Gliclazide

[Amy6825]

Hi
I have been put on gliclazide as a trial instead of continuing on insulin, I have not had a diagnosis as to what type I am (the doctors can't seem to make a decision as my test results don't point to anything definite). My question is does anyone know whether there are alternative tablets that could work if gliclazide doesn't work or is that the strongest?
Thanks

 

[Eurobuff]

Hi
I have been put on gliclazide as a trial instead of continuing on insulin, I have not had a diagnosis as to what type I am (the doctors can't seem to make a decision as my test results don't point to anything definite). My question is does anyone know whether there are alternative tablets that could work if gliclazide doesn't work or is that the strongest?
Thanks

Hi Amy. My mother is type 2 and on Gliclazide (maximum dose). She was put on metformin originally but couldn't tolerate it (this was back in 2002 when the XR release didn't exist). She was then taken off them and put on Avandia and half the dose of Gliclazide she is on now. Then Avandia was taken off the market. She was told she would have to go on insulin (which I assume is the strongest medication?) but because she was blind they told her that they wouldn't allow her to inject herself and would have to have a nurse come round daily to the house. She refused to do this. After a consultation with the doctor he decided to up to dose of Gliclazide to the maximum dose (which is where she's at now). She's been taking this dose since 2010. Her last hba1c was higher than what they would like and tried to get her to go on metformin in addition to Glicclazide, which she refused. So I would think if the Gliclazide isn't working there's a possibility that they could put you on an additional tablet/s.

 

[Amy6825]

Hi Amy. My mother is type 2 and on Gliclazide (maximum dose). She was put on metformin originally but couldn't tolerate it (this was back in 2002 when the XR release didn't exist). She was then taken off them and put on Avandia and half the dose of Gliclazide she is on now. Then Avandia was taken off the market. She was told she would have to go on insulin (which I assume is the strongest medication?) but because she was blind they told her that they wouldn't allow her to inject herself and would have to have a nurse come round daily to the house. She refused to do this. After a consultation with the doctor he decided to up to dose of Gliclazide to the maximum dose (which is where she's at now). She's been taking this dose since 2010. Her last hba1c was higher than what they would like and tried to get her to go on metformin in addition to Glicclazide, which she refused. So I would think if the Gliclazide isn't working there's a possibility that they could put you on an additional tablet/s.

Ok thanks, I was on insulin but only very small amounts and still having a hypo every day, so small the specialist nurse even said there was pretty much no point so the consultant said I could try gliclazide, I was started on what I was told was the lowest dose but have found in the week I have been on it my BG readings have been getting higher gradually, I have doubled the amount I was taking which doesn't seem to be making a difference and I'm worried I will have to go back on insulin as I hated it.

 

[andy williams]

If you are on Metformin as your primary drug, once you hit maximumm dosage they will use gliclazide as a 'fine tuner'. I take 2x500 of met with breakfast and 2x500 with tea and half a gliclazide tablet with lunch.

In addition, once you are prescribed gliclazide, DVLC are informed and will usually send you a letter warning you that having any hypos they can withdraw your licence. Which is fair enough I suppose..

 

[Bluetit1802]

Hi Amy,

Could your diet need a bit of tweaking? If you give us an idea of what you eat in a typical day maybe something will jump out at us and we can help. It doesn't matter what type you are, or indeed what medication you are on, diet is the key to lower BS levels and hence lower medication.

 

[Eurobuff]

Ok thanks, I was on insulin but only very small amounts and still having a hypo every day, so small the specialist nurse even said there was pretty much no point so the consultant said I could try gliclazide, I was started on what I was told was the lowest dose but have found in the week I have been on it my BG readings have been getting higher gradually, I have doubled the amount I was taking which doesn't seem to be making a difference and I'm worried I will have to go back on insulin as I hated it.

Hi Amy, what dose are you on? My mother is on 4 x 80mg. Two on a morning, two at night (she takes them as soon as she's eaten) She was told to take them with or immediately after food.

 

[Amy6825]

Hi Amy,

Could your diet need a bit of tweaking? If you give us an idea of what you eat in a typical day maybe something will jump out at us and we can help. It doesn't matter what type you are, or indeed what medication you are on, diet is the key to lower BS levels and hence lower medication.

Ok so typically breakfast is weetabix and a coffee no sugar, lunch either a sandwich on brown bread or soup with a piece of bread and tea will be oven chips with chicken or boiled potatoes with veg and meat or something similar, I only drink water or sugar free juice all day and rarely snack, I will occasionally have a small piece of cake or ice cream for a pudding but that doesn't seem to effect my readings too much.

 

[Amy6825]

If you are on Metformin as your primary drug, once you hit maximumm dosage they will use gliclazide as a 'fine tuner'. I take 2x500 of met with breakfast and 2x500 with tea and half a gliclazide tablet with lunch.

In addition, once you are prescribed gliclazide, DVLC are informed and will usually send you a letter warning you that having any hypos they can withdraw your licence. Which is fair enough I suppose..

I am only on gliclazide, I was on insulin but have been taken off that and on gliclazide, was originally on 40mg twice a day but have put that up to 80mg twice as of today.

 

[Amy6825]

Hi Amy, what dose are you on? My mother is on 4 x 80mg. Two on a morning, two at night (she takes them as soon as she's eaten) She was told to take them with or immediately after food.

I started on 40mg breakfast and 40mg at tea time, I was only told the meals to have them not before during or after so have been having them just before meals and not knowing when I should have it. I have as of today started having 80mg at breakfast and 80mg at tea time.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Ok so typically breakfast is weetabix and a coffee no sugar, lunch either a sandwich on brown bread or soup with a piece of bread and tea will be oven chips with chicken or boiled potatoes with veg and meat or something similar, I only drink water or sugar free juice all day and rarely snack, I will occasionally have a small piece of cake or ice cream for a pudding but that doesn't seem to effect my readings too much.

There is an awful lot of carbohydrate in that typical day, and far too much for a diabetic. Have you been advised about the role of carbs in diabetes? Once inside the system, all carbs convert to glucose which then rushes round the blood stream. Glucose is just what we don't want, or need. Cereals, bread (any colour), potatoes, rice, pasta and things made with flour are the worst culprits I'm afraid. It isn't just sugar, cakes or ice creams that cause problems.

Do you test during the day? Perhaps you could start testing out your meals. Test immediately before you eat then again 2 hours later. This will show you what that meal has done to you. You should not be seeing a rise of more than 2mmol/l, and preferably a lot less. If you do see a big rise there are too many carbs in that meal and you could try reducing the portions considerably, or avoiding those major carbs for a while at least.

Perhaps abandon your Weetabix (and presumably the milk as this is also something we need to be careful with), and try something else. Maybe a full fat plain yogurt with 3 or 4 small strawberries or raspberries added for taste, or what about eggs? Eggs are fine no matter how they are cooked. Fried, scrambled, omelettes, poached, boiled. Bacon and eggs is good. Cooked meats, cheese etc also a good choice.

For lunch sandwiches and tinned soups are not good choices for everyone. There is a lot of added sugar in soups, and they tend to use flour for thickening it. Look at the nutrition label on the tin for "total carbohydrates" and you will see there are a lot. You could also try to do without potatoes, or just have 2 or 3 small new potatoes, then have extra veg to make up for it.

These are just some ideas, but you will see for yourself what these foods do to you if you test as I suggested. Hopefully by drastically reducing those carbs you will find your levels come right down, and thereby possibly be able to reduce your medication in time..

 

[Eurobuff]

Ok so typically breakfast is weetabix and a coffee no sugar, lunch either a sandwich on brown bread or soup with a piece of bread and tea will be oven chips with chicken or boiled potatoes with veg and meat or something similar, I only drink water or sugar free juice all day and rarely snack, I will occasionally have a small piece of cake or ice cream for a pudding but that doesn't seem to effect my readings too much.

Wow, that's a lot of carbs! I am following a low carb diet, so I don't eat chips, or Weetabix (Weetabix really affects my BG level and I only ate 1). Do you know how many carbs you are eating daily? I have an app on my phone that I put in what I'm eating. At the start I was eating about 220grams of carbs per day, my hba1c was 7.9 and was told I would be going on tablets. I asked for some time to try and turn it around. My last couple of hba1c's were 5.4% I currently eat about 50 grams of carbs (net).

 

[Lamont D]

I started on 40mg breakfast and 40mg at tea time, I was only told the meals to have them not before during or after so have been having them just before meals and not knowing when I should have it. I have as of today started having 80mg at breakfast and 80mg at tea time.

Have a read around the forum, especially in the low carb forum. Also read the success stories thread, also the thread on what posters have eaten today!
You have been given an unhealthy diet for someone who has been diagnosed with diabetes!
That amount of carbs, would have me so ill!
It is no wonder you need the glicizide!
You really do need to rethink your diet!
Someone will be along shortly to give you links to numerous sites that give you an idea on how to get your blood glucose levels in control.

Please take heed of the advice, it is the food you are eating that is causing your high levels!
I've tagged @Bluetit1802 to get you the links.

 

[Amy6825]

There is an awful lot of carbohydrate in that typical day, and far too much for a diabetic. Have you been advised about the role of carbs in diabetes? Once inside the system, all carbs convert to glucose which then rushes round the blood stream. Glucose is just what we don't want, or need. Cereals, bread (any colour), potatoes, rice, pasta and things made with flour are the worst culprits I'm afraid. It isn't just sugar, cakes or ice creams that cause problems.

Do you test during the day? Perhaps you could start testing out your meals. Test immediately before you eat then again 2 hours later. This will show you what that meal has done to you. You should not be seeing a rise of more than 2mmol/l, and preferably a lot less. If you do see a big rise there are too many carbs in that meal and you could try reducing the portions considerably, or avoiding those major carbs for a while at least.

Perhaps abandon your Weetabix (and presumably the milk as this is also something we need to be careful with), and try something else. Maybe a full fat plain yogurt with 3 or 4 small strawberries or raspberries added for taste, or what about eggs? Eggs are fine no matter how they are cooked. Fried, scrambled, omelettes, poached, boiled. Bacon and eggs is good. Cooked meats, cheese etc also a good choice.

For lunch sandwiches and tinned soups are not good choices for everyone. There is a lot of added sugar in soups, and they tend to use flour for thickening it. Look at the nutrition label on the tin for "total carbohydrates" and you will see there are a lot. You could also try to do without potatoes, or just have 2 or 3 small new potatoes, then have extra veg to make up for it.

These are just some ideas, but you will see for yourself what these foods do to you if you test as I suggested. Hopefully by drastically reducing those carbs you will find your levels come right down, and thereby possibly be able to reduce your medication in time..

Thank you for that advice, in all honesty my diet was a lot more like what you have suggested until I saw a diabetes dietician who said I needed carbs at every meal, I feel so frustrated as I'm struggling to understand the whole thing with being told different things all the time by the specialists. I do check my BG before every meal but was told that it was t necessary to check after meals and I'm struggling to get enough strips for my reader on prescription to be able to do it more than what I have been told.

 

[Amy6825]

Have a read around the forum, especially in the low carb forum. Also read the success stories thread, also the thread on what posters have eaten today!
You have been given an unhealthy diet for someone who has been diagnosed with diabetes!
That amount of carbs, would have me so ill!
It is no wonder you need the glicizide!
You really do need to rethink your diet!
Someone will be along shortly to give you links to numerous sites that give you an idea on how to get your blood glucose levels in control.

Please take heed of the advice, it is the food you are eating that is causing your high levels!
I've tagged @Bluetit1802 to get you the links.

Thank you

 

[Bluetit1802]

Thank you for that advice, in all honesty my diet was a lot more like what you have suggested until I saw a diabetes dietician who said I needed carbs at every meal, I feel so frustrated as I'm struggling to understand the whole thing with being told different things all the time by the specialists. I do check my BG before every meal but was told that it was t necessary to check after meals and I'm struggling to get enough strips for my reader on prescription to be able to do it more than what I have been told.

Sadly the advice you had from the dietician is typical, and quite honestly outrageously bad. The tide is beginning to turn though, and more and more health workers are coming round to the fact that carbs are bad, particularly for diabetics. Why put all that glucose into our bodies, bodies that already cannot cope with glucose? Madness.

As for test strips, maybe you could consider buying your own kit with cheap strips. Many of us find the Codefree works out very economical. Otherwise, rather than test all meals every day, just test one meal a day, a different one each day? Testing just before a meal and not after is a waste of effort, time, and blood!

 

[Amy6825]

Sadly the advice you had from the dietician is typical, and quite honestly outrageously bad. The tide is beginning to turn though, and more and more health workers are coming round to the fact that carbs are bad, particularly for diabetics. Why put all that glucose into our bodies, bodies that already cannot cope with glucose? Madness.

As for test strips, maybe you could consider buying your own kit with cheap strips. Many of us find the Codefree works out very economical. Otherwise, rather than test all meals every day, just test one meal a day, a different one each day? Testing just before a meal and not after is a waste of effort, time, and blood!

That makes sense, where would I be able to buy equipment from? May be a daft question but I am often dubious of legitimate websites. The dietician said that I needed the carbs to make sure I have the energy source I need. I feel so thick in all of it as I just don't understand it, I genuinely feel that my mind is clouded lately could this be the high BG?

 

[Bluetit1802]

That makes sense, where would I be able to buy equipment from? May be a daft question but I am often dubious of legitimate websites. The dietician said that I needed the carbs to make sure I have the energy source I need. I feel so thick in all of it as I just don't understand it, I genuinely feel that my mind is clouded lately could this be the high BG?

Please don't feel "thick" about this. We were all confused to begin with, and most of us got the rubbish advice you were given. This forum is a good place to be because we are all diabetics of one sort or another with a vast amount of personal experience.

The Codefree kit is here http://www.homehealth-uk.com/medical/blood_glucose_monitor_testing.htm

Discount codes:
5 packs 264086
10 packs 975833

Carbohydrate does give us energy, but so does fat. We can get all the energy we need from eating natural good fats such as butter, cream, full fat yogs, cheese, eggs, avocados, nuts, olive oil, meat and fish. If we go low carb and increase our good fats our bodies learn to use the fats for energy in the absence of sufficient carbs. We also need to add fibre back as we do lose some of this on low carb, so adding seeds to food (milled flaxseed is a good one) and eating more green vegetables helps. We also need to drink loads of water every day.

Have a look at this thread, which you may find helps http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/a-new-low-carb-guide-for-beginners.68695/

And yes, a fuzzy brain and mind can be a symptom of high blood sugars.

 

[Amy6825]

Please don't feel "thick" about this. We were all confused to begin with, and most of us got the rubbish advice you were given. This forum is a good place to be because we are all diabetics of one sort or another with a vast amount of personal experience.

The Codefree kit is here http://www.homehealth-uk.com/medical/blood_glucose_monitor_testing.htm

Discount codes:
5 packs 264086
10 packs 975833

Carbohydrate does give us energy, but so does fat. We can get all the energy we need from eating natural good fats such as butter, cream, full fat yogs, cheese, eggs, avocados, nuts, olive oil, meat and fish. If we go low carb and increase our good fats our bodies learn to use the fats for energy in the absence of sufficient carbs. We also need to add fibre back as we do lose some of this on low carb, so adding seeds to food (milled flaxseed is a good one) and eating more green vegetables helps. We also need to drink loads of water every day.

Have a look at this thread, which you may find helps http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/a-new-low-carb-guide-for-beginners.68695/

And yes, a fuzzy brain and mind can be a symptom of high blood sugars.

Thank you so much, will having all the fatty stuff not mean that I will gain weight though? I have managed to get my weight lower than what it was before I was pregnant, being 10st10 and 5ft9 I'm not overweight and don't want to become so.

 

[eddie1968]

Maybe insulin was a bad choice to start with if a diagnosis of any type is in question. You are eating a lot of carbohydrates but you do need them in your diet, they are essential to your body but the right carbs with good glycaemic loads. If you want to go LCHF then try and set a limit on how many grams of carbs a day you want to eat. However don't remove carbs from your diet totally as I believe they are needed in my opinion.

 

[Amy6825]

Maybe insulin was a bad choice to start with if a diagnosis of any type is in question. You are eating a lot of carbohydrates but you do need them in your diet, they are essential to your body but the right carbs with good glycaemic loads. If you want to go LCHF then try and set a limit on how many grams of carbs a day you want to eat. However don't remove carbs from your diet totally as I believe they are needed in my opinion.

So would you say have eggs and bacon for breakfast salad with meat for lunch and then include some carbs with evening meal or have a small amount with every meal?