hello all, does anybody know of a way to help lower ketone levels (apart from drinking loads of water.).
KETONES
- Thread starter timo2
- Start Date
Timo,
The presence of ketones in your urine is an early sign of diabetic ketoacidosis, which is a very serious complaint. The advice is to drink water, take as little exercise as possible, and see your GP immediately.
This information might help:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-and-ketones.html
The presence of ketones in your urine is an early sign of diabetic ketoacidosis, which is a very serious complaint. The advice is to drink water, take as little exercise as possible, and see your GP immediately.
This information might help:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-and-ketones.html
If you have ketones make sure you eat regularly, little bits often AVOID fruit as its high in natural sugars. If your sugars aren't high make an appointment with your GP to check for an underlying infection.
I suffered with ketoacidosis alot as a kid!
Kim
I suffered with ketoacidosis alot as a kid!
Kim
am i right in thinking that ketone levels rise as part of your bodys responce to hypo?
the reason i asked about lowering ketone levels was because i often get quite big highs (18+)
after a hypo and this can usually last for 5-6 hours depending on how bad the hypo is.
assuming the raised sugars are caused by raised ketone levels it would be quite handy to "flush"
the system and get things back level as quickly as possible.
i have tried drinking pints and pints of water but dont find it makes a massive difference.
i also find that using extra insulin in this situation is a bit hit and miss.
the reason i asked about lowering ketone levels was because i often get quite big highs (18+)
after a hypo and this can usually last for 5-6 hours depending on how bad the hypo is.
assuming the raised sugars are caused by raised ketone levels it would be quite handy to "flush"
the system and get things back level as quickly as possible.
i have tried drinking pints and pints of water but dont find it makes a massive difference.
i also find that using extra insulin in this situation is a bit hit and miss.
Hi Timo,
Ketones occur as a result of the body having to break down fat for energy because it can't get the energy any other way. This is why the presence of ketones is often what alerts a GP to the fact that a patient is diabetic. Either there is no insulin being produced, or the insulin isn't able to metabolise blood sugar into energy, so the body has to get its energy from fat stores instead.
The raised sugars aren't caused by raised ketones. It sounds like when you have a hypo you are over-compensating in trying to get your sugar levels back up and are ending up miles too high. Using extra insulin when your blood sugars are high would certainly lower the sugar levels but doesn't appear to be helping with your ketone levels. To me (with no medical qualifications!) that sounds like you may have a great deal of insulin resistance - you wouldn't happen to be quite overweight by any chance?
If you haven't already done so, you need to discuss with your GP what might be causing the ketones and how to get the ketone levels down.
Ketones occur as a result of the body having to break down fat for energy because it can't get the energy any other way. This is why the presence of ketones is often what alerts a GP to the fact that a patient is diabetic. Either there is no insulin being produced, or the insulin isn't able to metabolise blood sugar into energy, so the body has to get its energy from fat stores instead.
The raised sugars aren't caused by raised ketones. It sounds like when you have a hypo you are over-compensating in trying to get your sugar levels back up and are ending up miles too high. Using extra insulin when your blood sugars are high would certainly lower the sugar levels but doesn't appear to be helping with your ketone levels. To me (with no medical qualifications!) that sounds like you may have a great deal of insulin resistance - you wouldn't happen to be quite overweight by any chance?
If you haven't already done so, you need to discuss with your GP what might be causing the ketones and how to get the ketone levels down.
im 6'3" 13 st
on 10x2 lantus
6,7,9 novorapid
i've done a little research on the tinternet and from what i can gather its actually adrenaline
which causes high blood sugars after a hypo. the bigger the hypo then the more adrenaline
your body releases as a stress responce to the low sugars and excess of insulin.
so in theory you need to flush out/counteract the adrenaline in order to get blood sugars back
down quicker after a low.
it also appears that the presence of adrenaline can encourage ketone levels to rise.
the most obvious way i can think of to get rid of adrenaline is to burn it off with some
form of exercise.
then just sit back and wait for another hypo. :wink:
on 10x2 lantus
6,7,9 novorapid
i've done a little research on the tinternet and from what i can gather its actually adrenaline
which causes high blood sugars after a hypo. the bigger the hypo then the more adrenaline
your body releases as a stress responce to the low sugars and excess of insulin.
so in theory you need to flush out/counteract the adrenaline in order to get blood sugars back
down quicker after a low.
it also appears that the presence of adrenaline can encourage ketone levels to rise.
the most obvious way i can think of to get rid of adrenaline is to burn it off with some
form of exercise.
then just sit back and wait for another hypo. :wink:
Hi All,
Just thought I'd add my thoughts to this, tho' I am no expert!! I think high blood glucose levels need to be differentiated from high Ketone levels, and those again from hypos.
You can be ketotic with low blood glucose levels, although it is true that often high glucose levels and high ketones occur together. Both of these need insulin. Ketones occur when there is a relative lack of insulin in the body, not enough to cover your need for 'basal' or 'background' insulin. On top of that, to bring your blood glucose down, you need extra 'bolus' insulin to bring your glucose levels down. So if you are on the basal/bolus regime (eg Lantus or Levemir plus Novorapid) and are ketotic often, then perhaps you should discuss raising your doses of both insulins with your healthcare teams.
My understanding is that if you have enough insulin in your system you will not get ketotic, even if you have the occasional high blood glucose reading. And of course your HbA1c will improve too
!
Caitlin x
Just thought I'd add my thoughts to this, tho' I am no expert!! I think high blood glucose levels need to be differentiated from high Ketone levels, and those again from hypos.
You can be ketotic with low blood glucose levels, although it is true that often high glucose levels and high ketones occur together. Both of these need insulin. Ketones occur when there is a relative lack of insulin in the body, not enough to cover your need for 'basal' or 'background' insulin. On top of that, to bring your blood glucose down, you need extra 'bolus' insulin to bring your glucose levels down. So if you are on the basal/bolus regime (eg Lantus or Levemir plus Novorapid) and are ketotic often, then perhaps you should discuss raising your doses of both insulins with your healthcare teams.
My understanding is that if you have enough insulin in your system you will not get ketotic, even if you have the occasional high blood glucose reading. And of course your HbA1c will improve too
!Caitlin x
Hiya,
I agree with Miss Fed Up, but would also like to add that we have been told (by my daughter's consultant) that exercise whilst ketotic can actually make matters worse as if the body cannot access glucose to fuel muscles that are working hard (because it is stuck in the bloodstream), then the body will burn it's fat stores intead, thus creating more ketones. So exercise is only okay for reducing blood sugar levels if there is enough insulin there to begin with, and if that was the case, there should not be a problem with ketones in the first place!
Hope this makes sense!!
diabetesmum
I agree with Miss Fed Up, but would also like to add that we have been told (by my daughter's consultant) that exercise whilst ketotic can actually make matters worse as if the body cannot access glucose to fuel muscles that are working hard (because it is stuck in the bloodstream), then the body will burn it's fat stores intead, thus creating more ketones. So exercise is only okay for reducing blood sugar levels if there is enough insulin there to begin with, and if that was the case, there should not be a problem with ketones in the first place!
Hope this makes sense!!
diabetesmum
I have had ketones before. I have been diabetic since I was 5 and I am 18 now. I think I got ketones when I was about 14 or 15. My blood sugar was very high and I remember my dad ringing an emergency number and a man answered and well me and my dad thought that I would have to go to the hospital and I would have to go on a pump to get my bloods down but the man said I can use my humalog and I had to keep giving myself doses of that every hour I think it was until they came down and they came down eventually. I was quite young then though so I was scared of going to the hospital
How often should you check for Ketones?
I am a newbie T1 and am suffering with regular hypos at the moment, should i be testing for Ketones after a hypo?
Gaz
I am a newbie T1 and am suffering with regular hypos at the moment, should i be testing for Ketones after a hypo?
Gaz
hi gaz,
when i originaly asked the question about ketones i was really getting mixed up between
ketones and adrenaline.
you'll know if you've been getting hypos that afterwards you go sky high - well that high
is caused by your body realeasing adrenaline as a stress response to the low sugar levels.
sometimes the high can last for quite a few hours after a bad hypo.
this link might explain it better.
http://www.netwellness.org/question.cfm/27344.htm
both the adrenaline and the cortisol released during hypo will raise blood sugars -
sometimes by quite a lot.
but in answer to your question - no you don't need to test for ketones after a hypo because
so long as you have enough insulin in your system your ketone levels wont rise - as was
mentioned by caitlin earlier in this thread.
when i originaly asked the question about ketones i was really getting mixed up between
ketones and adrenaline.
you'll know if you've been getting hypos that afterwards you go sky high - well that high
is caused by your body realeasing adrenaline as a stress response to the low sugar levels.
sometimes the high can last for quite a few hours after a bad hypo.
this link might explain it better.
http://www.netwellness.org/question.cfm/27344.htm
both the adrenaline and the cortisol released during hypo will raise blood sugars -
sometimes by quite a lot.
but in answer to your question - no you don't need to test for ketones after a hypo because
so long as you have enough insulin in your system your ketone levels wont rise - as was
mentioned by caitlin earlier in this thread.
The only time I have been aware of having ketones was on Diagnosis Day, when they wanted to hospitalise me for having a BG of 30+ and peeing out my body weight in ketones and glucose.
I think it sounds like you are over correcting your hypo's. Technically if you have a low, you should be aiming to return your BG to "normal" (I go for 6), by taking the amount of carbs you need to raise it 2-3 units.
Plus you need a mix of quick acting and slow acting carbs; a mouthful of lucozade and a slice of bread for example.
There is no reason at all to have a BG of 18 following a hypo
I think it sounds like you are over correcting your hypo's. Technically if you have a low, you should be aiming to return your BG to "normal" (I go for 6), by taking the amount of carbs you need to raise it 2-3 units.
Plus you need a mix of quick acting and slow acting carbs; a mouthful of lucozade and a slice of bread for example.
There is no reason at all to have a BG of 18 following a hypo
I agree with you LesleyB, there's no real reason for blood sugars to run high after a hypo unless you overcorrect with your Mars Bar. If you get enough fast acting carbohydrate down you to raise your blood glucose by 3 or 4 mmol/l, then that's all you need. There's little worse than a hypo, followed by a hyper, another correction shot, then the cycle begins again.....
Adrenaline and cortisol will raise your blood sugar too, the old flight or fight thing, but not enough to send you into double figures. Not in my experience at least.
All the best,
fergus
Adrenaline and cortisol will raise your blood sugar too, the old flight or fight thing, but not enough to send you into double figures. Not in my experience at least.
All the best,
fergus
hello LesleyB,
The next time you have a really nasty hypo (were talking about a proper "tate and lyle" moment)
then test your sugar an hour later - i bet it'll be fine. But test you sugar 3-4 hours later
and the chances are you'll be as high as a kite no matter how you dealt with the hypo.
I understand what you're saying about the over correction, but also remember that some
people will get a stronger reaction to hypos than others. Obviously the biggest factor will be the
speed and extent to which the sugar level drops(how badly you overdosed with insulin), but
the reaction will also vary depending on how often you go hypo. The more often you hypo
then the less strongly your body reacts(and vise-versa).
or something like that :wink:
The only thing i will add is that since i've changed my single nightime dose of lantus to twice daily the reactive hyperglycemia after a hypo isn't as bad. I had a problem with my lantus not going the full 24 hours (despite having lows first thing in the morning). Bear in mind that i'd find my
sugars rising from late afternoon onwards on the single dose of lantus. Any hypo and subsiqent
high that would happen from late afternoon onward was exaggerated by the lack of basal insulin.
The next time you have a really nasty hypo (were talking about a proper "tate and lyle" moment)
then test your sugar an hour later - i bet it'll be fine. But test you sugar 3-4 hours later
and the chances are you'll be as high as a kite no matter how you dealt with the hypo.
I understand what you're saying about the over correction, but also remember that some
people will get a stronger reaction to hypos than others. Obviously the biggest factor will be the
speed and extent to which the sugar level drops(how badly you overdosed with insulin), but
the reaction will also vary depending on how often you go hypo. The more often you hypo
then the less strongly your body reacts(and vise-versa).
or something like that :wink:
The only thing i will add is that since i've changed my single nightime dose of lantus to twice daily the reactive hyperglycemia after a hypo isn't as bad. I had a problem with my lantus not going the full 24 hours (despite having lows first thing in the morning). Bear in mind that i'd find my
sugars rising from late afternoon onwards on the single dose of lantus. Any hypo and subsiqent
high that would happen from late afternoon onward was exaggerated by the lack of basal insulin.
