thin fit prediabetic - is there hope?

[CheeseJunkie]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum.
I've just found this forum while trying to find advice. Just diagnosed as pre-diabetic as part of the NHS health check. No follow up offered, although I'm about to change my doctor and press for this. I'm 55, 5'7" with BMI 20 and have very low blood pressure (passing-out low) and not-high cholesterol (with high ratio of HDL). I've had several symptoms of pre-diabetes without realising it, perhaps for around 9-12 months.

All the advice out there seems to be about lowering weight. I have always eaten healthily (no sugar, lots of pulses, lots of veg, everything wholemeal, fish, no processed food, no cans/juices, and few sweet things), and have been much the same weight for decades. But I'm probably eating too many carbs and have a fondness for root veg, and I also drink beer.

I'm gathering on the forum than carb reduction (and getting rid of the beer) could help me stabilise blood glucose. But I'll need to get the calories from somewhere else, and keeping my blood pressure up is important. And if I do more exercise (which I plan to do)... Can you eat too much fruit? Should I stick to (say) the odd apple?

Feeling a little glum, but determined to find a way through this that avoids diabetes. This was the last thing I expected.

 

[Safi]

I'm in a similar boat to you CheeseJunkie & have found this place very helpful so you're off to a good start there.

First of all I will suggest that you get yourself a blood glucose monitor so you can see how you react to various foods. Many people find fruit to be a problem but not everyone & the same is true of pulses. I'm not mad keen on fruit myself so I limit mine to blueberries (which many can eat without issues) but I do love pulses which I'm happy to say I can eat (albeit in limited quantities) without much of a blood sugar spike. Root veg can also be a problem but the only way you will know what causes issues for you is to test. I also enjoy a beer but stick to the low carb ones which seem to do me no harm.

I can't help on the issue of blood pressure but I'm sure if you post a question in the Ask A Question section or the Low Carb Diet section someone will be along.

Good luck & don't hesitate to post any question you may have - they're a very helpful & knowledgeable bunch

safi

 

[Robbity]

Hi @CheeseJunkie

Yes of course there's hope! You've had an early warning which many of us didn't get - but if we take matters into our own hands then there's hope for all of us.

Get yourself a glucose meter (many people use the Codfree brand meter as it has the cheapest test strips) so that you can check your progress in reducing/stabilizing your glucose levels.

Eating LCHF isn't a weight loss diet but can be used as such - you replace the missing/reduced carbs with extra fats and protein, and adjust your food intake according to whether you want to lose or in your case - maintain - weight, and there are online calculators you can use to work out your dietary requirements. Try here, for example!

And yes, if you want to reduce glucose levels, to say nothing of the beer - fruit is one of the things that you will need to cut back on, as much of it is full of sugar. Stick with berries to begin with, but use your meter to test how your body responds to different varieties as we are all different in what we can tolerate.

I'm tagging @daisy, so that she can post her new users information for you.

Robbity

 

[jack412]

prediabetic means you don't have to make a lot of changes, simple could be to cut wheat and it's products and don't buy low fat, have full fat products
most use a food counter like my fitness pal

This gives a simple overview to how it works
For me, the more carbs we eat the more carbs we want. They don’t give up easy and it’s biochemical

a long page and a few good video’s
http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/lowcarb101/a/firstweek.htm


From the @Southport GP study, who posts here

http://www.practicaldiabetes.com/SpringboardWebApp/userfiles/espdi/file/March 2014/PP Unwin final proofs revised.pdf

 

[daisy1]

@CheeseJunkie

Hello and welcome to the forum

Some useful answers here already. Here is the information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask all the questions you need to and someone will help.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find over 140,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes-and-whole-grains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to bloodglucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

 

[Patricia21]

Hi and welcome.
I was a thin fit prediabetic but unfortunatly I didnt know.I am now diabetic,It could have been avoided.I think.
I have lost weight with my new way of eating,but my blood sugar is under control.
I was worried about my weight loss and how far it would go but I am static now.
Read round the posts and ask any questions,someone will always help.
All the best

 

[CheeseJunkie]

Thank you everybody for so much fantastic advice!

Jack: I don't do anything low fat, never have, always full fat (Greek yoghurt, all cheeses, any food really).

I'm going to check out the BG meters... as well as deliver sign-up forms to new GP. I tried to get to see my GP end of last summer re some of these symptoms, but GP appointment situation (London) really, really dreadful. All I got was a clueless nurse.

 

[CheeseJunkie]

Well I'm now signed up with a new GP AND I have an appointment for this week. Which is pretty revolutionary after 13 years of 'there are no appointments'. Hoping the new GP will be to my liking.

 

[kathyH]

Hi Cheesejunki I am another one in the same Boat as you.
I was diagnosed pre Diabetis March 26 (my 80th birthday).quite a shock as I thought I was fit for my age.
So I found this site and all these wonderful people, and gave myself a kick up the backside!
Now I am following the Low Carb high Fat Diet, testing my Blood Sugars.
I have lost 6lbs and got more energy.
many thanks, Kathy.

 

[CheeseJunkie]

Thanks, Kathy. More energy is what I am looking forward to. At the moment I feel permanently drained. At least I now understand why.

 

[Jo123]

Hi cheesejunkie, I was in your position a few years ago, however my BMI was under 25 but not as low as yours.

I was devestated as I eat healthily, exercised and have watched my weight all my life, being slim was an effort for me! And I take my mum to all her hospital appointments for a myriad of serious health conditions, directly or indirectly caused by her type 2 diabetes, which according to NHS guidelines she has very good control of.

I was really gutted and then I found this website bought a blood glucose monitor and decided to low carb. Now let me say this isn't a diet I would choose by choice, and I have my misgivings about the high fat element, however though I am far more concerned by the results of high blood sugar to my health. So I low carbed and now years later my last hba1c was 32, which would be good for a normal person. My BMI now, just done it, is 19.1, but like you never having been fat, I am quite happy with and feel good at, so you could get your BMI down to 19. I walk 5 miles a day briskly, and am very strict with my low carbing. It is a pain but the results were instant for me in that the tiredness stopped, no more weeing in the night, blurred vision stopped and my legs, which I used to itch till they bled stopped itching. I was only diagnosed pre diabetic with a fasting reading of 6.1, so only just gone into pre diabetic readings!

I do test myself occasionally and have found that things I used to get high readings from I no longer do, so I do think my pancreas has recovered to some degree.

Anyway good luck and honestly I felt better straightaway once I cut my carbs.

 

[CheeseJunkie]

Great to hear your story, Jo123.
So the pancreas can recover? That's good to hear.

I have a question: I've just checked out the 'symptoms of diabetes' on the NHS Choices website, and I have 6 out of 7 of them. So that's ALL symptoms except weight loss (thirst, peeing all night, itching groin, permanent fatigue, cuts/spots etc. healing very very slowly, vision not up to scratch even though actively tested and corrected every year), plus some symptoms listed elsewhere too (such as some light brown patches appearing on skin).

So even just going on the symptoms themselves, I would not want this situation to continue, it's horrible - without adding the pre-diabetic BG reading to the equation.

So my question is: is it common for pre-diabetes people to have all the diabetes symptoms? It feels like my body is telling me in symptoms that I have diabetes, while the BG reading is pre-diabetes.

PS Now on day 4 of low carb

 

[Lynn1]

Great to hear your story, Jo123.
So the pancreas can recover? That's good to hear.

I have a question: I've just checked out the 'symptoms of diabetes' on the NHS Choices website, and I have 6 out of 7 of them. So that's ALL symptoms except weight loss (thirst, peeing all night, itching groin, permanent fatigue, cuts/spots etc. healing very very slowly, vision not up to scratch even though actively tested and corrected every year), plus some symptoms listed elsewhere too (such as some light brown patches appearing on skin).

So even just going on the symptoms themselves, I would not want this situation to continue, it's horrible - without adding the pre-diabetic BG reading to the equation.

So my question is: is it common for pre-diabetes people to have all the diabetes symptoms? It feels like my body is telling me in symptoms that I have diabetes, while the BG reading is pre-diabetes.

PS Now on day 4 of low carb

Hi.

I was diagnosed with prediabetes last October and had no symptoms. Was picked up by a routine blood test.

 

[AndBreathe]

Great to hear your story, Jo123.
So the pancreas can recover? That's good to hear.

I have a question: I've just checked out the 'symptoms of diabetes' on the NHS Choices website, and I have 6 out of 7 of them. So that's ALL symptoms except weight loss (thirst, peeing all night, itching groin, permanent fatigue, cuts/spots etc. healing very very slowly, vision not up to scratch even though actively tested and corrected every year), plus some symptoms listed elsewhere too (such as some light brown patches appearing on skin).

So even just going on the symptoms themselves, I would not want this situation to continue, it's horrible - without adding the pre-diabetic BG reading to the equation.

So my question is: is it common for pre-diabetes people to have all the diabetes symptoms? It feels like my body is telling me in symptoms that I have diabetes, while the BG reading is pre-diabetes.

PS Now on day 4 of low carb

Personally, I would invest too much head space to whether you are actually diabetic or prediabetic, because your treatment of the conditions would be exactly the same. The most important weapon in the diabetes armoury is diet. Diabetes is a metabolic disorder, so how we fuel the system definitely impacts on results.

Keep doing as you are, and hopefully your symptoms will fade into nothing over a short while.

 

[CheeseJunkie]

Personally, I would invest too much head space to whether you are actually diabetic or prediabetic, because your treatment of the conditions would be exactly the same. The most important weapon in the diabetes armoury is diet. Diabetes is a metabolic disorder, so how we fuel the system definitely impacts on results.

Keep doing as you are, and hopefully your symptoms will fade into nothing over a short while.

I think the main thing here is how I'm going to be perceived/treated by the NHS. I know what I have. But they seem to have certain measures. I know what I need to do. I don't seem to be on their horizon?

 

[Jo123]

Well as per my previous post my symptons were as stated, and they stopped once I addressed my high sugar levels. I can't speak for other people.

My GP considers me absolutely normal as far as pre diabetes in that my blood tests show no sign. But I know if I eat unwisely I could slip back!

With regard to my pancreas recovering that is only what I think, no medical basis. However for the first few years of pre diabetes if I tried slightly higher carb foods my BG shot up, now when I do it stays within normal boundaries.

 

[CheeseJunkie]

Thanks Jo123, so you had some symptoms and they stopped. That's good to hear.
I though this was old age! Glad to hear that's maybe not the case.

 

[AndBreathe]

I think the main thing here is how I'm going to be perceived/treated by the NHS. I know what I have. But they seem to have certain measures. I know what I need to do. I don't seem to be on their horizon?

Personally? I would have been quite happy not to be labelled diabetic. The personal treatment regime is exactly what you are doing; keeping a close eye on diet, and although not universally acknowledged by HCPs, testing to learn how you react to what you eat.

As others have said, any symptoms often evaporate, once you have got a bit of a handle on things. Many of us have found the NHS didn't really offer us oooooodles of support on diagnosis anyway, which of course is going to influence my response to you.

 

[CheeseJunkie]

"Many of us have found the NHS didn't really offer us oooooodles of support on diagnosis anyway,..."

So this morning I sat down with the nurse in the new practice I've just signed up with.
Seems nice enough. BUT she didn't know what the NHS-approved BG levels are for diagnosis of pre-diabetes or diabetes.
And in fact she was convinced they were something that they are not!
I had to show her the info in the NHS booklet that contains my health check reading printouts. Where that info in in bold and really, really clear!

Anyways, they've sent me off to a hospital to have a bunch of more blood tests including another HbA1c.

But this morning's good news is that my blood pressure is back to where it used to be, for decades (well, that's actually a mixed blessing, but better the devil you know!). In 10 days, it's gone from 122/88 to 105/67.

And that I'm feeling much, much more energy and spring in my step! Almost feeling normal :-/
This is after 10 days of eating good, good stuff with low carb, and 7 days of very low carb with ultra-good stuff: no spuds, no pasta, no rice, few pulses, no muesli, 1 slice spelt bread per day; much more Greek yoghurt, loads of seeds and nuts, more fish than usual, mostly oily. Fish and cheese even for breakfast - which I've always liked. Fruit mostly now apples (rather than citrus, bananas)

 

[stuffedolive]

Brilliant news CheeseJunkie. I wish I'd had this sort of advice 20 yrs ago when I was diagnosed PreD. I too am a thin active diabetic who has never been above BMI24.
Mine was spotted at a routine health check before a FO posting abroad - I felt fine. They didn't call it pre-diabetes as such and just said I should eat a balanced diet. I got no more advice nor checks until I went to the docs 5 yrs later when exactly the same thing happened, but this time they said I was pre-D and that I would inevitably become diabetic because that's how the condition progresses. So I continued with my 'healthy' carb loaded diet. Unsurprisingly eventually I became diabetic in 2004.. But thankfully I've manged to stay off the meds so far through diet and exercise.