When is it time for insulin?

Allan93

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Diet only
This has been on my mind for a bit, one reason how I got to these forums as I've been looking for other people's experiences. Mainly how the conversation crops up about moving onto Insulin, do people have to ask or do GP Practices usually get it right based on results?

Initially I was on Gliclazide, full dose of 4 a day and through careful carb intake changes I got it down to one a day with minimal effect. I even came off tablets completely with GP supervision but after a couple of days BG started to rise again. Cycling was hard work but I could easily do 20 miles off road with only a few fuel stops.

At the beginning of last year something odd was happening. I started having problems with cycling where I'd be fine for around 5 miles and then hit a wall of zero energy. I wasn't out of breath or struggling in the usual fitness way - it was just that my legs wouldn't give anymore. I could chuck down glucose tablets or energy gels and it was still like peddling through treacle.

I mentioned it at a GP checkup, A1C had been fine so it was suggested to either skip the Gliclazide if exercising and test lots during the ride, Tried a few outings with a test every mile, I was getting a big BG drop after about 20 minutes (dropped from an 8.5 start to 5.4 in that time), early snacks sorted that, I did notice that later in the ride I was getting levels stuck around 7 and not going up or down much. Without gliclazide was pretty much the same.

Just after this, my next few A1C crept up to 6 and a bit and then just over 7 with pretty much no change in diet. Metformin was prescribed and A1C came down but the lack of energy when doing strenuous exercise pretty much persisted all last year. Along with added bloatedness and general digestive discomfort that was annoying but tolerable.

I'm due my next A1C in a few weeks, I've been keeping ticking over on the bike but no long epic rides over winter, but it's getting lighter on an evening and I have a job I can commute to by bike so I could do with sorting the energy problems.

BG response feels and measures slower, I've had 35g of oats for breakfast pretty much every day since 2011, love the stuff. I could predict in the first few years than 2 hours after I'd be getting close to 6 if I tested. It's been creeping up to 7 or 8 three or four hours later now. Other meals the same, a few weeks back a 30g of carbs wrap at 6pm and FBG at 5am the next morning was 8.5.

Just to surprise me the same meal situation a few weeks later and FBG is 4.8 so it's not consistent.

The random blood results and lack of energy cycling are making me wonder about Insulin and whether it's time. Yes, I've had a few more colds this year but the last one I had fairly low readings during the sniffles. I've not had drastically high levels but I'm already receiving injections for Macular Oedema so would prefer not to get regular double figures. I'm OK with eating and drinking during cycling, the first few years were spent learning what to eat to avoid hypos so I'm pretty sure it's not my exercise diet.

There's a family history of adult onset diabetes, my dad has been insulin dependant for 15 years now and is also an active cyclist in his 70s. I've never bothered with Type but we do seem to have the **** pancreas gene :)

I certainly feel diabetic at the moment, tired and lethargic. Part of me is hoping the next A1C is high as it may make the conversation easier to initiate, I'm also wondering if I missed something - although I did try going back to basics on diet to make sure I'd not justified some stupid diet change in my head.
 

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,650
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi. I guess one of my questions would be what level is your BMI? Insulin is at it's most useful if you are slim but still experiencing an HBa1C above 7'ish% despite a low-carb diet. Insulin if you are overweight is not ideal as getting weight down is the highest priority? I guess your cycling is causing blood sugar to go down as would be expected. It's not clear whether you are still taking the Gliclazide? It can cause hypos as you know. I would wait for the next HBa1C and take it from there.
 

Allan93

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Diet only
Thanks for the reply,

At diagnosis I was 6', 13 stone, 34" waist. BMI was 25 but given general build the GP wasn't too worried. Got it as low as 24 at one point any lower and I'd be able to hide behind a blade of grass.
It has been higher over the past few years as well going up to 26 at most, but I do try and keep at 13 stone as it's easy to maintain usually. The nurse usually tuts and tells me off if it weight creeps up and I am pretty good at listening to her.

I'm curretly on Gliclazide (1x80mg twice a day) and Metformin (1x500mg twice a day). Carbs are usually between 80 and 180g a day. Depends on activity levels.

It's the randomness at the moment find confusing, I think I had it in my head that there would be a clear cut off when it was obvious tablets weren't working anymore. My dad was pretty much immediately on insulin as it was obvious tablets weren't working. I've never really experienced anyone who has made the move to injections and how it came about.

My Nurse and GP have been brilliant so no problems waiting.
 

himtoo

Well-Known Member
Retired Moderator
Messages
4,805
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
mean people , gardening , dishonest people , and war.
why can't everyone get on........
i am not an "expert" on the so called pathway for type 2 commonly used by GP's here but from reading your posts it would sound as if this next A1c test is above 7.5 or so insulin will be on the agenda.
i am tagging a few of the low carb high fat diet advocates as they can offer some alternative thoughts to the NHS pathway and possibly the change of diet could help you avoid insulin if you wanted

and by the way -- welcome to the forum :)

, @LucySW , @graj0
 

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,650
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi. Thanks for the reply. I might hazard a guess that you could be a late onset T1 (LADA) and not T2. There are also other less common forms of diabetes such as the Brittle form. I would disucss this possibility of T1 with the GP/DN. There are two tests for LADA but some GPs don't really recognise it's existence despite tests for the antibodies involved. The treatment path is similar with tablets to start with an then onto insulin. The guidance from NICE is that once the HBa1C has gone over 7% (in old money) then insulin should be considered if tablets are failing. My Hba1C was 8.3% when I was moved over having gone up rapidly over the previous 6 months. I was on full Met, 320mg Gliclazide and Sitagliptin. So, if the tablets are working despite the peaks and troughs and your HBa1C is below, say, 7% then it may be too early for insulin. Note that there is no harm in starting insulin early.
 
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Allan93

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Diet only
Many thanks, I have booked an early nurses appointment after yesterday. Had a horrible day with BG hovering around 10 all day, counting carbs I'd had about 80g by lunchtime and was hitting 12.5. It was back down again this morning but I feel exhausted and it's creeping up again today. I'm still having to work so dozing off at my desk wouldn't do that much good!

I've been through and plugged all my latest BG results into SiDiary and the predicted A1C from the last 3 months is now at 6.9, actual A1C was 5.2 at the last checkup just before Christmas. The predicted results have been fairly close before.

I know I can keep it down by really cutting back on the carbs but don't want that as a long term fix, it works on the BG which is good but I found low carb and intense exercise difficult.
 

maryjey

Member
Messages
16
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
You can exercise intensively while low carbing but you must go through keto-adaptation period -switch the fuel from carbs to fat. It takes about two weeks of eating below 50 g of carbs (or even less). Once your body adapts to burning fat not glucose you have even more energy and much more reserves for prolonged exercise.
As for the insulin -you may need it temporarily and then get off it. It's not "once on insulin - always on insulin" - at least not for everybody.
 

rowan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,462
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
You can exercise intensively while low carbing but you must go through keto-adaptation period -switch the fuel from carbs to fat. It takes about two weeks of eating below 50 g of carbs (or even less). Once your body adapts to burning fat not glucose you have even more energy and much more reserves for prolonged exercise.
As for the insulin -you may need it temporarily and then get off it. It's not "once on insulin - always on insulin" - at least not for everybody.

I suspect I might have to go on insulin so was very happy to read this, I really don't want to have to stay on insulin if I can avoid it.
 

Allan93

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Diet only
Again thanks for the info, I'll pop up a reply after my blood test and checkup.

I must admit not being convinced yet by LCHF, but I remain open minded and have been looking into. I found the most enjoyable way to exercise was to have a fairly low carb diet during the less active times and take on board carbs during exercise, taking the approach of only eating the carbs I was using. It worked for a couple of years - just the last year or so that's been an increasing struggle.

Managed to get down to back under 6 today by cutting right back - about 40g of carbs. Hopefully it will stay low as the appointment is a couple of weeks off. If it goes high again I can get an emergency GP slot.