Type 1: Prescription fine
- Thread starter molivers73
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Gaz-M
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No I don't want to open a can of worms so to speak as (for now) I have not been fined
Hi Everyone,
Just joined. Here's my story. I have been a type 1 diabetic since 1969
On Feb 1st 2015 when cleaning out my wallet I found that my exemption cert had run out in May 2014. No chemist had ever asked to see it so it had stayed in the back of my wallet until I got a new wallet because the old one was falling apart..
Rang them up the next day and had a lovely chat with a very nice man who said don't worry about it, everyone forgets. Couldn't renew over the phone as I had moved from the addreess the last one was sent to 3 months after I received it. I thought everyone in the NHS would have the new address as I had told my GP Surgery and know that that is the address related to my NHS Number as both the Diabetic Department at the local hospital, the diabetc eye people at another hospital and another hospital for my sleep apnea all send their correspondence to my address from the last 4 and half years. I was told that, although the NHS Number is on the form they do not has the ability to check the address the NHS Number is registered to.........
Saw the practice nurse two days later and she said form would be with the doctor when I saw her the next week.
On 09/02/015 less than a week after speaking to them I received a penatly charge notice for £48.30. I spoke to them on the phone and all I got was "You have to pay," "You have to pay". They were rude and obnoxius and I have never in my life been treated in such a bad way.
On 12/02/2015 I saw my doctor at our appointed meeting and she filled in two forms, one from that date onwards, the second in big bold letters stating to cover the period dates from May 2014 when my cert ran out until 12/02/2015.
On February 23rd I received two certicficates with cards both dated from the 16/01/2015 to 15/01/2020 !!
I rang them up the next day to ask if they had read the forms and was told they are just scanned in and issued. I was informed that the certificates can only be back dated for one month. I asked that this was put to me in writing and am still awaiting that letter two weeks later.
I am not going to pay the prescription charge or the fine. It is not about the money it is the working practice of the NHS.
They need to get their house in order. If any private company was run this way they would be out of business in no time.
Everyone please campaign to get this sorted and the NHS on a proper footing. Write to your MPs, write to the Sceretary for Health, tell all the people who will be knocking on your door in the next four weeks that the NHS must be sort things out properly so this sort of thing does not occur.
I, like probably many of you, filled in forms 2 or 3 years ago saying I would like everyone in the NHS to have all my details so if I fall ill anywhere in the country the medical staff would have all my details. This should also be linked into the the NHS Business Services Authority so that type 1 diabetics and other conditions would automatically get the medical certs renewed and sent to the correct address.
Just joined. Here's my story. I have been a type 1 diabetic since 1969
On Feb 1st 2015 when cleaning out my wallet I found that my exemption cert had run out in May 2014. No chemist had ever asked to see it so it had stayed in the back of my wallet until I got a new wallet because the old one was falling apart..
Rang them up the next day and had a lovely chat with a very nice man who said don't worry about it, everyone forgets. Couldn't renew over the phone as I had moved from the addreess the last one was sent to 3 months after I received it. I thought everyone in the NHS would have the new address as I had told my GP Surgery and know that that is the address related to my NHS Number as both the Diabetic Department at the local hospital, the diabetc eye people at another hospital and another hospital for my sleep apnea all send their correspondence to my address from the last 4 and half years. I was told that, although the NHS Number is on the form they do not has the ability to check the address the NHS Number is registered to.........
Saw the practice nurse two days later and she said form would be with the doctor when I saw her the next week.
On 09/02/015 less than a week after speaking to them I received a penatly charge notice for £48.30. I spoke to them on the phone and all I got was "You have to pay," "You have to pay". They were rude and obnoxius and I have never in my life been treated in such a bad way.
On 12/02/2015 I saw my doctor at our appointed meeting and she filled in two forms, one from that date onwards, the second in big bold letters stating to cover the period dates from May 2014 when my cert ran out until 12/02/2015.
On February 23rd I received two certicficates with cards both dated from the 16/01/2015 to 15/01/2020 !!
I rang them up the next day to ask if they had read the forms and was told they are just scanned in and issued. I was informed that the certificates can only be back dated for one month. I asked that this was put to me in writing and am still awaiting that letter two weeks later.
I am not going to pay the prescription charge or the fine. It is not about the money it is the working practice of the NHS.
They need to get their house in order. If any private company was run this way they would be out of business in no time.
Everyone please campaign to get this sorted and the NHS on a proper footing. Write to your MPs, write to the Sceretary for Health, tell all the people who will be knocking on your door in the next four weeks that the NHS must be sort things out properly so this sort of thing does not occur.
I, like probably many of you, filled in forms 2 or 3 years ago saying I would like everyone in the NHS to have all my details so if I fall ill anywhere in the country the medical staff would have all my details. This should also be linked into the the NHS Business Services Authority so that type 1 diabetics and other conditions would automatically get the medical certs renewed and sent to the correct address.
After some correspondence with them, I have had my fine (and a late surcharge) eased, though I still have to pay the prescription charge of about £16.00.
I did some research on how they handled my request for an appeal and their insistence that they had no authority to exercise discretion in removing the penalty charge. I believe that their conduct is not compliant with Article Six of the Human Rights Act, in not allowing an independent appeal. All public authorities are required to abide by this, a great publication here... http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/human-rights/human-rights-handbook-for-public-authorities.pdf
They also have a Freedom of Information Act reply at https://www.ppa.org.uk/NHSBSA_foiRequest/foiRequestDetail.do?bo_id=4939 that states that they had cases where an Easement applied, which contradicts them saying that they do not have any discretion!
My email to them:
Ref Prescription Charge Notice Ref: <blah>
I write further regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice.
I have found it difficult to deal with this matter, as the charge hit me at a time of significant financial stress that is taking some time to get on top of. The PCN has added to this stress, and I find it difficult to understand how the Health Service Organisation that is there to help me, at the same time adds to my stress and pressure with such a penalty without seemingly allowing me a right of appeal, allowing reasonable mitigation to be presented and independently assessed.
Suffice to say, I now have renewed my Medical Exemption Certificate, no <blah>. I consider it a wrong the way the enforcement is capturing individuals on the technicality that their certificate has expired, or genuine misunderstanding of the rules, when those individuals are in genuine need of help and often less well placed to make or handle the penalty charge. There is a growing momentum of such cases on Internet forums to evidence this. I understand the need to mitigate genuinely fraudulent activity, however I fail to see how penalising those in genuine need and entitlement really achieves anything.
In respect of my own notice, I was unable to make any interim payment within the initial period. I have found it difficult to try and reconcile the manner in which this matter is being handled against the need to make payment, and found myself very anxious in dealing with it. I have therefore received a further surcharge notice with a deadline to pay today.
I wish to ask for the surcharge to be removed. I see little to be achieved by the surcharge process and consider that I have sufficient grounds to request it be removed and for an easement to be applied. You will see that I have now made an initial payment of £1.
In respect of my initial request for appeal, and the assertion that "the NHSBSA does not have any authority to exercise discretion in removing penalty charges", this seems to conflict with a Freedom of Information response on the NHSBSA site, no 4939, http://www.ppa.org.uk/foidocs/responses/FOI_Request_(4939).txt
This response notes that of 1,933 PCNs, 112 cases had an easement applied removing either the Surcharge, Penalty Charge, or both. Through what mechanism were these easements applied, and how can the NHSBSA state that they are unable to exercise discretion, when this FOI response seems to suggest the opposite?
In addition to this, I do not believe that the NHSBSA is acting in compliance with Section six of the Human Rights Act in seemingly not allowing me the right of independent appeal. I have discussed this matter with legal advice and am attempting to obtain further legal advice on this matter. As an administrative authority of a Public Body, the NHSBSA is required to be compliant with the Human Rights Act. While NHSBSA are bound by the legislation (for PCNs), it also has to operate within all other legislation in force. In not allowing myself, and others, and appeal I do not believe this process is compliant with Section six, and brings into question the entire integrity of the operation by the NHSBSA in enforcing the PCN legislation.
There is a useful handbook for public authorities (and agencies of) in respect of the Human Rights Act athttp://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/human-rights/human-rights-handbook-for-public-authorities.pdf .
I apologise for the delay in following up on this, I have found it very difficult to deal with matter and the way in which it is being handled. Would you please consider the above and reply further.
=================================================
They haven't made any comment on my points, have just eased my fine.
I believe their conduct is on dodgy grounds in respect of appeals and the Human Rights Act.
I did some research on how they handled my request for an appeal and their insistence that they had no authority to exercise discretion in removing the penalty charge. I believe that their conduct is not compliant with Article Six of the Human Rights Act, in not allowing an independent appeal. All public authorities are required to abide by this, a great publication here... http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/human-rights/human-rights-handbook-for-public-authorities.pdf
They also have a Freedom of Information Act reply at https://www.ppa.org.uk/NHSBSA_foiRequest/foiRequestDetail.do?bo_id=4939 that states that they had cases where an Easement applied, which contradicts them saying that they do not have any discretion!
My email to them:
Ref Prescription Charge Notice Ref: <blah>
I write further regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice.
I have found it difficult to deal with this matter, as the charge hit me at a time of significant financial stress that is taking some time to get on top of. The PCN has added to this stress, and I find it difficult to understand how the Health Service Organisation that is there to help me, at the same time adds to my stress and pressure with such a penalty without seemingly allowing me a right of appeal, allowing reasonable mitigation to be presented and independently assessed.
Suffice to say, I now have renewed my Medical Exemption Certificate, no <blah>. I consider it a wrong the way the enforcement is capturing individuals on the technicality that their certificate has expired, or genuine misunderstanding of the rules, when those individuals are in genuine need of help and often less well placed to make or handle the penalty charge. There is a growing momentum of such cases on Internet forums to evidence this. I understand the need to mitigate genuinely fraudulent activity, however I fail to see how penalising those in genuine need and entitlement really achieves anything.
In respect of my own notice, I was unable to make any interim payment within the initial period. I have found it difficult to try and reconcile the manner in which this matter is being handled against the need to make payment, and found myself very anxious in dealing with it. I have therefore received a further surcharge notice with a deadline to pay today.
I wish to ask for the surcharge to be removed. I see little to be achieved by the surcharge process and consider that I have sufficient grounds to request it be removed and for an easement to be applied. You will see that I have now made an initial payment of £1.
In respect of my initial request for appeal, and the assertion that "the NHSBSA does not have any authority to exercise discretion in removing penalty charges", this seems to conflict with a Freedom of Information response on the NHSBSA site, no 4939, http://www.ppa.org.uk/foidocs/responses/FOI_Request_(4939).txt
This response notes that of 1,933 PCNs, 112 cases had an easement applied removing either the Surcharge, Penalty Charge, or both. Through what mechanism were these easements applied, and how can the NHSBSA state that they are unable to exercise discretion, when this FOI response seems to suggest the opposite?
In addition to this, I do not believe that the NHSBSA is acting in compliance with Section six of the Human Rights Act in seemingly not allowing me the right of independent appeal. I have discussed this matter with legal advice and am attempting to obtain further legal advice on this matter. As an administrative authority of a Public Body, the NHSBSA is required to be compliant with the Human Rights Act. While NHSBSA are bound by the legislation (for PCNs), it also has to operate within all other legislation in force. In not allowing myself, and others, and appeal I do not believe this process is compliant with Section six, and brings into question the entire integrity of the operation by the NHSBSA in enforcing the PCN legislation.
There is a useful handbook for public authorities (and agencies of) in respect of the Human Rights Act athttp://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/human-rights/human-rights-handbook-for-public-authorities.pdf .
I apologise for the delay in following up on this, I have found it very difficult to deal with matter and the way in which it is being handled. Would you please consider the above and reply further.
=================================================
They haven't made any comment on my points, have just eased my fine.
I believe their conduct is on dodgy grounds in respect of appeals and the Human Rights Act.
Hi Andy,
Could you please send a copy of your email to Luke Thorne, the Public Affairs Officer for Diabetics UK at [email protected]
He is building up a huge file of cases to present to Parliament. You can quote my name (Kevin Nelson) is you want to.
Each and every case seems to be different with different results for different people.
I am now awaiting a phone call back from a supervisor at NHSBSA to explain why I have not yet received a letter stating in writing that the certificate cannot be backdated even though my doctor and I sent a form in for the lapsed period
Will post later what occurs.
All the best,
Kevin;
Could you please send a copy of your email to Luke Thorne, the Public Affairs Officer for Diabetics UK at [email protected]
He is building up a huge file of cases to present to Parliament. You can quote my name (Kevin Nelson) is you want to.
Each and every case seems to be different with different results for different people.
I am now awaiting a phone call back from a supervisor at NHSBSA to explain why I have not yet received a letter stating in writing that the certificate cannot be backdated even though my doctor and I sent a form in for the lapsed period
Will post later what occurs.
All the best,
Kevin;
I will do Kev. My advice is to tell them you wish to appeal (if you have not already done so). When they refuse tell them they are not compliant in their obligations under Article six of the Human Rights Act.
UB
We should all stick together on this issue as it affects us all.
Regards, Kevin
Hi Brian, please send details to Luke at Diabetes UK at the Addy in previous post. He will treat your information in full confidence and you will not get any abuse.
We should all stick together on this issue as it affects us all.
Regards, Kevin
caretaker
Well-Known Member
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Hi
its nice to see some solidarity once again . we cant let them win. even if it means someone throwing them self under the kings horse ( women s suffragette movement . and they got the vote)
it might be a good idea to tell MP's.
There is an election soon and over 42.000 people on diabetes co.uk have viewed this thread and most feel that this is disgustingly wrong to penalize people who pre 2002 who was never given a reminder of the changes in THERE NEW RULES ..
we are all exempt and must sick together.
if we was over 65 they would be fighting for our votes
its nice to see some solidarity once again . we cant let them win. even if it means someone throwing them self under the kings horse ( women s suffragette movement . and they got the vote)
it might be a good idea to tell MP's.
There is an election soon and over 42.000 people on diabetes co.uk have viewed this thread and most feel that this is disgustingly wrong to penalize people who pre 2002 who was never given a reminder of the changes in THERE NEW RULES ..
we are all exempt and must sick together.
if we was over 65 they would be fighting for our votes
T1since98
Newbie
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I have just received a fine for £48.. They won't tell me what it's for.. I have received free diabetic prescriptions since I was 9 and when I left full time education I was never told and never sent a thing about the certificate.. No pharmacist has ever asked to see one or said that I needed one... It seems that a lot of us have been hit by this... Has anyone rang the diabetic advocates? I will be ringing them tomorrow.. I think it's quite disgusting that we haven't had a warning.. My prescription that I'm being fined for was back in November and I've just got a letter in March giving me 26 days to pay it!!
Gaz-M
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my card arrived today after18 days waiting and 15 days of having a prescription put in at the Dr,s which I couldn't/wouldn't pick up.
Luckily I,m on my last BP tablet tomorrow so will pick it up then.
No doubt I,ll still recieve a fine which I will not pay. Have you read
andybates e-mail? Worth a shot at calling them saying what he did
Luckily I,m on my last BP tablet tomorrow so will pick it up then.
No doubt I,ll still recieve a fine which I will not pay. Have you read
andybates e-mail? Worth a shot at calling them saying what he did
Hi Everyone,
Finally talked to a supervisor at NHSBSA late this afternoon, after calling them back to ask why someone had not yet rung me!!
Lovely chap named Justin who was as sweet as pie.
Because of all the hassle this has caused me they have decided to wave the penalty charge but would still like me to pay the £8.05 prescription charge if I ring them back with payment in a few days when my account will show that is all I owe.
They are going to send me a letter before the end of the week stating why the Certificate cannot be back dated more than a month, even though my doctor had sent them a form requesting this.
He also said on further discussion of the situation that "He and others in his department think it would be a good idea if Type 1 Diabetics and similar conditions were issued wuth a different type of card that would not need renewal and that if I was speaking to my MP please could I let them know that is the way the people working at NHSBSA (at least in the sending out certificate department) felt about the matter since the situation they found themselves in was ridiculous but "the system" did not allow them to do anything about it."
He also apologised for the rude manner in which his collegues in the penalty charge collection office had spoken to me and admitted that there had been many complaints about their attitude and manner of speaking to "clients". This was being addressed.
So everyone call the issuing office number 0300 3301341. Explain your situation, say that you will be writing to your MP and if you get no luck with the first person ask to speak to a supervisor.. Seems like there is a good chance that you will be let off the penalty charge at least.
Please everyone send their stories to [email protected]
They are building up a huge file asnd please write to your MPs about what is happening
Sorry to hear your tale TIsince98. The whole experience is very troublesome and exhausting. But keep on fighting. Look forward to what the diabetic advocates have to say
Finally talked to a supervisor at NHSBSA late this afternoon, after calling them back to ask why someone had not yet rung me!!
Lovely chap named Justin who was as sweet as pie.
Because of all the hassle this has caused me they have decided to wave the penalty charge but would still like me to pay the £8.05 prescription charge if I ring them back with payment in a few days when my account will show that is all I owe.
They are going to send me a letter before the end of the week stating why the Certificate cannot be back dated more than a month, even though my doctor had sent them a form requesting this.
He also said on further discussion of the situation that "He and others in his department think it would be a good idea if Type 1 Diabetics and similar conditions were issued wuth a different type of card that would not need renewal and that if I was speaking to my MP please could I let them know that is the way the people working at NHSBSA (at least in the sending out certificate department) felt about the matter since the situation they found themselves in was ridiculous but "the system" did not allow them to do anything about it."
He also apologised for the rude manner in which his collegues in the penalty charge collection office had spoken to me and admitted that there had been many complaints about their attitude and manner of speaking to "clients". This was being addressed.
So everyone call the issuing office number 0300 3301341. Explain your situation, say that you will be writing to your MP and if you get no luck with the first person ask to speak to a supervisor.. Seems like there is a good chance that you will be let off the penalty charge at least.
Please everyone send their stories to [email protected]
They are building up a huge file asnd please write to your MPs about what is happening
Sorry to hear your tale TIsince98. The whole experience is very troublesome and exhausting. But keep on fighting. Look forward to what the diabetic advocates have to say
I haven't yet received a penalty notice but collect around three prescriptions every two months for various medication including insulin. I had a certificate for exemption issued about twenty years ago and was told at the time it would last for life and I would just need to tick the box in the back if the script. About four years ago I was talking to the practise nurse who told me again it was for life " why would you have to renew - it's not like your diabetes will ever go away, it's an autoimmune disease". I suspect at some point I will get hammered with several penalty notices. Does anyone know if there are a maximum that could be issued? Or whether they would have been sent to my address from 15 years ago? Which is an old rental property long since boarded up or possibly now demolished? Thank you
Thanks - my address on the prescription was updated as soon as I moved because we changed doctors as it was in a neighbouring county. I couldn't sleep last night for worrying I am going to get over £1000 of penalty notices landing on my mat
Thyroidlady
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Your doctor should have issued you with a form that they sign and send off. I carry my exemption card around with me and show it whenever asked. The rules only changed recently. Write back and please ignorance and say that you have applied.
T1since98
Newbie
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I called the issuing office today and got my card number. They said I had to speak to the penalty charge people. So I called them and since I now have my card number (still waiting on the card) they took the penalty off and I still have to pay the £8.05 but that's fine with me... They said they were about to send out lots more of the penalties but because I have my number they won't...
caretaker
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same old argument s
doctors should have done this
chemist should have done this
But if you was pre 2002 no one would have told you to do anything.until you got the fine.
and we are the ones that are paying the fines (but no more) .
this is not ignorance. just bad administration and goverment guidance we are paying the price for there incompetance
doctors should have done this
chemist should have done this
But if you was pre 2002 no one would have told you to do anything.until you got the fine.
and we are the ones that are paying the fines (but no more) .
this is not ignorance. just bad administration and goverment guidance we are paying the price for there incompetance
Spiker
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No reports so far of any penalties much above a hundred odd quid so I would not worry about it being over thousand.
Thank you! Much help! I was recently diagnosed with coeliac, arthritis and osteoporosis so have been receiving lots of prescriptions as you can imagine ........ Am hoping for a ray of sunshine In my life soon !
donnellysdogs
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People that can't listen to other people's opinions.
People that can't say sorry.
Penalty charges are set at basically £90 + prescription charge.
If you were intentionally claiming for a free prescription without an illness then you would be taken to court where fines can be £1000.
Penalty charges and fines are two totally different issues. Penalty charges could increase to a point of the patient going to court and being considered for fines. However the first stage is a penalty charge of about £90 plus prescription costs....
donnellysdogs
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People that can't listen to other people's opinions.
People that can't say sorry.
