Big question - statins or not

[suejat]

There was a huge study carried out in America recently by an independant group which found that taking blood pressure lowering meds, and statins made no difference to the risk of stroke and heart attack. All the meds did was to very effectively lower cholesterol and blood pressure!!! Something the group said which is unecessary in normal people (including diabetics, as statins have recently been linked with raising BG) The problem with lowering so called "bad" cholesterol too far is that it is an essential part of cell renewal and repair (it's a vital component of every cell membrane in the body, and is rushed too the site of any trauma or injury in any part of the body) and so repair can be impaired. High cholesterol levels are a symptom, not the disease itself, and it's only when the cholesterol becomes oxidised that it clogs things up. When you you look at all the figures, and see that over 70% of people having heart attacks have normal to LOW levels of cholesterol it makes you wonder---

Incidentally this study mentioned earlier also found that lowering BP below 150/90 for over 60's had absolutely no benefit either, (although those with NATURALLY low BP had some sort of natural protection against heart disease and stroke) and these are the figures that the WHO are now recommending in their new guidelines. Perhaps cholesterol levels will follow. Many people have found that by increasing exercise, and eating lots if anti inflammatory foods, ther cholesterol levels drop dramatically quite naturally.

 

[Janiept]

That's a really interesting post suejat, thanks for sharing it.
Do you have the name of the study please?

 

[wizardo]

There was a huge study carried out in America recently by an independant group which found that taking blood pressure lowering meds, and statins made no difference to the risk of stroke and heart attack. All the meds did was to very effectively lower cholesterol and blood pressure!!! Something the group said which is unecessary in normal people (including diabetics, as statins have recently been linked with raising BG) The problem with lowering so called "bad" cholesterol too far is that it is an essential part of cell renewal and repair (it's a vital component of every cell membrane in the body, and is rushed too the site of any trauma or injury in any part of the body) and so repair can be impaired. High cholesterol levels are a symptom, not the disease itself, and it's only when the cholesterol becomes oxidised that it clogs things up. When you you look at all the figures, and see that over 70% of people having heart attacks have normal to LOW levels of cholesterol it makes you wonder---

Incidentally this study mentioned earlier also found that lowering BP below 150/90 for over 60's had absolutely no benefit either, (although those with NATURALLY low BP had some sort of natural protection against heart disease and stroke) and these are the figures that the WHO are now recommending in their new guidelines. Perhaps cholesterol levels will follow. Many people have found that by increasing exercise, and eating lots if anti inflammatory foods, ther cholesterol levels drop dramatically quite naturally.

Incidentally, my understanding is that GPs receive a bonus for getting patients on statins. From my reading, if you have had a stroke/heart attack they can be of benefit. But as a preventative measure, very questionable. The diabetic nurses have told me how foolish I was to reject them. After all, they have great knowledge on the topic, I don't think!

 

[wd6ecc]

Happy with my last HBA1 at 46 - lowest since diagnosis in 2007. However, once again my GP said Cholesterol is a little high for a diabetic and raised the issue of statins saying it decreases heart disease risk. I have read so many reports of bad reactions to statins, just wondering what the good people on this forum have to say on the subject, good or bad?

nope statins can cause liver damage why would you want to do that

 

[Indy51]

Zoe Harcombe has written a recent blogpost on the subject: http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2015/03/worried-about-cholesterol-andor-statins/

One of the interesting links in the blogpost is about how "normal" keeps being redefined (lowered) on a range of medical issues that can conveniently be treated by drugs - BG, BP and cholesterol. Yes, colour me cynical

As a woman, I haven't seen any information that would induce me to take them.

 

[Indy51]

Also enjoyed Dr Kendrick's latest blogpost about how the latest statin trial proves (to the statinators) that calcification of coronary arteries is no longer proof of atherschlerosis :

http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/04/07/dead-men-dont-bleed/

 

[sanguine]

Statins do lower cholesterol that's true, the question is whether that is a desirable thing. They also damage coenzyme Q10 and dolichol production in the process. I don't believe a total cholesterol lower than 5 is necessary, there is no evidence saying that high cholesterol 'causes' CVD problems - it is only 'associated' with the causes (chronic inflammation etc) but that's because the body is trying to help itself and cholesterol is a perfectly natural part of that.

Deal with the underlying causes of elevated cholesterol (or more correctly the elevated components of cholesterol most of concern, triglycerides and small dense LDL) - statins are a blunt instrument with collateral damage in my view. They also happen to be hugely profitable for BigPharma.

 

[Clivethedrive]

Statins do lower cholesterol that's true, the question is whether that is a desirable thing. They also damage coenzyme Q10 and dolichol production in the process. I don't believe a total cholesterol lower than 5 is necessary, there is no evidence saying that high cholesterol 'causes' CVD problems - it is only 'associated' with the causes (chronic inflammation etc) but that's because the body is trying to help itself and cholesterol is a perfectly natural part of that.

Deal with the underlying causes of elevated cholesterol (or more correctly the elevated components of cholesterol most of concern, triglycerides and small dense LDL) - statins are a blunt instrument with collateral damage in my view. They also happen to be hugely profitable for BigPharma.

Entirely agree, stopped taking stains last october and im much fitter for it.

 

[stuffedolive]

I was on statins for nearly a year, without being tested for adverse effects.
I do a lot of exercise as part of my diabetes management (but I would anyway) and am used to feeling a bit sore afterwards. So I failed to notice the pernicious slow advance of muscle degradation caused by my statins until my athletic performances started top drop off a cliff. At which point I found it difficult to exercise and had constantly aching muscles. When I went to the docs, tests confirmed that I was suffering muscle degradation - akin to running a marathon even though I had been resting for 2 weeks!
The doc still tried to put me back on statins but I refused. They then suggested Benecol drink and raw garlic (not as bad as it sounds if taken properly). Although not as effective as statins this combination did bring my cholesterol down from 6.8 to 4.9.
I have never recovered the lost strength from that year on statins, and also seem to have lost by ability to improve from my weakened state however much strength training I do. I also believe that my heart function has been impaired too (well it is a muscle so why would it be different) as my aerobic capacity (judged by my ability to undertake specific routines on a static bike) also diminished while on statins and has never recovered.
So at least I no longer ache but I just wish I'd never been on them in the first place.

 

[Bobbi_T]

Hi, I'm new to the forum but thought I'd add my but. My cholesterol levels were never high but at one point, years ago my reading was 5.3 so my diabetic nurse put me on statins. This did control the levels & the last reading was 2.3 so my nurse (a different one) decided to cut the dose by half. However, I had been suffering from severe leg pains which woke me up in the night, every night. I did some research & discovered this is quite common so stopped taking them. The pains went away within a week. I stopped for 2 weeks then started on the reduced dose & the pains returned so stopped again. No pains! I spoke to my nurse & we agreed I would stop taking them but did a further fasting test 3 months later. My levels had increased but still under 5. Obviously they are valuable for some people but def not for me. I'm now trying to find other ways of reducing / keeping my cholesterol down.

 

[MikeZ]

I started on Lipitor last fall and 3 months later I developed Type 2. Granted, I'm certain that I was well on my way to Type 2 regardless of the statin. However, I still believe that the statin was a catalyst for my diagnosis. It was a large dose back then and it did wonders for my cholesterol levels. But at what trade off? I really don't know. I am still on Lipitor, (1/2 dose), because I believe it is helpful at this point in my life. However, my goal is to get off of it within the next 12 months through diet and exercise.

As a side note: At my diabetic counseling session yesterday, I mentioned that I believed that the statin had been the veritable straw the broke the camel's back when it came to my initial Type 2 diagnosis. My counselor practically laughed in my face! She told me that I was to blame for my health... not any meds. Then she took my BP. Suffice it to say that it was higher than normal. Fortunately my GP is much more open-minded.

 

[Brunneria]

As a side note: At my diabetic counseling session yesterday, I mentioned that I believed that the statin had been the veritable straw the broke the camel's back when it came to my initial Type 2 diagnosis. My counselor practically laughed in my face! She told me that I was to blame for my health... not any meds. Then she took my BP. Suffice it to say that it was higher than normal. Fortunately my GP is much more open-minded.

I wouldn't sit through another appointment with a so-called professional who behaved like that.
And I would be writing a letter of complaint.

I am waaaaay past the point when let ill-informed bigots blame me for my genetics and health issues. And the more I learn about T2, the less of such stupidity I tolerate.

 

[sanguine]

Hi, I'm new to the forum but thought I'd add my but. My cholesterol levels were never high but at one point, years ago my reading was 5.3 so my diabetic nurse put me on statins. This did control the levels & the last reading was 2.3 so my nurse (a different one) decided to cut the dose by half. However, I had been suffering from severe leg pains which woke me up in the night, every night. I did some research & discovered this is quite common so stopped taking them. The pains went away within a week. I stopped for 2 weeks then started on the reduced dose & the pains returned so stopped again. No pains! I spoke to my nurse & we agreed I would stop taking them but did a further fasting test 3 months later. My levels had increased but still under 5. Obviously they are valuable for some people but def not for me. I'm now trying to find other ways of reducing / keeping my cholesterol down.

Hi @Bobbi_T , welcome.

If your cholesterol is under 5 I wouldn't worry in the slightest. But 2.3 is way too low, maybe dangerously so imo.

I've stopped worrying about the total figure, it's pretty meaningless as a marker, and focus on the total/HDL and trigs/HDL ratios.

Diet and exercise are good for getting the right lipid profile.

 

[sanguine]

This published yesterday - might get more consideration when doctors start suffering the side effects

http://coconutoil.com/deputy-chairman-of-british-medical-association-condemns-statins/

 

[PatsyB]

ai was on statins and after reading they are bad for Diabetics I decided to stop taking them I shall inform the Doctor when i go Tuesday, apart from being put on them before I had Diabetes I am blaming them for giving me the darn thing

 

[MikeZ]

I wouldn't sit through another appointment with a so-called professional who behaved like that.
And I would be writing a letter of complaint.

I am waaaaay past the point when let ill-informed bigots blame me for my genetics and health issues. And the more I learn about T2, the less of such stupidity I tolerate.

Indeed. I doubt that I will be visiting her office again. She has every right to disagree with me... I have no problem with that. But a little respect is in order as well. I did not present my belief in an antagonistic way at all. Yet she chose to practically mock me. Time to move on.

 

[mojo37]

I know 3 people that had taken Statins and all 3 had problems ..aches , pains and general un wellness and one guy a loss of muscle tone .I was prescribed then as soon as I was diagnosed with type 2 I have high blood pressure too I haven't taken them and won't be doing . Doctors are too handy at handing out meds especially when there are other things that you can do to help lower your cholesterol . Needless to say dr wasn't very happy and they still come up on my repeat prescription, wish they would give me BG testing strips instead might try and banter for them on my next visit .Not holding out much hope tho .

 

[Daphne917]

ai was on statins and after reading they are bad for Diabetics I decided to stop taking them I shall inform the Doctor when i go Tuesday, apart from being put on them before I had Diabetes I am blaming them for giving me the darn thing

I went from pre diabetic to diabetic soon after taking statins and they also gave me dizzy spells so I rang my GP and told him I was stopping them he agreed particularly as my cholesterol was lower than his!! In December last year my hba1c was ,42 and cholesterol 4.2 so no more statins for me!!

 

[Mike d]

Each to his / her own but NO WAY will I ever take them again. Hate them with a passion

 

[donnellysdogs]

Each to his / her own but NO WAY will I ever take them again. Hate them with a passion

Me too.

To be honest though... We will all die if something...so I worry that people taking statins are giving themselves tbe increased possibilty og getting a different lifetime disease like diabetes and even depression is listed now as a side effect.

Why are we just so worried about what we are going to die of though? Even good old age has to have something like cancer or heart failure to finish us off?

Why do people not see the horrible side effects that taking these statins can cause.

My side effects were horrendous. No GP listened. I wouldn't take even if I was paid to.