LADA diagnosis 3yrs ago, no insulin

worrywart

Active Member
Messages
33
All,

This is an update to my thread i started 3 years ago here: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/type-1-5-lada-scared.30656/
Feel free to read it for background but basically i had issues with my BS for a short amount of time at first diagnosis, after this i went raw vegan

My lHbA1C has been consistently between 3.8-4.6%
I usually only check my blood through A1C's every 3-4 months and I rarely check my blood glucose day to day
When i do fasting is around 4.4mmol/L, after meal (depending on what i eat) always below 7.0mmol/L, more often than not below 5.5mmol/L
I've had numerous antibody tests over the years and despite dropping (almost to zero at one point) i am still positive for GAD and IA2.
Typically i eat 80% raw, 20% cooked grains all organic
Exercise regime is currently run 3 miles 7days week or equivalent
I take a lot of supplements

However.....
Eating in this way however is very costly, would it be cheaper for me to manage T1? Probably.....
I also struggle with anxiety a LOT, worrying about what may come, bodily sensations etc.
The diet can be restrictive, i am always analyzing what i buy/eat and the "rules" i've set up for myself are taxing

I am lucky to have had the opportunity to do this when most people who get T1 don't but the point of this thread is to explain that although im doing this diet and it appears to be working to prevent the disease there has been a cost to my lifestyle.
Personally i feel that while im eating and exercising like this i will be able to keep T1 at bay indefinitely (Beta cell regrowth > destruction) (in my mind) but at a cost and whether i want to continue like this forever i do not know.


If you are interested in the finer details of what ive been doing and want to try it for yourself feel free to message me. But as i mention its not all rosey


Comments?
 

Ian DP

Well-Known Member
Messages
712
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Chips
Hi Karl
I remember reading your previous posts and glad you have come back with an update.
I too am LADA, diagnosed nearly 18 months ago with a GAD of over 2,000. Like yourself, so far, no insulin.
I have been following Dr Bernstein solution, this is working well and my BG levels are in his 'normal' range (4.6 fasting, 5.6 two hours after eating).
I am lucky, I enjoy the low carb high fat diet. I eat mainly fatty meats (which I enjoy) and salads (which I also like).

I could not manage your diet. I started to read 'The PH Miracle' by Robert Young. Where he believes the body needs to be alkaline, not acid. Interesting read, but then he said you need to be vegetarian..... So I lost interest one third through, because I know I could not achieve it.

Would your lifestyle not be better if you ate meat?. Why the veg diet?.... It is clearly working, and hats off to you for making it work. But I know I could not. You said you liked meat before, have you tried Dr Bernstein diet. In my opinion a much more easily managed and sustainable diet, and one that has sustained my weight (12.5 stone, BMI of 22. I went down to under 12stone prior to Dr Bernstein diet).

It's good to hear you are getting good support from your doctor. I have not seen mine since diagnosed 18 months ago. I see the specialist nurse every 3 months, and they have become very supportive, but simply say carry on with what you are doing because it's clearly working. I have been given insulin, over a year ago now, but not so far needed it. Came close just after Christmas when I had a viral infection, which raised my BG levels to 7.0 for a day, then slowly went down, but it increased my hba1c from 5.1 to 5.5.

If you think your diet is sustainable for life, stick with it. But it sounds like you are struggling with it. If so, try something that you see is sustainable that may / can also keep your BG levels at the normal levels without insulin. But be prepared / ready for insulin when needed.

My primary objective is to keep my BG at 'normal' levels. If I need to take insulin to do that, then I will. i think that's what you need to consider. That's what Dr Bernstein also recommends.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,642
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi. It's not for me to tell you what to eat as long as you realise that there is no evidence that having vegan or organic food will have any known effect on your diabetes. I think you may be worrying too much. Unless you do wish to be vegan, then do have some protein. Organic food can be costly and overall offers few benefits as most food has more worrying additives than those that organic food avoids. I've been offered organic yogurt stuffed full of (poisonous) sugar. It's your choice but do stand back from where you are now and see where you can relax.
 

Winnie53

BANNED
Messages
2,374
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@worrywart I think what you and Ian have accomplished is amazing, inspiring too. :)

I don't know if I'm a type 2 or type 1.5. And not ready emotionally to request those tests. I've been on the LCHF diet for 3 months. My blood glucose is in the 105 - 145 mg/dL (5.8 - 8.1 mmol/L) range, so not where I want to be yet, but much closer. I'm curious as to what nutritional supplements you're currently taking.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

Ian DP

Well-Known Member
Messages
712
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Chips
Worrywart, I think what you and Ian have accomplished is amazing, inspiring too. :)

I don't know if I'm a type 2 or type 1.5. And not ready emotionally to request those tests. I've been on the LCHF diet for 3 months. My blood glucose is in the 105 - 145 mg/dL (5.8 - 8.1 mmol/L) range, so not where I want to be yet, but much closer. I'm curious as to what nutritional supplements you're currently taking.
I take half a mutivitamin pill each day.
This because my GP did a blood test, which indicated my vit D was just in the normal range and myfitnesspal indicates that my intake of vitamin A and D, calcium and iron were a little on the low side. I only take half a pill because the pill gives 100% of your daily requirement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

worrywart

Active Member
Messages
33
Hello all,

Sorry for not answering sooner i had a tummy bug last weekend which has taken some time to shift. (well it couldve been a tummy bug or another round of raw vegan "detox symptoms" i read about).

Anyway @Ian DP thankyou for taking an interest and following what i have been doing, also thanks for sharing what you are doing aswell. In answer to your questions:
Would your lifestyle not be better if you ate meat? A: I cant say actually, whilst i like eating meat and would so love to chow down on some spare ribs i (and everyone for that reason) dont know what the underlying cause of the antibodies are and meat might be a controbuting factor. Sure the meat probably wouldnt have a major effect on my blood sugar but its contrary to the diet im following........
Why the veg diet? A: After being diagnosed three years ago i searched high and low for a solution to what seemed an inevitable progression to T1. The only people i found through my lengthy research were people that had gone all out on this raw vegan diet. I found the Dr Gabriel Cousens 21 Days Raw DVD and was so inspired i decided that was what i'll do.

There is a possibility these people are controlling/preventing the onset through what they eat, not necessarily curing themselves, but my GAD and IA2 antibodies have been close to zero and i think if i could control my anxiety they might disappear completely. If anything though i think while im eating like this i dont think (touch wood) it will come on

The diet has been hard at times but it does get easier, whether its sustainable i guess we'll see.........

@Winnie53 thank you so much for your kind comments, its words like those which make me feel much better/confident about what im doing
Regarding my supplements i take i've been taking different things at different times, its never really been consistent and is really only based on what i think i should be taking at the time.
Since the tummy bug i've cut right back but starting monday i'll go back on my standard regime:
1x good quality multivitamin/day
1x complex vitamin B/day
1x probiotic/day
3x 550mg nicotinamide/day (1 each meal)
10x spirulina/day
1x kelp/day
1xb12 1000mg/day

I've been on/off with:

magnesium
zinc
ginkgo biloba (taken for most of the last 3 years)
chlorella
vitamin d

Please keep the questions coming if you are interested but theres so much i've done over the last three years i'd be sat here all day writing it out





Edited to remove reference to a supposed cure for Type1.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people

Winnie53

BANNED
Messages
2,374
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Tom Malterre - ( http://www.nourishingmeals.com/p/about-us.html )

Tom, has a bachelor's and master's degree in nutrition, and just completed his certification in advanced functional medicine. When he's not writing books with his wife, he "coaches doctors and other health-care practitioners on Functional Medicine protocols". I haven't read his newest book, The Elimination Diet, though I am sampling sections... :)

When Tom lectures here, I go and listen.

From the new book, pages 107 - 113: "There are a handful of supplements that I like to recommend for most people before and during the Elimination Diet. The supplements will support you on this program in a variety of ways. It's important to note that this information should not serve as a replacement for advice from your own health-care practitioner. I recommend searching for a practitioner trained in Functional Medicine."

With that said, here's the list, some you're all ready taking: 1. multivitamin; 2. vitamin D; 3. essential fatty acids; 4. magnesium; 5. activated charcoal; 6. (Sulfur-rich compounds while on the Elimination Diet to help the body to neutralize toxins. I assume this wouldn't apply to you at this time but here's the list: broccoli sprouts, broccoli, brussel sprouts, garlic, radishes, arugula, and onions; Epsom salt baths for the sulfate, not just the magnesium, n-acetyl cysteine (NAC) and a Thorne Research formulation, Solvent Remover, that includes NAC, glycine, l-glutamine, lipoic acid, and taurine); 7. probiotics; 8. berberine (for conditions such as SIBO, IBS, IBD); 9. Meriva, an natural anti-inflammatory; and 10. digestive enzymes for "terrible gas, bloating, multiple loose bowel movements per day, or urgent bowel movements that float, or you see lots of undigested food in your stool, the addition of digestive enzymes may changer your life." To read more about the last three on the list, "berberine - digestive enzymes", read pages 112 - 113 on Amazon here using their "Look Inside" feature... http://www.amazon.com/Elimination-D...32495834&sr=8-1&keywords=the+elimination+diet

Looking at your diet and list of supplements, I wonder how you're getting enough omega-3, DHA, zinc, vitamin A (not beta carotene), and vitamin D based on this lecture by vegetarian Dr. Michael Gregor...

My other question is if you're getting enough magnesium. Tom writes "Magnesium is the most important mineral in the human body, as it is a cofactor for more than 300 enzymes." I personally am having to supplement 450 mg magnesium citrate daily to control muscle cramps. The amount needed is so high, it's really hard to get it from diet alone, and I eat vegetables with every meal.

Regarding vitamin D, Tom writes, on page 74, "When vitamin D levels are low, you're at greater risk for developing food intolerances and other health issues. A review published in Mayo Clinic Proceedings in 2013 associated adequate vitamin D levels with decreasing cancer, diabetes, heart disease, autoimmune diseases, irritable bowel, and muscle pain."

In his recent lecture, he talked about how a study revealed that vitamin D plays a needed role as a signaler in shutting off inflammatory response process within a 48 hour window.

Just some thoughts based on my readings. Sounds like you've done a tremendous amount of personal research and work to restore your health. :)





Edited to remove reference to a dubious cure for Type1 diabetes.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

Winnie53

BANNED
Messages
2,374
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Totally forgot about vitamin K2...

VITAMIN K2 AND INSULIN REGULATION
The fact that some of the highest levels of vitamin K are stored in the pancreas has lead to the idea that it may also be a necessary part of controlling blood sugar levels. Japanese scientists did study the link between vitamin K and insulin function in the body and, while it was an animal study, what occurred with vitamin K deficiency mimicked what occurs with diabetics. That is that the deficiency in vitamin K interferes with the clearance of glucose from the blood and then stimulates an excessive insulin release. (Sakamoto N, et al. 1999. Low vitamin K intake effects on glucose tolerance in rats. Int J Vit Nutr Res 69:27-31)

A small scale human study, done in 2011, concluded: “To summarize, we have demonstrated for the first time that vitamin K2 supplementation for 4 weeks increased insulin sensitivity in healthy young men.” (Hyung Jin Choi, MD, et al; “Vitamin K2 Supplementation Improves Insulin Sensitivity via Osteocalcin Metabolism: A Placebo-Controlled Trial”; Diabetes Care September 2011 vol. 34 no. 9 e147)

Read entire blog post here... http://nutristart.com/more-benefits-of-vitamin-k2-part-1/
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

smidge

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,761
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Totally forgot about vitamin K2...

VITAMIN K2 AND INSULIN REGULATION
The fact that some of the highest levels of vitamin K are stored in the pancreas has lead to the idea that it may also be a necessary part of controlling blood sugar levels. Japanese scientists did study the link between vitamin K and insulin function in the body and, while it was an animal study, what occurred with vitamin K deficiency mimicked what occurs with diabetics. That is that the deficiency in vitamin K interferes with the clearance of glucose from the blood and then stimulates an excessive insulin release. (Sakamoto N, et al. 1999. Low vitamin K intake effects on glucose tolerance in rats. Int J Vit Nutr Res 69:27-31)

A small scale human study, done in 2011, concluded: “To summarize, we have demonstrated for the first time that vitamin K2 supplementation for 4 weeks increased insulin sensitivity in healthy young men.” (Hyung Jin Choi, MD, et al; “Vitamin K2 Supplementation Improves Insulin Sensitivity via Osteocalcin Metabolism: A Placebo-Controlled Trial”; Diabetes Care September 2011 vol. 34 no. 9 e147)

Read entire blog post here... http://nutristart.com/more-benefits-of-vitamin-k2-part-1/

Winnie, that is so interesting. I'd forgotten all about K2. I took it for an extended period a couple of years ago because I was a bit low in calcium and deficient in vitamin D and was prescribed very high doses as a course of treatment, but I read that if you take vitamin D you should also take K2 as vitamin D helps the absorption of calcium, but it is K2 that directs it to the bones, so D without K2 can lead to calcium deposits where you don't want calcium deposits. Anyway, I stopped the K2 when I stopped the D. I never knew it might in itself be a useful vitamin to take.

Smidge
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

Winnie53

BANNED
Messages
2,374
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Smidge, so great to meet someone else here who was helped by K2! Now that I've learned more about vitamin D, I will take it for life. :)

My hope is that Vitamin K2, with its required partners vitamin A (cod liver oil, not beta carotene) and vitamin D3, will improve my cardiovascular health, along with the CoQ10, fish oil, and other heart healthy supplements I'm taking.

These are the two lectures that I've found to be the most informative on K2...


To learn more about John Whitcomb, MD, go here... http://www.naturalmilwaukee.com/MILW/January-2013/Brookfield-Longevity-and-Healthy-Living-Clinic/

He also has an interesting blog... http://www.newsinnutrition.com/

Dr. Whitcomb guided me to this study on improving bone health - (highly recommended for post menopausal women concerned about their bone health)... http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jeph/2012/354151/


To learn more about Kate Rheaume-Bleue, B.Sc., N.D., go here... http://doctorkatend.com/about/ Her book, Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox, is excellent and well referenced.
 

worrywart

Active Member
Messages
33
@Winnie53 wow thankyou for all that wonderful information! I hve been taking vitamin D quite regularly but like smidge i was not aware vitamin K was so useful. I think i'll definately add that to my regime!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
M

mrspuddleduck

Guest
Hi @worrywart. I'm absolutely no expert in any of this but am generally really interested. Question - could your supplements be increasing your anxiety? I really don't know, its just a thought because I have mal absorption and have always been told to be very aware of the total (supplement + diet + hidden) total of vitamins. I know there are some reports of niacin causing anxiety ( again, don't know how researched it is).
2nd question - Do you taken vegan supplements and where do you get them?!!!!
Thanks, not sure if its for me but I'm really interested! Good luck with it!! Sue xxxxx
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

Winnie53

BANNED
Messages
2,374
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@worrywart I reread all the posts here to refresh my memory. I missed that you were experiencing anxiety in your OP. I looked up nicotinamide - ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinamide ). Curious as to how it's helping you as it works for some things, but for other things, Vitamin B3 works, when nicotinamide doesn't. I personally have not figured out a way to tolerate B3. I suppose what I should do is start with a very small dose and work my way up slowly... :)

I've suffered from anxiety my entire life. One of the surprising benefits of the LCHF diet is that I'm so much calmer, and I don't know why. I have eliminated or greatly reduced sugar, fruit, all grains, starchy vegetables and legumes. I've increased raw and cooked vegetables and healthy fats - (butter from grass fed cows, hard cheeses, extra virgin olive oil, avocados, walnuts, almonds, pecans, organic, virgin coconut oil) - but protein intake from meat, poultry and fish has remained the same, no increase or decrease.

I continue to read information on both the whole plant, no or low fat diets as well as information on the LCHF diet. What continues to concern me is eliminating all fat from the diet. It doesn't make sense to me because the brain and nervous system is primarily made of fat.

Are you consuming any fat? I'm curious as to what you think.

Good to hear back from you. I'm interested in what you're doing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

worrywart

Active Member
Messages
33
Question - could your supplements be increasing your anxiety?

Personally i think the supplements MAY have a some effect on my anxiety but i believe my anxiety is largely down to my huge fear of contracting T1. For all those who are T1 by the way i realise its probably not that bad but for me it is my big C.
So basically i think no is the answer

2nd question - Do you taken vegan supplements and where do you get them?!!!!

I try to take vegan/veggie supplements wherever possible, whilst i was in the UK i used Healthspan a lot although since they did their "restructuring" and moved their distribution centre from guernsey to mainland Europe their delivery service has gone **** and customer service is poor

Anyway these are the brands and quantities i can remember having taken over the last 3 years:

When i was in the UK:
http://www.healthspan.co.uk/products/multivitality-for-vegetarians 1 a day
http://www.healthspan.co.uk/products/ginkgo-biloba-6000mg 1 a day
http://www.healthspan.co.uk/products/vitamin-b-complex 1-3 a day (they are pretty weak in comparison to other brands)
http://www.solgaronline.co.uk/Nicotinamide-Vitamin-B3-550mg--100-Vegicaps_p_597.html what i have taken has varied, most of the time 1 a day but sometimes i ramp it up to 3 a day
http://www.healthspan.co.uk/products/zinc 1 a day
http://www.healthspan.co.uk/products/kelp-extract 1 a day
http://www.jarrow.com/product/75/Methyl_B-12 1 a day (you will see they are the 5000mcg but after a few B12 tests that were crazy high, i stepped down to the 1000mcg) (not that crazy high B12 is a bad thing, i just didnt see the point in spending more for higher dosage)
http://www.sourcenaturals.com/products/GP1788/ 3 a day (the link says 1000UI but mine are 400UI)
Organic raw spirulina (i forget the brand) i took these on/off but average 5-10 500mcg pills a day
Organic raw chlorella, didnt take these so much but occasionally ergo i cant remember the brand or dosage

Since moving from the UK to Houston and now Calgary i obviously dont have access to healthspan so now i use a lot of NOW supplements.

Now im in Calgary:

http://www.nowfoods.com/Vitamin-B-100-100-Capsules.htm 1 a day
http://www.nowfoods.com/Magnesium-Citrate-Veg-Capsules.htm 1 a day
http://www.nowfoods.com/Chlorella-500mg-Certified-Organic-200-Tablets.htm
http://www.nowfoods.com/Spirulina-500mg-180-Tablets.htm 10 a day
http://www.nowfoods.com/Eco-Green-Multi-Vitamin-90-Veg-Capsules.htm 1 a day
http://www.nowfoods.com/Ginkgo-Biloba-60-mg-240-Veg-Capsules.htm 1 a day
Still take the healthspan zinc, kelp
Still take the source naturals vitamin D

Man that took a long time to list, hope it helps! :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

worrywart

Active Member
Messages
33
@worrywartCurious as to how it's helping you as it works for some things, but for other things, Vitamin B3 works, when nicotinamide doesn't. I personally have not figured out a way to tolerate B3. I suppose what I should do is start with a very small dose and work my way up slowly... :)

From what ive found Nicotinamide is a love hate relationship, on the one hand i've read in several places (including cousens' books) that Nicotinamide is good for prevention/healing T1 but on the other hand it does have side effects....

Particularly: decreased urination and migraines which i get pretty much every day around 12 hours after taking it



Of course! i have lots of olive oil and coconut oil in my diet along with a tonne of nuts every day (whether own their own or made into a meal)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

worrywart

Active Member
Messages
33
p.s. sorry for the delays in answering questions, with work, making food and exercising i dont get a lot of time to myself :)
 

worrywart

Active Member
Messages
33
Guys there's been an alarming change unfortunately

Thursday afternoon i came home and tested my blood 3 hours after a basic (phase 1.5 rainbow green) salad. It was 8.8 mmol
It took me a 3 mile run and 3 mile walk to get it down to around 5.5 mmol

Yesterday my fasting was 4.7 mmol indicating there's still some function to my pancreas however i stepped back to having meals that were phase 1.0 (ultra basic low carb) and struggled to keep my numbers in range for the day. Without any activity after a meal i was 6.5 mmol. And these a crazy low-carb meals!

Today my fasting was 5.0 mmol indicating it might be on the rise. I've decided to make a last ditch effort and have gone right back to eating only 4 litres of phase 1.0 green smoothies a day for 7 days (if i can last that long). I am taking all manner of vitamins and drinking bean pod tea to try and keep the numbers down. Again even drinking ultra low GI smoothies i have struggled to keep my numbers in range. This morning i was 6.5 mmol after a 30 minute walk and just now 5.3 mmol after a one hour walk. I have been checking before meals also and have noticed the numbers have crept up from what they were 2 hours after the last meal despite not having eaten anything in the interim.

There is still a small glimmer of hope but in all honesty i think i'll be on insulin within a week. I am really upset and frightened, cant think about anything else and spending lots of my time feeling terrible and crying. I'm seeing my GP on Monday but if i don't last that long i'll have to go to A&E :(

I feel terrible :(
 

worrywart

Active Member
Messages
33
UPDATE

So thursday, friday saturday i struggled to keep my numbers in range despite starting on saturday my 7 day experiment consuming only phase 1 green smoothies. Saturday afternoon i drank a pathetic cabbage & onion smoothie, my peak after 1 hour was 9.0 and 8.3 2 hours after eating. My ketones went through the roof to around ~80mg/dl (ketoacidosis) so i decided to go to A&E. At this point i had resigned myself to thinking i was going on insulin and despite all my raw vegan efforts, it hadnt worked. After a few hours at A&E they rechecked my blood sugars which had now dropped to 6.2 mmol 3 hours after the pathetic smoothie and they deemed me too low to take action. They did all sorts of blood tests and said they were all coming back fine. Also they "looked" at my high ketones and made the assumption they were only because of my restricted diet (total BS) and discharged me about 7pm. I didnt eat that night due to fear and went 18hours fasting until sunday morning.

Now this is were it gets weird....

Sunday morning fasting was 3.8mmol, 2 hours after 2 phase 1 smoothies (double the amount that yesterday blew my head off) i was 5.7mmol. Throughout the day my numbers got better and better and Ketones started to lower. Today (monday) is the similar - 3.5 mmol fasting and good numbers in the 4.X-5.4 range 2 hours after eating. I went to see my GP this morning and told him the whole thing, he explained i might have had a virus/infection (unlikely) or that it was my anxiety that caused the raised BS and all the upset. I know anxiety does cause elevated BS bu the fact of the matter was last thursday i was not anxious and got a 9.0 3 hours after eating a basic salad. Like all good GP's he only told me to come back when i was over 7 mmol fasting and 14 two hours after eating. As if im going to wait until it gets that bad to do something....

Im open to the possibility i might have/had a virus but i think more than likely my pancreas was struggling and possibly on its last breath. All i can say is that im glad my little smoothie experiment appears to be working (touching wood here) and i will continue this for the next 4 days before going back to stage 1 for 1-3 months depending on how i feel / how my numbers hold up.

FYI i also added some new supplements to my standard intake which may have helped. These are:
Shilajit extract
Gymnema sylvestre
Chromium
Bean pod tea before each meal

If i maintain good BS levels and eventually go back to "normal" i will never doubt the raw vegan diet again

Fingers crossed
 

worrywart

Active Member
Messages
33
P.s. if anyone is interested, here are my phase 1 recovery smoothie recipes i invented. Each recipe assumes a 2 litre blender jug and the product is split into 2 single litres which are a meal each.
Yes they taste weird.....

Tomato & Parsely
1+1/2 avacado
4 good size tomatos
4 sticks celery
Small handful spinach
Half bunch parsley
1 Lemon juice

Lemon & Ginger
2 Avacado
4 small/2 large lemmons juice
Good chunk of ginger (2" at least)
2 cucumber
3 stick celery
3 big leaves dino kale

Pepper Mania
1+1/2 Avacado
1 red, 1 green, 1 yellow pepper
4 radish + greens
2 cloves garlic
2 sticks celery
1/2 Bunch of corriander
4 good chard leaves (or add until light green)

Anniseed broth
1+1/2 avacado
1/3 fennel
2 cucumber
3 lemons juice
2 sticks celery
1/2 unch of dill
Small handful kale/dandelion greens

Cabbage & onion soup
1+1/2 avacado
2 tomatoes
1/8 head cabbage
1/8 white onion
1 zukkini
2 cloves garlic
Small bunch kale
Bunch fresh mint OR parsley

Egg plant surprise (disgusting)
2 avacado
1/3 egg plant
1 cucumber
Good chunk ginger
2 lemon juice
1 bunch spinach
1 bunch oregano