Type 2 Use of Alpha lipoic acid in treating neuropathy

[Fishtoo]

Hi Runner and Ellis,
As a Doc, I have to take a drug history on every patient i see in the hospital and it is amazing how honest most are about their recreational cannabis use..it grows very easily here....very few youngsters know about the long term destruction of brain cells but when I ask whether they have met any long term middle aged users, and state they are probably gradually becoming zombies, they usually see what I mean.....
But to return to neuropathic pain...yes , very difficult to treat...I would try the small night time dose of the old antidepressants which acts as relief for chronic pain in low doses.....my neauropathy is not very painful yet...except when toes get cold, and I have not had to take any pain medication....I do as my father did( perhaps he had the same symptoms, and up-end a chair at the foot of the bed to keep the weight of the bedclothes off my toes when lying on my back....that did seem to wake me, but sleep well now...
I'm hopeful that mine is due to accidental long term overdose with Pyridoxine/Vit B 6 and will therefore slowly resolve over the next 6/12 or so....because with an A1c of only 40 and normal BS, I doubt whether I am yet a significant diabetic!
Nice talking to you both...I'm here to learn...

 

[Ellis79]

I suppose if I was suffering from an incurable illness with imminent demise expected, then I would be interested in taking relief even with adverse long term effects on brain function.....I personally would be happy to go along with legalisation if the prescription and warnings were carefully controlled, as with modst dangerous drugs except for Alcohol LOL

There is actually a biotech company here that has been developing it:

http://www.larapharm.com/

And it has even attracted some interest from the big pharma investors on Wall Street

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-...herapix-begins-wall-street-trading-1000978077

 

[Ellis79]

I get the chronic pain. No fun and simple aspirin always worked for me.

I think also the fact I was a long distance runner it thought me to push through pain. I pushed through a lot this last year and 1/2 through walking and running think that activity played a part.

Honestly if you can consistently get the right stuff it works wonders and the side affects and complications seem to be way less than the big pharma choices.

There is actually a biotech company here that has been developing it:

http://www.larapharm.com/

And it has even attracted some interest from the big pharma investors on Wall Street

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-...herapix-begins-wall-street-trading-1000978077

 

[runner2009]

Hi Runner and Ellis,
As a Doc, I have to take a drug history on every patient i see in the hospital and it is amazing how honest most are about their recreational cannabis use..it grows very easily here....very few youngsters know about the long term destruction of brain cells but when I ask whether they have met any long term middle aged users, and state they are probably gradually becoming zombies, they usually see what I mean.....
But to return to neuropathic pain...yes , very difficult to treat...I would try the small night time dose of the old antidepressants which acts as relief for chronic pain in low doses.....my neauropathy is not very painful yet...except when toes get cold, and I have not had to take any pain medication....I do as my father did( perhaps he had the same symptoms, and up-end a chair at the foot of the bed to keep the weight of the bedclothes off my toes when lying on my back....that did seem to wake me, but sleep well now...
I'm hopeful that mine is due to accidental long term overdose with Pyridoxine/Vit B 6 and will therefore slowly resolve over the next 6/12 or so....because with an A1c of only 40 and normal BS, I doubt whether I am yet a significant diabetic!
Nice talking to you both...I'm here to learn...

Hi Fishtoo

I'm not here to support or not support marijuana use recreationally or medically. In a perfect world one would not need it for either.

But I do question your statement of long term brain damage of casual to moderate use of the drug especially if one is comparing it to the long term even moderate use of alcohol to the brain and other organs.

IMO the point is how does one relive neuropathy pain with the least amount of side affects - do as little harm as possible.

This is difficult because as we all are aware neuropathy has not one cause and affects each individual differently.

Currently there is no consistent affective treatment that relives this type of pain with minimal side affects.

Chronic pain can be debilitating and how do you managed it without using powerful opiates or other drugs with side affects leaves us in a conundrum.

I was skeptical at first but in Hospital I was surprised at the number of healthcare workers who recommend it.

I found after some experimentation that it did work for me and my therapeutic dose was very low with virtually no side affects.

Thx goodness my pain has abated but in the future I would use whatever I could to reduce the pain with the minimal side affects and the lowest therapeutic dose, If it was medical marijuana then that's what I would use

 

[Fishtoo]

Hi Fishtoo

I'm not here to support or not support marijuana use recreationally or medically. In a perfect world one would not need it for either.

But I do question your statement of long term brain damage of casual to moderate use of the drug especially if one is comparing it to the long term even moderate use of alcohol to the brain and other organs.

IMO the point is how does one relive neuropathy pain with the least amount of side affects - do as little harm as possible.

This is difficult because as we all are aware neuropathy has not one cause and affects each individual differently.

Currently there is no consistent affective treatment that relives this type of pain with minimal side affects.

Chronic pain can be debilitating and how do you managed it without using powerful opiates or other drugs with side affects leaves us in a conundrum.

I was skeptical at first but in Hospital I was surprised at the number of healthcare workers who recommend it.

I found after some experimentation that it did work for me and my therapeutic dose was very low with virtually no side affects.

Thx goodness my pain has abated but in the future I would use whatever I could to reduce the pain with the minimal side affects and the lowest therapeutic dose, If it was medical marijuana then that's what I would use

Yes, I realised I was on a touchy subject roadrunner in mentioning the state of long term users in New Zealand...usuall growing their own and starting as young teenagers or even childhood....very different from medicinal m!
But talking scientific statistical studies here...no time to find references, only some brains are damaged by alcohol, whereas there is proof that m damages ALL brains.....I first read about this in a report on the Uni students in UK who had dropped out of uni when using m maily at weekends only....later they might stop the habit and try to return to university but fail the then routine IQ test...they were then followed up, and their brainfunction apparent did not improve....later ofcourse we have much more sophisticated and accurate methods of studying the brain and its function and structure.
I'm not an expert on this subject and I think there are few things worse than chronic pain....which I have been fortunate never to have exoerienced so far...but my fear of that is one reason why I am exploring everybody's ideas on this site......so thank you very much for sharing....
At present parents are having to leave NZ to take their epileptic childen to a country with legalised medical m....so yes, it does have amazing medical advntages.

 

[runner2009]

Yes, I realised I was on a touchy subject roadrunner in mentioning the state of long term users in New Zealand...usuall growing their own and starting as young teenagers or even childhood....very different from medicinal m!
But talking scientific statistical studies here...no time to find references, only some brains are damaged by alcohol, whereas there is proof that m damages ALL brains.....I first read about this in a report on the Uni students in UK who had dropped out of uni when using m maily at weekends only....later they might stop the habit and try to return to university but fail the then routine IQ test...they were then followed up, and their brainfunction apparent did not improve....later ofcourse we have much more sophisticated and accurate methods of studying the brain and its function and structure.
I'm not an expert on this subject and I think there are few things worse than chronic pain....which I have been fortunate never to have exoerienced so far...but my fear of that is one reason why I am exploring everybody's ideas on this site......so thank you very much for sharing....
At present parents are having to leave NZ to take their epileptic childen to a country with legalised medical m....so yes, it does have amazing medical advntages.

Haha, no worries here I don't know either. IMO, all things can cause damage even aspirin in some. Alcohol can help certain groups of people from a cardiovascular standpoint but the therapeutic dose and the abuse amount where it damages other organs is very close to one another and in the end most people can't just stop at the therapeutic level.

Perhaps ALL people have changes to their brain structures, but I am not aware of studies that show small changes definitively changes cognition negatively.

Some people taking certain classes of SSRIs have profound changes to their neurons that they never can change back.

My only real point is that chronic pain can be dehubiltating and difficult to treat - especially neuropathies . pain management with the least amount of substances with the least side affects with the greatest relief - extremely difficult.

Love the discussion. See your husband was an orthopedic, so was my father ( my GF is a OBGYN ) here we call orthos the cowboys of the medical field.

 

[Fishtoo]

Haha, no worries here I don't know either. IMO, all things can cause damage even aspirin in some. Alcohol can help certain groups of people from a cardiovascular standpoint but the therapeutic dose and the abuse amount where it damages other organs is very close to one another and in the end most people can't just stop at the therapeutic level.

Perhaps ALL people have changes to their brain structures, but I am not aware of studies that show small changes definitively changes cognition negatively.

Some people taking certain classes of SSRIs have profound changes to their neurons that they never can change back.

My only real point is that chronic pain can be dehubiltating and difficult to treat - especially neuropathies . pain management with the least amount of substances with the least side affects with the greatest relief - extremely difficult.

Love the discussion. See your husband was an orthopedic, so was my father ( my GF is a OBGYN ) here we call orthos the cowboys of the medical field.

And cowboys is what Roger used to say of most of his colleagues! Being trained under Cyriax at STH he was usually trying to discourage his patients from insisting on surgery and to try bio-mechanical and other physical medicine approaches instead first.
Is there any difficulty at staying at the recommended dose of M?
I too enjoy discussion, but it can easily become an argument with some

 

[runner2009]

And cowboys is what Roger used to say of most of his colleagues! Being trained under Cyriax at STH he was usually trying to discourage his patients from insisting on surgery and to try bio-mechanical and other physical medicine approaches instead first.
Is there any difficulty at staying at the recommended dose of M?
I too enjoy discussion, but it can easily become an argument with some

Argumentive is good as long as we aren't flaming and name calling one another.

Good point about the dosage of m - when I used it it was mostly in edible form, but standardization IMO was and is a problem. Seemed very subjective and the people in the clinic reminded me of the grower / stoners I knew in University.

Luckily I'm not having to use it right now. I always relied on aspirin until I found out I was factor 5 - after throwing a PE during a run.

To me aspirin is a wonder drug if you can tolerate it.

 

[Fishtoo]

Argumentive is good as long as we aren't flaming and name calling one another.

Good point about the dosage of m - when I used it it was mostly in edible form, but standardization IMO was and is a problem. Seemed very subjective and the people in the clinic reminded me of the grower / stoners I knew in University.

Luckily I'm not having to use it right now. I always relied on aspirin until I found out I was factor 5 - after throwing a PE during a run.

To me aspirin is a wonder drug if you can tolerate it.

Ah, should have read this first Runner...so you may have had a DVT in your leg at the time or did the embolus come from higher up the venous system I wonder?

I'm not quite sure why you are not allowed aspirin now? Is that because you are on anticoagulants?

My two thrombogenic factors were discovered when my dratted daughter suggested i take part in a DVT study on long flights...I was flying to UK so volunteered...afterwards our blood was tested...2 factors in mine, was phoned to see whether I had any symptoms in legs, I said yes, I strained a gastroc on a run this morning, they said come right in, I said ...sorry , it is NOT a dvt and I have a surgery full of patients...anyway they continued to fuss and eventually opened up the scanner late that night...no blood clots anywhere..

Apparently 30% of the 1000 studied had dvts.... many very small and not symptomatic., so they were most surprised that i was clear.....must have another unknown factor cancelling out the other two...they said!

but i do wear elastic stockings on flights...and on long drives etc....otherwise, I wish I didn't know.....strong family history of PE and stroke on both sides..my younger .sister has both factors too but doesn't risk long flights any more.....she is a "good patient"