Bovine insulin

[Beaver Lee]

Being clear about reasons for wanting to change to animal insulin is a good question and the one that has been troubling before Thursdays GP appointment. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
wildfire

S - Sustainable
Bovine insulin is not reliant on modern technology. Although our son is "at home" with modern technology he does not want "a box stuck to me." When financial considerations are looked at, as in India, then Bovine insulin is considered a safe, viable and cost effective life saving source:

"Bovine Porcine and Human Insulin. A present day comparative appraisal and policy discussions."
Professor SAM. G. P. MOSES. B.Sc., M.D., F.R.C.P., D.Sc.,
http://www.iddtindia.org/downloads/bovine_porcine.pdf
Pages 3-16
" The long experience with natural insulin, bovine insulin has been extremely satisfying both for the patients as well as their physicians especially after the availability of monocomponent natural insulins ...

Onset of action synthetic insulin has been found to be faster by about 15 minutes due to its rapid absorption. This effect however has been found to have nonbearing on the overall glycemic control achieved, though offlate there have been several reports of hypoglycemia unawareness following the use of synthetic insulin ...
The major projected benefit of GE insulin viz-substantial reduction in cost has never been realised. We do not know why? Paradoxically despite 20 years of technology use of production the cost of synthetically produced insulin continues to mount threatening to price out of existence those who depend on it for treatment. Unlike in the west treatment cost of most Indian patients is not met by insurance and patients have to fund for themselves. There is also the problem of inadequate manpower for patient education...

Incidentally the mutual natural analogues were very safe no mitogenicity) (no cardiogenesis) no other side effect unlike the present day analogues like "Glargine" , Long acting analogues & even pro insulin analogues etc with various contradictory harmful reports here and there.

... Diabetics need to apply for long-term guinea pig status ..." [check this out! This is really in the paper!]

 

[Beaver Lee]

Being clear about reasons for wanting to change to animal insulin is a good question and the one that has been troubling before Thursdays GP appointment. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
wildfire

S - Sustainable cont.,
Quote continuing from Professor SAM. G. P. MOSES. B.Sc., M.D., F.R.C.P., D.Sc.,
http://www.iddtindia.org/downloads/bovine_porcine.pdf
Pages 3-16
"When you need cost effective solutions in diabetes care, considering the above scenario, certainly the availability of bovine insulin at Rs.65/vial will protect the fundamental right to health and right to life of the Indian Diabetic.

♦ Insulin has been available for therapeutic purposes for over 80 years since Banting & Best 1922. The earliest Therapeutic preparation were obtained from Beef Pancreas - first animal insulin in clinical practice.

♦ Bovine Insulin more "Polymeric" situation for long time (action of insulin polymer dimer monomer) & hence Bovine is able to constitute True ultra lente effects. No peak ; peakless insulin - (Human ultra Lente two peaks, not real ultra Lente).

♦ Bovine insulins are difficult to be chromatographically purified. But fortunately we are getting highly purified bovine insulin < 2ppm in India for RS 65 – 400 units IU .

♦ Bovine Insulin - Less of weight gain compared to human synthetic insulins due to what effect? Experience based medicine can answer this.

♦ Bovine Insulin antibodies and antigenicity? A theoretical discussion: Antigenicity is largely related to purity and site of action. Antigenicity is no longer a problem in causing iatrogenic complication of diabetes. Purity abolishes and overtakes Insulin resistance. Complexing with ZN, lente type insulin will exacerbate this Antigenicity. This will apply to all species of Insulins. Antigenicity and long term clinical effects are similar to any species of insulin. (Clinics in Endocrinology and Metabolism Vol. II, No 2. P.D. Home, K. G. M. M. Alberti).

♦ Bovine Insulins acceptable for religious perspective. ... not for pork, who could not afford human insulins can go for bovine insulins. Thus their right to life and right to health are well protected by keeping in mind their religious sentiments.

♦ Antibodies developed in response to bovine insulin have no functional significance: • have low affinity constant • negligible insulin neutralising power • no clinical insulin resistance • daily insulin dose within physiological range. *Diabetes research and clinical Practice 49 (2000) 7 –15

♦ There is no relationship between Antibodies produced by insulin and long term complications like retinopathy, neuropathy and nephropathy.

♦ Low cost bovine insulin is as effective as human insulin – JAMA INDIA – Physician Update, April 2001 Vol. 4, N0 4."

 

[Beaver Lee]

Being clear about reasons for wanting to change to animal insulin is a good question and the one that has been troubling before Thursdays GP appointment. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
wildfire

S - Safer
We acknowledge that even though insulin is life saving, that all insulin is potentially dangerous and should be used with the utmost caution.

The dangers were outlined by Dr Arthur Teuscher, Emeritus Professor of Diabetology at the University of Bern Medical School after he was deeply affected by the death of one of his patients who had chosen to switch to "human" (synthetic) insulin. He established without doubt that "human" insulin is indeed less safe than natural insulin in some diabetics. This information is from Dr Arthur Teuscher's book, "Insulin A Voice for Choice".

Statistically animal insulin has less recorded deaths from the "dead-in-bed" syndrome than "human" (synthetic) insulin.

Toronto Star
February 7, 2002 Thursday Ontario Edition
Insulin inquiry urged
Prithi Yelaja
"Safety of synthetic product called into question
A group representing Canadian diabetics is calling for a public inquiry after uncovering reports of eight deaths and 465 adverse drug reactions linked to genetically engineered insulin.
The Society for Diabetic Rights held a news conference in Ottawa yesterday and demanded that Health Canada ensure greater access to an older form of insulin derived from pork and beef. There have been only nine reports of adverse reactions to pork insulin, and none to beef insulin."

 

[Beaver Lee]

Being clear about reasons for wanting to change to animal insulin is a good question and the one that has been troubling before Thursdays GP appointment. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
wildfire

E - Existing Regimen.
Our son's choice is to continue with his existing regimen.
That is a basal-bolus regimen

D - Driving License.
Many people have found a return to hypo-awareness when changing to animal insulin from synthetic insulin. These autonomous warnings are really important.
An article coauthored by diabetes Consultant Phil Coates in the Journal of Diabetes Nursing, Vol 15, No1, 2011 page 33:
"In order to minimise the impact of hypoglycaemia, early warning symptoms are desirable (Forbes, 2001). Reduced or absent warning signs have been reported following a switch to a different insulin, sometimes associated with, but not exclusive to, the introduction of human insulin (Teuscher, 2007). The slower rate of absorption of animal insulins may be associated with a slower onset of hypoglycaemia and a corresponding increase in detection of warning signs (Teuscher, 2007). A reduction of warning signs has been noted in intensive insulin regimens, such as CSII therapy (Porte et al, 2003), and the potential for minimisation of the reduction in hypoglycaemic warning signs through the use of animal insulin may be particularly attractive to certain people with diabetes."
http://www.iddt.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/JDN15-1pg32-6.pdf

Being a safe driver and keeping his Driving License and are our son's top priory.

I hope that these haven't swamped you!

I've managed to fit it onto a 3 page PDF.

Hope that you have a really good visit

Beaver Lee

 

[tim2000s]

I have a Hypothetical Question. What if his warning signs on Bovine Insulin are exactly the same as on Human?

 

[Beaver Lee]

I have a Hypothetical Question. What if his warning signs on Bovine Insulin are exactly the same as on Human?

Hi Tim
How are you doing?
As you can see from the notes posted above we believe that the change will be better for his health.
This will be swapping almost like for like:
So, Hypurin Bovine Lente for Lantus Glargine.
And Hypurin Bovine Neutral (short acting) for NovoRapid (rapid acting).
Our son's meals (GAPS diet) are made with fats for energy as well as some carbs so he needs to change his bolus insulin anyway as the rapid action insulin is too quick.
The hypo warning signs aren't the only issues that we are concerned about.
We will let you know how things go, once he has had the bovine insulin prescribed.
Then it won't be a hypothetical question any more.

Hope things are going okay for you too.
Beaver Lee

 

[CarbsRok]

Our son's meals (GAPS diet) are made with fats for energy as well as some carbs so he needs to change his bolus insulin anyway as the rapid action insulin is too quick.

I doubt he will get any better results with bovine insulin for high fat meals even if he injects after he has eaten the meal. Duration of the insulin can be up to 8 hours for some people so do be warned.

 

[Beaver Lee]

I doubt he will get any better results with bovine insulin for high fat meals even if he injects after he has eaten the meal. Duration of the insulin can be up to 8 hours for some people so do be warned.

Thanks for this.
He is ready for watching things closely and working through the transition period.
We will keep you posted.
Really appreciate your help.
Thanks a lot
Beaver Lee

 

[tim2000s]

As someone who eats LCHF, I'd mention that short acting insulin has to be timed with eating. I'm sure it doesn't matter what the insulin is. I've found Novorapid is relatively easy to account for timing with, and also to manage amounts.

 

[jack412]

something here may help, the rules are the same

There is an online course for background and an idea to it. Free to register

http://www.bdec-e-learning.com/


This set of workbooks are worth reading and practising working examples of carbs and doses and corrections. Don't change dose without nurse approval


Workbook 1

http://www.diabetesinscotland.org.uk/Publications/9225 Carbohydrate Counting.pdf


Workbook 2

http://www.diabetesinscotland.org.uk/Publications/9226 Carbohydrate Counting the Next Steps.pdf


Carb list

http://www.diabetesinscotland.org.uk/Publications/9227 Carbohydrate Tables A6.pdf


Diary

http://www.diabetesinscotland.org.uk/Publications/9228 Free Diary Portrait A4.pdf


Basal testing

http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?page_id=120


Sick day rules

http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?page_id=141

http://www.diabetes-healthnet.ac.uk...flet_-_Sick_Day_Rules_for_Type_1_-_Nov_13.pdf

Sick day rules flowchart

http://www.leicestershirediabetes.org.uk/uploads//documents/Type1 Sick_day_rules_InsulinV3.pdf

Splitting background insulin recommended

http://www.dafne.uk.com/uploads/223...on 1 - September 2013 - Insulin statement.pdf


http://behavioraldiabetesinstitute.org/print-preview/BDITeenEtiquette.pdf


http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Teens/Help-and-support/We-can-help/Careline/

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/careline


A workbook with USA numbers and math rules, but it has a good trouble shoot at the end

http://www.bd.com/us/diabetes/download/insulin_adjustment_workbook_complete.pdf

 

[Jaylee]

Hi,
I'm going to let you know something.. Bovine insulin hypos hit you harder & faster.. If the lad don't work out he's low? It will bring him down...
I've been diabetic for 38 years.I was brought up on the stuff. Trained on it the hard way with glass syringes & never passed out. However, coming back up from a low while treating was difficult to blag in a social situation...
Been using human for 20 years & still hypo aware.. It even wakes me up but I can still function to help myself...
It's the loosing consciousness & needing medical assistance that scuppers the driving licence...

 

[CarbsRok]

Hi,
I'm going to let you know something.. Bovine insulin hypos hit you harder & faster.. If the lad don't work out he's low? It will bring him down...
I've been diabetic for 38 years.I was brought up on the stuff. Trained on it the hard way with glass syringes & never passed out. However, coming back up from a low while treating was difficult to blag in a social situation...
Been using human for 20 years & still hypo aware.. It even wakes me up but I can still function to help myself...
It's the loosing consciousness & needing medical assistance that scuppers the driving licence...

Then again I've used the stuff for almost 50 years full hypo warnings still with plenty of warning and easy to fix

 

[Jaylee]

Then again I've used the stuff for almost 50 years full hypo warnings still with plenty of warning and easy to fix

Agreed. Just as easy to fix.. I just fancy to anyone not used to it, the hypo effects on bovine could be a little too "brassy" compared to human..

 

[jack412]

Then again I've used the stuff for almost 50 years full hypo warnings still with plenty of warning and easy to fix

Just curious..seeing you have been on animal for 50 years...have your tried pig insulin, they say it's closer to human than cow and I wonder about the difference?

 

[CarbsRok]

Just curious..seeing you have been on animal for 50 years...have your tried pig insulin, they say it's closer to human than cow and I wonder about the difference?

Yes have tried it and highly allergic to it. My blood sugars would go from 0 to 30 within an hour then back down again. No hypo warnings either.