

I am taking the aforementioned supplement - Alpha lipoic acid - to help relieve the neuropathy I get from time to time and which, as all those who have had it will know, is a real nightmare and causes acute discomfort. I could see a neurologist if I wanted to and get a prescription for one of the medications usually given for this condition such as Lyrica or Gabapentin but these are essentially anticonvulsant medications and I would rather manage without them if at all possible.

I would be interested to hear if anyone else has tried Alpha lipoic acid and found it helpful for neuropathy or has tried any other medications or vitamin supplements that can treat the symptoms effectively.

Thanks,

Ellis79

Hi Ellis, I am interested in your use of Alpha Lipoic acid...can you tell me more about it? Are you taking the oral or the intravenous form?
Thanks, Hilary

 

[jack412]

The problem is to get someone to fund a proper study, But germany might be your best source for info and as a Dr, you can do your own IV
a quick google found this dutch study
http://www.njmonline.nl/getpdf.php?id=10000574
C o n c l u s i o n
The intravenous administration of alpha lipoic acid leads
to clinically relevant improvement of painful diabetic
neuropathy in the short term. Unfortunately, there are
not yet any results on its administration over a longer
time period. The results we have seen are encouraging
enough to recommend intravenous alpha lipoic acid for
the treatment of diabetic neuropathy. The improvements
seen with the oral administration of alpha lipoic acid are
much less clearly described, and additional research will be
necessary to investigate its effects. We do not recommend
the use of orally administered alpha lipoic acid for the
treatment of diabetic neuropathy at this time.


Source: Alpha-lipoic acid | University of Maryland Medical Center
http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/alphalipoic-acid#ixzz3JhC3Qj36

Diabetes
In several studies, alpha-lipoic acid appears to help lower blood sugar levels. Its ability to kill free radicals may help people with diabetic peripheral neuropathy, who have pain, burning, itching, tingling, and numbness in arms and legs from nerve damage.

Alpha-lipoic acid has been used for years to treat peripheral neuropathy in Germany. Most of the studies that have found it helps have used intravenous (IV) alpha-lipoic acid, however. It’s not clear whether taking alpha-lipoic acid by mouth will help. Most studies of oral alpha-lipoic acid have been small and poorly designed. One 2006 study did find that taking alpha-lipoic acid for diabetic neuropathy reduced symptoms compared to placebo.

Taking alpha-lipoic acid may help another diabetes-related condition called autonomic neuropathy, which affects the nerves to internal organs. One study found that 73 people with cardiac autonomic neuropathy, which affects the heart, showed fewer signs of the condition when taking 800 mg of alpha-lipoic acid orally compared to placebo.

 

[Fishtoo]

The problem is to get someone to fund a proper study, But germany might be your best source for info and as a Dr, you can do your own IV
a quick google found this dutch study
http://www.njmonline.nl/getpdf.php?id=10000574
C o n c l u s i o n
The intravenous administration of alpha lipoic acid leads
to clinically relevant improvement of painful diabetic
neuropathy in the short term. Unfortunately, there are
not yet any results on its administration over a longer
time period. The results we have seen are encouraging
enough to recommend intravenous alpha lipoic acid for
the treatment of diabetic neuropathy. The improvements
seen with the oral administration of alpha lipoic acid are
much less clearly described, and additional research will be
necessary to investigate its effects. We do not recommend
the use of orally administered alpha lipoic acid for the
treatment of diabetic neuropathy at this time.


Source: Alpha-lipoic acid | University of Maryland Medical Center
http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/alphalipoic-acid#ixzz3JhC3Qj36

Diabetes
In several studies, alpha-lipoic acid appears to help lower blood sugar levels. Its ability to kill free radicals may help people with diabetic peripheral neuropathy, who have pain, burning, itching, tingling, and numbness in arms and legs from nerve damage.

Alpha-lipoic acid has been used for years to treat peripheral neuropathy in Germany. Most of the studies that have found it helps have used intravenous (IV) alpha-lipoic acid, however. It’s not clear whether taking alpha-lipoic acid by mouth will help. Most studies of oral alpha-lipoic acid have been small and poorly designed. One 2006 study did find that taking alpha-lipoic acid for diabetic neuropathy reduced symptoms compared to placebo.

Taking alpha-lipoic acid may help another diabetes-related condition called autonomic neuropathy, which affects the nerves to internal organs. One study found that 73 people with cardiac autonomic neuropathy, which affects the heart, showed fewer signs of the condition when taking 800 mg of alpha-lipoic acid orally compared to placebo.

Thanks for that info Jack,
I'm hoping it won't come to that, my symptoms are very minor at the moment, and i have every hope that the cause was the excess Pyridoxine that I had been taking without realising...I take Magnesium daily which controls my idiopathic ventricular tachycardia ( with failed ablation attempt) and I had not noticed a fairly hefty dose of Vit B 6 had been added,,,and was also taking some in a mutivit tablet and a Vit B formulation...very careless!!!
So hopeful it will gradually resolve over the next 6 months, tho it HAS drawn my attention to a HbA1c of 40....and to this very interesting and supportive forum!

 

[jack412]

The chelators used in Dr Cutler's protocol are ALA, DMSA and sometimes DMPS.ALA (Alpha Lipoic Acid - an antioxidant)

• Removes mercury & arsenic from the brain
• Does not remove lead
• Available over the counter
• Must be given every 3 hours (may stretch to 4 hours overnight)
• Not to be usedby anyone with mercury exposure in the past 3 months

(including people who have received a flu shot, people who have been
exposed to a broken CFL bulb or have amalgam fillings.)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NaRala-Sodium-R-lipoic-acid-100-Grams-Powder-/220994013750

https://www.thieme-connect.com/DOI/DOI?10.1055/s-0029-1212132
The following conclusions can be drawn from the recent controlled clinical trials. 1.) Short-term treatment for 3 weeks using 600 mg of thioctic acid i.v. per day appears to reduce the chief symptoms of diabetic polyneuropathy. A 3-week pilot study of 1800 mg per day given orally indicates that the therapeutic effect may be independent of the route of administration, but this needs to be confirmed in a larger sample size.

 

[jack412]

Thanks for that info Jack,
I'm hoping it won't come to that, my symptoms are very minor at the moment, and i have every hope that the cause was the excess Pyridoxine that I had been taking without realising...I take Magnesium daily which controls my idiopathic ventricular tachycardia ( with failed ablation attempt) and I had not noticed a fairly hefty dose of Vit B 6 had been added,,,and was also taking some in a mutivit tablet and a Vit B formulation...very careless!!!
So hopeful it will gradually resolve over the next 6 months, tho it HAS drawn my attention to a HbA1c of 40....and to this very interesting and supportive forum!

a1c 40 should be ok with Low carb, to be honest I wouldn't worry about anything else except maybe metformin..
It's good to know a Dr can get caught self dosing too much vitamin too, that makes a few feel better here

 

[Ellis79]

Hi Ellis, I am interested in your use of Alpha Lipoic acid...can you tell me more about it? Are you taking the oral or the intravenous form?
Thanks, Hilary

Hi Hilary, I have always taken it in tablet form - I didn't actually know it could also be administered intravenously. The recommended basic daily dosage is 600mg after food, although one can take more if it feels necessary. Like any other supplement, it can take quite a while to have an effect - about a month or so - but it is obviously preferable to taking regular medication such as Lyrica or Gabapentin, which are essentially medications that act on the central nervous system. I have had stashed away in my cupboard a supply of Lyrica that I was prescribed a neurologist, in case I really suffer and nothing works at all. Fortunately it has never come to that and the bouts of neuropathy usually pass. Like all other nutritional supplements, Alpha Lipoic acid can work better for some people than others. It's a matter of trial and error really.

Here are links to a couple of pages with information about Alpha Lipoic acid, which I hope you find informative and useful.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/alpha-lipoic-acid-ala

http://www.lef.org/magazine/2007/10/nu_lipoic_acid/Page-01

Ellis

 

[Fishtoo]

a1c 40 should be ok with Low carb, to be honest I wouldn't worry about anything else except maybe metformin..
It's good to know a Dr can get caught self dosing too much vitamin too, that makes a few feel better here

Yes, I felt mighty foolish! Have always been happy for patients to take complimentary naturopathic remedies as long as they allow me to monitor their progress and usually i check every bottle for them, to make sure of safety....but never checked my own! tut tut tut...yep docs are human too!

 

[Fishtoo]

Hi Hilary, I have always taken it in tablet form - I didn't actually know it could also be administered intravenously. The recommended basic daily dosage is 600mg after food, although one can take more if it feels necessary. Like any other supplement, it can take quite a while to have an effect - about a month or so - but it is obviously preferable to taking regular medication such as Lyrica or Gabapentin, which are essentially medications that act on the central nervous system. I have had stashed away in my cupboard a supply of Lyrica that I was prescribed a neurologist, in case I really suffer and nothing works at all. Fortunately it has never come to that and the bouts of neuropathy usually pass. Like all other nutritional supplements, Alpha Lipoic acid can work better for some people than others. It's a matter of trial and error really.

Here are links to a couple of pages with information about Alpha Lipoic acid, which I hope you find informative and useful.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/alpha-lipoic-acid-ala

http://www.lef.org/magazine/2007/10/nu_lipoic_acid/Page-01

Ellis

Thank you for the references Ellis

 

[runner2009]

Hi @Ellis79 everyone is different in this IMO so it is difficult to say, but in my case my feet and toes were on fire and so were my hips in the late evening ( my major reflex when they tap your knee is completely gone ). For me the only thing that worked was low does of medical m and being very aggressive in keeping my BG level as low as possible with insulin.

In a year 1/2 my foot pain is 95% gone and hip pain is now only a little bit in the right hip. That knee reflex has never come back but I think in my case low BG was the key and medical m was fun.

 

[Fishtoo]

Hi @Ellis79 everyone is different in this IMO so it is difficult to say, but in my case my feet and toes were on fire and so were my hips in the late evening ( my major reflex when they tap your knee is completely gone ). For me the only thing that worked was low does of medical m and being very aggressive in keeping my BG level as low as possible with insulin.

In a year 1/2 my foot pain is 95% gone and hip pain is now only a little bit in the right hip. That knee reflex has never come back but I think in my case low BG was the key and medical m was fun.

What is "medical m" please Runner? I may be a doc but i am a beginner in this area!!

 

[runner2009]

What is "medical m" please Runner? I may be a doc but i am a beginner in this area!!

Don't laugh it is medical marijuana. Took a while to get the right kind and dose. I've have factor 5 so simple aspirin I can't take.

 

[Ellis79]

Hi @Ellis79 everyone is different in this IMO so it is difficult to say, but in my case my feet and toes were on fire and so were my hips in the late evening ( my major reflex when they tap your knee is completely gone ). For me the only thing that worked was low does of medical m and being very aggressive in keeping my BG level as low as possible with insulin.

In a year 1/2 my foot pain is 95% gone and hip pain is now only a little bit in the right hip. That knee reflex has never come back but I think in my case low BG was the key and medical m was fun.

BG is invariably the key in most cases, I would imagine, although neuropathy can also be set off by other problems such as a herniated disc in your lower back. Pleased to hear that you have finally got the pain under control although I imagine that you would only consider using medical m as a last resort.

 

[Fishtoo]

Don't laugh it is medical marijuana. Took a while to get the right kind and dose. I've have factor 5 so simple aspirin I can't take.

Oh what fun LOL! masses grown and around in NZ but not yet legalised for medical use here....Yes I have Factor 5 too, and another factor....so does my sister...touch wood, neither of us has had any problems yet.....

 

[runner2009]

BG is invariably the key in most cases, I would imagine, although neuropathy can also be set off by other problems such as a herniated disc in your lower back. Pleased to hear that you have finally got the pain under control although I imagine that you would only consider using medical m as a last resort.

I get the chronic pain. No fun and simple aspirin always worked for me.

I think also the fact I was a long distance runner it thought me to push through pain. I pushed through a lot this last year and 1/2 through walking and running think that activity played a part.

Honestly if you can consistently get the right stuff it works wonders and the side affects and complications seem to be way less than the big pharma choices.

 

[Fishtoo]

I think I would never try it, one because it is illegal here and think of the headlines and scandal in such a small country as this...I'l actually laughing here at the thought and the dog is looking puzzled.
2) more concerned with brain function maintanence as I age, and M irrerversibly damages brain calls for life, in everyone who takes it,, and I probably don't have many brain calls left

 

[Fishtoo]

I get the chronic pain. No fun and simple aspirin always worked for me.

I think also the fact I was a long distance runner it thought me to push through pain. I pushed through a lot this last year and 1/2 through walking and running think that activity played a part.

Honestly if you can consistently get the right stuff it works wonders and the side affects and complications seem to be way less than the big pharma choices.

I've done a lot of running but not for longer than 4 hours my slowest marathon time...really enjoyed Triathlons more.....how long were you running...do tell me more!

 

[Ellis79]

I think I would never try it, one because it is illegal here and think of the headlines and scandal in such a small country as this...I'l actually laughing here at the thought and the dog is looking puzzled.
2) more concerned with brain function maintanence as I age, and M irrerversibly damages brain calls for life, in everyone who takes it,, and I probably don't have many brain calls left

It was, or is about to be legalized here in Israel (don't recall if it has already gone through or not) - Obviously there is an intense debate for and against......

 

[Ellis79]

I get the chronic pain. No fun and simple aspirin always worked for me.

I think also the fact I was a long distance runner it thought me to push through pain. I pushed through a lot this last year and 1/2 through walking and running think that activity played a part.

Honestly if you can consistently get the right stuff it works wonders and the side affects and complications seem to be way less than the big pharma choices.

I would still say use sparingly....can't see how it would be beneficial in the long run if you became addicted to it...

 

[Fishtoo]

It was, or is about to be legalized here in Israel (don't recall if it has already gone through or not) - Obviously there is an intense debate for and against......

I suppose if I was suffering from an incurable illness with imminent demise expected, then I would be interested in taking relief even with adverse long term effects on brain function.....I personally would be happy to go along with legalisation if the prescription and warnings were carefully controlled, as with modst dangerous drugs except for Alcohol LOL