quick question

elginlass

Member
Messages
8
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
i've been diabetic for a few years but have just been put on metformin recently (was in a bit of a daze at the time as my husband had suspected gallstone problems) so didn't take in all what the doctor was saying. bottom line if i can get my hsbc1 thing down and my weight hopefully, would there be a chance of getting taken off metformin, or at least get it reduced or is a case of once you are on it they won't take you off as they'll argue its the tablets that are bringing the readings down? also just bought a testing kit for psychological reasons because i need to 'see' how what i'm eating is affecting me, if my reading goes up to 10 after a meal does that mean i have to stop eating that particular food? any information would be helpful. thanks
 

orchid5

Well-Known Member
Messages
176
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi elginlass I too am on metformin, the advice seems to be test before you eat and then 2hrs later, some say 30 mins then an hr and see if your sugars spike, the NICE guidlines have 1.5mmol/l rise after eating. Good luck.
 

DeejayR

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,381
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Hello and welcome and well done for getting a meter. If your reading says 10 after a meal there's something in the meal that's doing it, and the chances are it's rice, pasta, spud or a more hidden carb like the cereal in sausages or the sugar in sauces and gravies. So I would reduce those first, or cut them out, along with bread. An acceptable figure 2 hours after eating would be under 8.5 for Type 2s, but some of us try to do better than that.
As for metformin I don't take any medication and I'm thin so others will advise.
 

kimbo1962

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,293
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi! When I was diagnosed last June I was on metformin at first but after a week I couldn't tolerate the side effects so the nurse practitioner put me on forxiga, 28 weeks months later after strictly following lchf and increasing exercise I was at non-diabetic hba1c of 39, remained on forxiga until January when my GP suggested I go meds free so I think if you show improvement they are keen to get you off meds! It's not the meds alone that alter your hba1c
 

Ruth B

Well-Known Member
Messages
447
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Last April my HBA1C had risen from 59 to 71 and my metformin was increased from 2 tablets a day to 4. That was when I deicide to do something about controlling it my self. my self By July it was down to 56 and by January this year it was down to 42. My metformin was then reduced from 4 tablets to 3 a day. I am hoping to have it come down lower at my next review, and hopefully drop my metformin back down to 2 a day. So it certainly is possible to reduce the dose or come off the tablets as long as you are taking action to control the condition your self.

A BS reading in double figures 2 hours after a meal would definitely tell me that there was something in the meal I really shouldn't have eaten, however it is all relative and partly depends on the reading before. If the reading was 5.5 which for me is a fairly normal reading then I would expect to go no higher than 7.0 - 7.5, even lower would be better. If however your background levels are still high, say a 9.5 before the meal then a reading of 10.0 would mean that the meal hadn't effected you that much. Try to keep the raise below 2.0 and then your overall levels will fall as well.

You might also want to test more often after meals to find out just how things effect you. Some foods might spike you really quickly, others might take a lot longer, particularly if the meal also contains a reasonable amount of fat. I still sometimes test hourly with new meals until I see the levels going down, possibly even with one extra one to make sure. The worst I had was a peak 5 hours after eating (I knew it was a naughty meal when I had it but it was just a one off treat). Also remember that things like exercise after a meal might also effect the reading.

Hope that all makes sense.
 
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elginlass

Member
Messages
8
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
hi ruth, thanks for that you've given me hope :) only just started taking my readings and that has been the highest so far, still learning.
 

Enclave

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Retired Moderator
Messages
2,602
Type of diabetes
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Diet only
I was on Metformin..and had it stopped when my sugars were under control, so it's not for life if you get your head around the new way of eating
 

JTL

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4,358
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Type 2
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Yes it's possible to reduce or come off Metformin.
I was put on three and listened to their dietary advice and kept getting worse.
I started listening to the people here and went LCHF and saw massive improvements so cut the metformin to one a day.
Doctors didn't agree but I'm not easily pushed or forced or convinced they know much about diabetes.
The LCHF works for me but I have gone back up to two Mets a day.
The Doctors didn't like the LCHF approach but have had to admit that it is working for me.
They now agree with the LC bit but can't get their heads around the HF bit.
I listen to my doctors but don't have to do what they say.
If I hadn't done a little research and only listened to their mostly outdated advice I would without doubt be fatter with bad sugar level control and on ever more medication.
 

elginlass

Member
Messages
8
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
[QUOTE="J
I started listening to the people here and went LCHF and saw massive improvements so cut the metformin to one a day.
Doctors didn't agree but I'm not easily pushed or forced or convinced they know much about diabetes.
The LCHF works for me but I have gone back up to two Mets a day.
The Doctors didn't like the LCHF approach but have had to admit that it is working for me.
They now agree with the LC bit but can't get their heads around the HF bit.

does lchf mean low carbs and high fat or fiber?
 

JTL

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4,358
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[QUOTE="J
I started listening to the people here and went LCHF and saw massive improvements so cut the metformin to one a day.
Doctors didn't agree but I'm not easily pushed or forced or convinced they know much about diabetes.
The LCHF works for me but I have gone back up to two Mets a day.
The Doctors didn't like the LCHF approach but have had to admit that it is working for me.
They now agree with the LC bit but can't get their heads around the HF bit.

does lchf mean low carbs and high fat or fiber?
LOW CARB HIGH FAT ...... http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf
 

Ruth B

Well-Known Member
Messages
447
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
While its referred to as Low Carb High Fat it really should be low carb normal fat. I have gone back to buying butter instead of marg light, cream for my hot chocolate and enjoying crispy bacon fat and full fat cheese with out feeling guilty, but I don't deliberately add dollops of fat to everything. Once I used to feel guilty about having butter with my new potatoes, now the potatoes are limited and I just have enough butter to enjoy them.

One thing to remember is that low fat variants of things tend to have a higher carb content than there full fat equivalents.
 
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elginlass

Member
Messages
8
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
While its referred to as Low Carb High Fat it really should be low carb normal fat. I have gone back to buying butter instead of marg light, cream for my hot chocolate and enjoying crispy bacon fat and full fat cheese with out feeling guilty, but I don't deliberately add dollops of fat to everything. Once I used to feel guilty about having butter with my new potatoes, now the potatoes are limited and I just have enough butter to enjoy them.

One thing to remember is that low fat variants of things tend to have a higher carb content than there full fat equivalents.

Had a look on th diet doctor site and was wondering how strict you have to be on the low carb side for it to be effective ie absolutely no bread, rice and potatoes or could you get away with just cutting them down?
 

BooJewels

Well-Known Member
Messages
443
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Insulin
While its referred to as Low Carb High Fat it really should be low carb normal fat.
This is my thinking too - I don't like the idea of gratuitously adding extra fat to my meals; after a lifetime of watching what I eat and always being overweight, the concept doesn't sit well with me at all. I tend to think of it as using full fat products rather than low fat and maybe not being as careful with the quantity of fat items like cheese in dishes as I have been - but only time will tell if it works for me longer term. I'm already cutting back on the amount of fat I was eating initially.

I want to lose weight and don't think I'm lowering my carbs as much as others feel able to do - I think being a bit more moderate (both carbs and fat) will allow me to live with it more successfully longer term. I'm trying to up my exercise as a third factor to improve my general well-being - I know that I feel better when I'm fitter.

[...] how strict you have to be on the low carb side for it to be effective ie absolutely no bread, rice and potatoes or could you get away with just cutting them down?
I think you will need to find this out for yourself - a compromise between the control you want to achieve and how you can sustain living your life long term - and your personal circumstances. Reading the low carb forum it's clear to me that some people are able to lower their carbs more than I think I could achieve and would be comfortable (and successful) with long term.

I've settled at the moment on around 60-70g of carbs per day. I allow myself 2 of what I call 'carb portions' each day. For example, I have a slice of Burgen bread with my breakfast and only incidental carbs with lunch (those in cheese, vegetables, salad, nuts, yogurt etc.) and a small potato, portion of brown rice etc.at dinner. I seem to be able to manage lunch with minimal carbs, but find breakfast and dinner is where I miss them. If I have a carb portion at lunch, I don't at dinner etc. I've also modified dishes I make to use lower carb alternative ingredients, working on the concept that they all help - and you can often lower your carbs without too much difference in the palatability of the end result. For example, we had chicken in a creamy sauce last night that we normally eat with brown pasta - so now I add a load of green veggies to the sauce and only a little pasta. So I've settled on a regime that I personally find manageable and sustainable in line with cooking as a couple etc.

I'd suggest reading guidance here (I was doing that as a lurker for a long time before I signed up) and see what ideas you like the sound of and do a bit of trial and error to see what will work for you. And use your meter to ascertain what foods are safer to eat than others - for example, you might find that you're okay with rice, but not pasta etc.
 
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JTL

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Had a look on th diet doctor site and was wondering how strict you have to be on the low carb side for it to be effective ie absolutely no bread, rice and potatoes or could you get away with just cutting them down?
First six weeks I think it was I went cold turkey no bread spuds noodle pasta white flour as in pizza etc and lost quite a bit of weight but then introduced carbs back in slowly.

I now boil my pasta drain rinse under cold tap reheat in microwave and it doesn't spike me.
I have fried bread.
White bread and pizza basd are a real no no for me though.
I'm sitting eating pasta as I type ... late tea and I started out 4.7 .... I'll try and remember to come back in two hours let you know what's happened.
Much smaller portions of course .... more cheese and toms and bacon.
 

mekalu2k4

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Messages
242
Type of diabetes
Parent
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
While its referred to as Low Carb High Fat it really should be low carb normal fat.
I am of the opinion that Low carb; low fat diet is better for most parts of the life for folks with 40+years. I talked to many GPs, medical experts - most do not agree with High fat part of this diet. Many are of the opinion:
- all bodies are not same; each body is different
- high fat diet will not spike sugar / insulin in the blood - so it appears T2D friendly in theory
- high fat diet definitely deposits the fat in blood vessels - it may not interfere with T2D, but definitely leads to heart problems later in the life
- it is not possible to push the bad diet out through exercise.

May be HF means - high fibre as Elginlass posted? if that is the case, i have to re-do all my experimentation. Never thought of high fiber diet. but sounds interesting. Have to eat lots of spinach? that experimentation is easy to undertake over two weeks. will try and let you folks know about it.
 

julifriend

Well-Known Member
Messages
373
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
I am of the opinion that Low carb; low fat diet is better for most parts of the life for folks with 40+years. I talked to many GPs, medical experts - most do not agree with High fat part of this diet. Many are of the opinion:
- all bodies are not same; each body is different
- high fat diet will not spike sugar / insulin in the blood - so it appears T2D friendly in theory
- high fat diet definitely deposits the fat in blood vessels - it may not interfere with T2D, but definitely leads to heart problems later in the life

If you have low carb and low fat then you only have two other sources to get your calories from, protein and alcohol. A high protein diet is bad for the kidneys and a high alcohol diet is bad for the liver. Hence the view that many take of moderate carbs and moderate fats being the route to follow if the amount of carbs they're eating allows them good control of their blood glucose levels. It's a fine balance but the support for a high fat diet being bad for the heart and arteries is slowing being discredited. It's becoming clear that for many diabetics a diet containing higher amounts of fat is preferable to higher carbs. In the end we're all different and we should all eat a diet which we believe minimises the overall damage to our bodies.
 

mekalu2k4

Well-Known Member
Messages
242
Type of diabetes
Parent
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I do not have diabetes
If you have low carb and low fat then you only have two other sources to get your calories from, protein and alcohol. A high protein diet is bad for the kidneys and a high alcohol diet is bad for the liver. Hence the view that many take of moderate carbs and moderate fats being the route to follow if the amount of carbs they're eating allows them good control of their blood glucose levels. It's a fine balance but the support for a high fat diet being bad for the heart and arteries is slowing being discredited. It's becoming clear that for many diabetics a diet containing higher amounts of fat is preferable to higher carbs. In the end we're all different and we should all eat a diet which we believe minimises the overall damage to our bodies.

Fully agreed. Impact of high protein diet on kidneys cannot be ignored. Impact of alcohol on liver is well known.

Re Moderation and Low level diets: Most body builders follow bulking (moderate to high diets) and cutting-out (low diets) phases with different proportions of carbs, proteins, fats etc. Some even believe that bulking and cutting-out phases should be rotated. High end, competitive range athletes are extremely careful of their diet. Mostly they themselves make their own food. If anyone carefully observes such folks go through more disciplined life (of diet and exercise and rest) than most T2D folks do. Some even consider meditation as part of exercise. If body fat goes up a little bit, they get worried, just as T2D folks do if BS levels get messed up. Just imagine it takes a lot of effort to reduce body fat by 1% when body reaches around 18% BF. Even rate of body weight loss reduces if the person is below BMI of 22. Personally I do see lot of similarities between these folks - just that T2D folks have to see GPs regularly and pop a few pills. T2D folks usually enjoy their life, whereas folks engaged in extreme training almost live very controlled / restricted life (can't eat salt, sweet, fatty oils, of course the story of carbs is known).