Hypothetical Cast Away Situation - T1D

[rubold]

I suddenly developed Type 1 at age 22 and had the usual unquenchable thirst with severe and rapid weight loss. However, I never actually felt ill or unable to do physical activity. I suppose I must have been still producing some insulin and I have often wondered if I had just started a zero carb diet whether I could have kept going without insulin injections (bovine). I have now had the condition for 42 years and have no serious complications apart from mild background retinopathy.. This suprprises me as I was a student doing a Ph.D for 4 years after diagnosis and never visited a doctor or had any blood tests. I did the occasional urine check, but as we know blood needs to be above 10 mmol/l before any glucose shows in urine.

 

[coralkay12]

My diabetic nurse has told me that if I don't have insulin for 3 days I can die x

 

[donnellysdogs]

My diabetic nurse has told me that if I don't have insulin for 3 days I can die x

I think mine would be 2 days.. If my pump stops working I can go up to high 20's within hours.....3 days would be a max for me too!!!

 

[pinewood]

@rubold - same for me, I never felt ill at all - even when the GP did a random blood glucose test and my reading was 29! I'm 25 and was diagnosed in December.

 

[ann34+]

I suddenly developed Type 1 at age 22 and had the usual unquenchable thirst with severe and rapid weight loss. However, I never actually felt ill or unable to do physical activity. I suppose I must have been still producing some insulin and I have often wondered if I had just started a zero carb diet whether I could have kept going without insulin injections (bovine). I have now had the condition for 42 years and have no serious complications apart from mild background retinopathy.. This suprprises me as I was a student doing a Ph.D for 4 years after diagnosis and never visited a doctor or had any blood tests. I did the occasional urine check, but as we know blood needs to be above 10 mmol/l before any glucose shows in urine.

I had years of going to the GP with various minor symptoms like dry mouth, tingling in hands, then things would improve, then the symptoms were back, etc, but it was not until 7 years later that i had an ear infection and ended up in a life threatening coma. Even after that, and 3 days in intensive care i still had background insulin for some months (but not after that) . I know this as i was studied, as doctors were surprised i had no complications when they had seen my GP records.
i now hear there is a new test which finds that up to a third of type ones have marginal insulin which may be protective. Background insulin will not protect from death, as far as i understand, but while it is there, other hormones which come with insulin - amylin, C peptide etc, are also present which also help with control and numerous other things. Studies on the Joslin medalists have found a number of them also have some marginal insulin.
Not all Type ones are the same.

 

[ann34+]

I suddenly developed Type 1 at age 22 and had the usual unquenchable thirst with severe and rapid weight loss. However, I never actually felt ill or unable to do physical activity. I suppose I must have been still producing some insulin and I have often wondered if I had just started a zero carb diet whether I could have kept going without insulin injections (bovine). I have now had the condition for 42 years and have no serious complications apart from mild background retinopathy.. This suprprises me as I was a student doing a Ph.D for 4 years after diagnosis and never visited a doctor or had any blood tests. I did the occasional urine check, but as we know blood needs to be above 10 mmol/l before any glucose shows in urine.

i should have explained in my post just now that when all my undiagnosed symptoms of diabetes started i was also 22, yet even without insulin i survived for 7 years. At first i was not much unwell, but later had increasing symptoms and after about 4 or 5 years i had little energy, and I stopped breakfasts, most bread, and went nearly vegan as these strategies seemed to improve the symptoms my GP ignored, (i had not even heard of diabetes) Like you i sometimes wonder what would have happened if i had known more about about low cho diets etc. As it was my doctors at that time thought my absence of complications after diagnosis in the coma was down to my then high veg, wholegrain - brown rice - diet.

 

[jules65]

How long do you think those of us who have had their pancreas surgically removed would last (no insulin, glucagon, amylin, C-peptide etc...) ? The same? less? somehow impossibly longer???
I have often thought about the 'castaway scenario' and decided that if anyone else was with me they would eat me first!

 

[Diamattic]

ann34+ you sure put up a solid battle there! If you are truly Type 1, then you wouldn't have been able to outlast it. Once your body starts the beta massacre your insulin production will lower, and from what i have heard beta cells can die off if our sugars get above 7.8, so even if you had some left, unless you stayed ultra low carb for your entire life, it would happen eventually.

If however, you were type 2 that gradually progressed into type 1 then you may have been able to out run it, but it doesn't sound like you were.


Jules - Your pancreas does more then just insulin production so i don't think you can have it fully removed and still function normally. but yeah, i wouldn't go so far as to say "eat me first' but it really opens us up to being the hero. If ever in crazy zombie or desert island, or post apocolyptic situations everyone fears death, and we would know its certain so we can do all the very risky, heroic actions others would fear to do

Thats how i like to think, I would be that guy that does that thing everyone said was suicide if we tried... we'll i would be dead in 3 days anyway, might as well try! we could all be heroes!

 

[jules65]

Diamattic - I can assure you with 100% certainty that I have absolutely had the whole of my pancreas removed, I had two partials first and then a total removal, in answer to your statement about functioning normally - no I don't I have Brittle Diabetes, and the other function the pancreas does to digest foods (essentially fats) is impossible without taking tablets, which never work properly as they are guess work (like diabetes!)

I don't fear death, so would offer to be heroic & be eaten!!!
BUT, in the real world, I am alive, which is better than the alternative

 

[ann34+]

ann34+ you sure put up a solid battle there! If you are truly Type 1, then you wouldn't have been able to outlast it. Once your body starts the beta massacre your insulin production will lower, and from what i have heard beta cells can die off if our sugars get above 7.8, so even if you had some left, unless you stayed ultra low carb for your entire life, it would happen eventually.

If however, you were type 2 that gradually progressed into type 1 then you may have been able to out run it, but it doesn't sound like you were.


Jules - Your pancreas does more then just insulin production so i don't think you can have it fully removed and still function normally. but yeah, i wouldn't go so far as to say "eat me first' but it really opens us up to being the hero. If ever in crazy zombie or desert island, or post apocolyptic situations everyone fears death, and we would know its certain so we can do all the very risky, heroic actions others would fear to do

Thats how i like to think, I would be that guy that does that thing everyone said was suicide if we tried... we'll i would be dead in 3 days anyway, might as well try! we could all be heroes!

Hi, Diamattic, I am type one, and had no extra weight though on a strict diet to stay at that weight - then i just stopped having to diet - i never gained, never lost weight at first. Then i slowly lost a small amount - not much but it was remarked i was had lost a bit too much, i stayed at this but became more susceptible to infections and the common diabetes symptoms. i tend to wonder, as someone said in another thread, whether there is a big difference between children with Type one, and some slow onset adults - to the extent there may be two separate diseases. Also, i think i recall that in twin studies both may have autoantibodies related to Type one, and both may show signs of the attack, but in one the attack is fast, and in the other is less sustained, and they do not develop Type one (but may do later). Re any time desert island, not a good idea to even think of it!! Insulin is amazing stuff and i would not wish having none on anyone - survival on a desert island would be long , think dehydration would hasten death for a type one......re the pre insulin starvation therapy and the details of the situation then, especially for young children, lot on the net, and some academic papers - very harrowing - see the story of Elizabeth Hughes Gossett, who lived by starvation for some years, and was the first to have insulin,
www.weds-wales.co.uk/getfile.php?type=site...id...Elizabeth...doc.






http://www.irunoninsulin.com/?p=1661

 

[ann34+]

Hi, Diamattic, I am type one, and had no extra weight though on a strict diet to stay at that weight - then i just stopped having to diet - i never gained, never lost weight at first. Then i slowly lost a small amount - not much but it was remarked i was had lost a bit too much, i stayed at this but became more susceptible to infections and the common diabetes symptoms. i tend to wonder, as someone said in another thread, whether there is a big difference between children with Type one, and some slow onset adults - to the extent there may be two separate diseases. Also, i think i recall that in twin studies both may have autoantibodies related to Type one, and both may show signs of the attack, but in one the attack is fast, and in the other is less sustained, and they do not develop Type one (but may do later). Re any time desert island, not a good idea to even think of it!! Insulin is amazing stuff and i would not wish having none on anyone - survival on a desert island would be long , think dehydration would hasten death for a type one......re the pre insulin starvation therapy and the details of the situation then, especially for young children, lot on the net, and some academic papers - very harrowing - see the story of Elizabeth Hughes Gossett, who lived by starvation for some years, and was the first to have insulin,
www.weds-wales.co.uk/getfile.php?type=site...id...Elizabeth...doc.






http://www.irunoninsulin.com/?p=1661

first ref does not open, above does. sorry, i missed 'not ' out above . Also, infections from minor injuries would need more insulin to heal, etc - many of the diabetics before insulin died not from comas, but from infection they could not overcome - no antibiotics then, and none on desert island ?