Statins and diabetes

jack412

Expert
Messages
5,618
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
click ‘view’ right hand side to read report

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...olled_trials_to_aid_individual_patient_choice

Results: Among 14 primary prevention trials (46,262 participants),

statin therapy increased diabetes by absolute risk of 0.5% (95% CI 0.1–1%, p¼0.012),

meanwhile reducing death by a similar extent: 0.5% (0.9 to 0.2%, p¼0.003).

In the 15 secondary prevention RCTs (37,618 participants), statins decreased death by 1.4% (2.1 to 0.7%, p<0.001).

There were no other statin-attributable symptoms,

although asymptomatic liver transaminase elevation was 0.4% more frequent with statins across all trials. Serious adverse events and withdrawals were similar in both arms.


Conclusions:

Only a small minority of symptoms reported on statins are genuinely due to the statins:
almost all would occur just as frequently on placebo.



Only development of new-onset diabetes mellitus was significantly higher on statins than placebo; nevertheless only 1 in 5 of new cases were actually caused by statins. Higher statin doses produce a detectable effect, but even still the proportion attributable to statins is variable: for asymptomatic liver enzyme elevation, the majority are attributable to the higher dose; in contrast for muscle aches, the majority are not.


this study looked at the history of 60,000 Diabetics after av. 2.7

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(14)70173-1/abstract

retinopathy HR=0.6 [decrease of risk]

neuropathy HR=0.66

gangrene of the foot HR=0.88

diabetic nephropathy HR=0.97

[neutral..........HR=1.0 ]

diabetes HR=1·17 [increase of risk]



the way I look at it ..if nothing else take statin for neuropathy, retinopathy and gangrene of the foot
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

Janiept

Expert
Messages
5,311
http://cpr.sagepub.com/content/21/4/464.full.pdf

Results: Among 14 primary prevention trials (46,262 participants),

statin therapy increased diabetes by absolute risk of 0.5% (95% CI 0.1–1%, p¼0.012),

meanwhile reducing death by a similar extent: 0.5% (0.9 to 0.2%, p¼0.003).

In the 15 secondary prevention RCTs (37,618 participants), statins decreased death by 1.4% (2.1 to 0.7%, p<0.001).

There were no other statin-attributable symptoms,

although asymptomatic liver transaminase elevation was 0.4% more frequent with statins across all trials. Serious adverse events and withdrawals were similar in both arms.


Conclusions:

Only a small minority of symptoms reported on statins are genuinely due to the statins:


almost all would occur just as frequently on placebo.


Only development of new-onset diabetes mellitus was significantly higher on statins than placebo; nevertheless only 1 in 5 of new cases were actually caused by statins. Higher statin doses produce a detectable effect, but even still the proportion attributable to statins is variable: for asymptomatic liver enzyme elevation, the majority are attributable to the higher dose; in contrast for muscle aches, the majority are not.


this study looked at the history of 60,000 Diabetics after av. 2.7

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(14)70173-1/abstract

retinopathy HR=0.6 [decrease of risk]

neuropathy HR=0.66

gangrene of the foot HR=0.88

diabetic nephropathy HR=0.97

[neutral..........HR=1.0 ]

diabetes HR=1·17 [increase of risk]



the way I look at it ..if nothing else take statin for neuropathy, retinopathy and gangrene of the foot
Thanks for that @jack412. As always, it shows that you can prove anything using statistics, it just depends which stats you happen to use at any given time. It's frustrating not knowing for sure whether something will help us or not isn't it.
I certainly can attest to the fact that a cocktail of meds makes me feel worse than I did before I started taking them. But 'they're keeping me alive', my GP tells me so I carry on with them, but am reticent at the thought of adding to the mix.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people

))Denise((

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,580
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
@Janiept http://www.saga.co.uk/health/medicines/statins-case-against.aspx

http://www.thecholesteroltruth.com/could-low-cholesterol-cause-dementia/

I am at an advantage that I know I don't have furred up arteries as I took part in some medical research where they did a MRI scan of my heart and it showed it was in good shape, despite the fact that my father and his brothers died young from heart attacks.

I don't see the point of taking something for life that will only extend it by a few months, if at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people

Janiept

Expert
Messages
5,311
@Janiept http://www.saga.co.uk/health/medicines/statins-case-against.aspx

http://www.thecholesteroltruth.com/could-low-cholesterol-cause-dementia/

I am at an advantage that I know I don't have furred up arteries as I took part in some medical research where they did a MRI scan of my heart and it showed it was in good shape, despite the fact that my father and his brothers died young from heart attacks.

I don't see the point of taking something for life that will only extend it by a few months, if at all.
I couldn't agree more @))Denise(( and thank you for your contribution. How fortunate you are to have taken part in medical research, had an MRI and been given the all clear, that must be such a relief having a family history of cardiac problems.
The Saga link that you posted pretty much sums up most of what I have learned over a period of time about the use of statins, although the information about women is, again, surprising. It's definitely something I will mention to my GP next time she gets on her high horse about taking statins, although I suspect her reply will be the usual verbal waffle without much background.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

jack412

Expert
Messages
5,618
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Thanks for that @jack412. As always, it shows that you can prove anything using statistics, it just depends which stats you happen to use at any given time. It's frustrating not knowing for sure whether something will help us or not isn't it.
I certainly can attest to the fact that a cocktail of meds makes me feel worse than I did before I started taking them. But 'they're keeping me alive', my GP tells me so I carry on with them, but am reticent at the thought of adding to the mix.
there are a lot of people on statins without any side effects
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

hankjam

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,270
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Interesting that liver function returned to normal after stopping them @hankjam . Can I ask how long ago that was and how you are feeling in yourself?
Hi Janiept, the last time was last year, when i was diagnosed T2, my liver function stats were high, so off I came. The time before was about 5 years ago, similar thing, BG from blood tests were high but not diagnosed then. Since diagnosis I've lost a lot of weight, still losing... through diet and exercise. Cholesterol numbers were high at 6 months..... but don't know the breakdown of them.... will ask next time! I feel okay. I used to suffer from leg and toe cramps and I still do but not so badly... not sure if that is related to the statins. I was offered a third type, which was described to me as stronger than my previous two and that we would have to watch how I responded to them.... I've not taken them yet..... I have my second DB review coming up at the end of the month.... so wondering what it will show....
 

jack412

Expert
Messages
5,618
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi Janiept, the last time was last year, when i was diagnosed T2, my liver function stats were high, so off I came. The time before was about 5 years ago, similar thing, BG from blood tests were high but not diagnosed then. Since diagnosis I've lost a lot of weight, still losing... through diet and exercise. Cholesterol numbers were high at 6 months..... but don't know the breakdown of them.... will ask next time! I feel okay. I used to suffer from leg and toe cramps and I still do but not so badly... not sure if that is related to the statins. I was offered a third type, which was described to me as stronger than my previous two and that we would have to watch how I responded to them.... I've not taken them yet..... I have my second DB review coming up at the end of the month.... so wondering what it will show....
this is a good video on the breakdown of your blood test
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

Janiept

Expert
Messages
5,311
this is a good video on the breakdown of your blood test
Many thanks for posting that link Jack which was so informative and I learned a lot from it. I look forward to getting my printout next Tuesday from GP and this time I will be able to actually understand what all those figures mean.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people

BBGRAMMY

Member
Messages
10
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hello I'm Bev I tried to post a reply to the statin thread yesterday and was watching for a reply. I don't think it was posted. I'm new to posting so must have done something wrong. I have read and learnt from everyone's posts over the last year and have been low carbing due to this site. My current problem is my cholesterol levels. Last Oct I had a chol result of 7.9 and a HbA1c of 44. This week my results were chol 7.6 and HbA1c 47. The difference is last year my diet was with high fat and since then lowered my fat intake to hopefully make it reduce no such luck! High fat lower fat it has made no difference to my cholesterol levels. However I am hoping my blood glucose is ok?? Could you please reassure me regarding this. I now have to visit my GP as I think he wants to put me on more medication which I'm reluctant to do. I have tried all the statins and I have difficulty tolerating them as they increase my liver function count and give me unbearable cramps. I have managed to lose 2 and a half stone over the last 12 months with reading what you all have to say. Any help would be a real bonus for me as I really couldn't try any harder to get this right.
 

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,642
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
It's such a hard decision to make isn't it @caliban . I too have cardiac problems but have refused statins in the past despite having high cholesterol, as I am unable to understand why something that the body produces naturally can be so harmful (if you believe the medical profession). Also I am on an enormous cocktail of different meds and just couldn't face adding to the bubbling cauldron :(
It's probably illogical, but when you hear soooooo many stories about the side effects it doesn't make sense to ignore others' experiences, Imo.
Also my brother-in-law takes them because he has slightly raised cholesterol and is crippled with muscular pain, but 'oh no the doctor knows best, so I must keep taking them'. Sigh!
Hi. When you're dealing with the NHS and it encourages diabetics who are all glucose intorant to have lots of starchy carbs would you trust much of what they say?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

noblehead

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
23,618
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
Disrespectful people
Hello I'm Bev I tried to post a reply to the statin thread yesterday and was watching for a reply. I don't think it was posted. I'm new to posting so must have done something wrong. I have read and learnt from everyone's posts over the last year and have been low carbing due to this site. My current problem is my cholesterol levels. Last Oct I had a chol result of 7.9 and a HbA1c of 44. This week my results were chol 7.6 and HbA1c 47. The difference is last year my diet was with high fat and since then lowered my fat intake to hopefully make it reduce no such luck! High fat lower fat it has made no difference to my cholesterol levels. However I am hoping my blood glucose is ok?? Could you please reassure me regarding this. I now have to visit my GP as I think he wants to put me on more medication which I'm reluctant to do. I have tried all the statins and I have difficulty tolerating them as they increase my liver function count and give me unbearable cramps. I have managed to lose 2 and a half stone over the last 12 months with reading what you all have to say. Any help would be a real bonus for me as I really couldn't try any harder to get this right.


Unfortunately some people have high cholesterol due to their family history, so have inherited it and they call it Familial Hypercholesterolaemia, not saying this is the case with you but sometimes these things are out of our reach and the only option is meds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,642
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
http://cpr.sagepub.com/content/21/4/464.full.pdf

Results: Among 14 primary prevention trials (46,262 participants),

statin therapy increased diabetes by absolute risk of 0.5% (95% CI 0.1–1%, p¼0.012),

meanwhile reducing death by a similar extent: 0.5% (0.9 to 0.2%, p¼0.003).

In the 15 secondary prevention RCTs (37,618 participants), statins decreased death by 1.4% (2.1 to 0.7%, p<0.001).

There were no other statin-attributable symptoms,

although asymptomatic liver transaminase elevation was 0.4% more frequent with statins across all trials. Serious adverse events and withdrawals were similar in both arms.


Conclusions:

Only a small minority of symptoms reported on statins are genuinely due to the statins:
almost all would occur just as frequently on placebo.



Only development of new-onset diabetes mellitus was significantly higher on statins than placebo; nevertheless only 1 in 5 of new cases were actually caused by statins. Higher statin doses produce a detectable effect, but even still the proportion attributable to statins is variable: for asymptomatic liver enzyme elevation, the majority are attributable to the higher dose; in contrast for muscle aches, the majority are not.


this study looked at the history of 60,000 Diabetics after av. 2.7

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(14)70173-1/abstract

retinopathy HR=0.6 [decrease of risk]

neuropathy HR=0.66

gangrene of the foot HR=0.88

diabetic nephropathy HR=0.97

[neutral..........HR=1.0 ]

diabetes HR=1·17 [increase of risk]



the way I look at it ..if nothing else take statin for neuropathy, retinopathy and gangrene of the foot
You might like to read the info in this link taken from another diabetes forum http://healthinsightuk.org/2015/02/19/keep-statin-supremo-away-from-the-missing-side-effect-data/. It indicates that little or no research has been done on the wider harmful effects of statins and any data is kept rigidly under lock and key. My wife had a serious liver reaction to statins but did her GP raise a Yellow Card; no.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

BBGRAMMY

Member
Messages
10
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Unfortunately some people have high cholesterol due to their family history, so have inherited it and they call it Familial Hypercholesterolaemia, not saying this is the case with you but sometimes these things are out of our reach and the only option is meds.
I love your proverb! Yes diabetes and high cholesterol runs in the family. I was so desperate this morning I tried 2oz of oats made with water. Not had carbs like this for a year. My glucose 2hrs after was.....5.5 it's never been this low. I am confused that as there doesn't seem to be a one fit for all. Thank you for replying and putting into perspective. My practice nurse says there is an alternative to statins but I'm not sure what this will be until I see him next week.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

jack412

Expert
Messages
5,618
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
You might like to read the info in this link taken from another diabetes forum http://healthinsightuk.org/2015/02/19/keep-statin-supremo-away-from-the-missing-side-effect-data/. It indicates that little or no research has been done on the wider harmful effects of statins and any data is kept rigidly under lock and key. My wife had a serious liver reaction to statins but did her GP raise a Yellow Card; no.
I'm sorry to hear that, the liver can be a real problem and the dr should have had regular blood tests to monitor the broad things us diabetics need monitoring
from the first link,
"although asymptomatic liver transaminase elevation was 0.4% more frequent with statins across all trials. Serious adverse events and withdrawals were similar in both arms."

EDIT, i went to the link to get more data, but it's behind a paywall now
new link
click ‘view’ right hand side

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...olled_trials_to_aid_individual_patient_choice
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

noblehead

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
23,618
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
Disrespectful people
I love your proverb! Yes diabetes and high cholesterol runs in the family. I was so desperate this morning I tried 2oz of oats made with water. Not had carbs like this for a year. My glucose 2hrs after was.....5.5 it's never been this low. I am confused that as there doesn't seem to be a one fit for all. Thank you for replying and putting into perspective. My practice nurse says there is an alternative to statins but I'm not sure what this will be until I see him next week.

There are alternatives but I just forget what they are, but good luck anyway and hope you manage to get your cholesterol levels down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

BBGRAMMY

Member
Messages
10
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
There are alternatives but I just forget what they are, but good luck anyway and hope you manage to get your cholesterol levels down.
Thanks and the everything in moderation seems the way forward for me so will keep on testing and checking out the forum threads
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

noblehead

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
23,618
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
Disrespectful people
Thanks and the everything in moderation seems the way forward for me so will keep on testing and checking out the forum threads

It probably wouldn't make a lot of difference if you have FH, everything in moderation is my own take but I'm a type 1 so don't have to be so careful when it comes to food.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,642
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
I'm sorry to hear that, the liver can be a real problem and the dr should have had regular blood tests to monitor the broad things us diabetics need monitoring
from the first link,
"although asymptomatic liver transaminase elevation was 0.4% more frequent with statins across all trials. Serious adverse events and withdrawals were similar in both arms."

EDIT, i went to the link to get more data, but it's behind a paywall now
new link
click ‘view’ right hand side

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...olled_trials_to_aid_individual_patient_choice
Hi. That's strange as the link still works for me and is open; the joys of IT. My wife's liver reacted badly with serious pains within 2 days of starting the statins which shows how nasty they can be for some people and can't be called safe drug even though many, like me, have no apparent problems. We are also not told to take CoQ10 supplements which may be needed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people

donnellysdogs

Master
Messages
13,233
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
People that can't listen to other people's opinions.
People that can't say sorry.
I wonder if increase of diabetes on statins id due to people carrying on as normal eating **** that they were probably doing pre statins.
To me if you need statins you cut the ****.. But how many people actually do this?
Figures will never be full science facts because eating diaries and patterns aren't fully analysed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people