Moving to 4mm needles

[rochari]

Hi Folks

Like many, despite rotating sites, I've got way too many bumps and the DSN on Friday suggested I change my injection site from stomach to my thighs and backside. I've always found the stomach area best for me as I am now very skinny and held back to moving to my legs and arms becasue my GP suggested I avoid them until I put more weight on. Ironically, when I had a bit of fat it was those areas I used the most. I have to say though that the secondary illness I have means there not a hope in h**l's chance of any weight going on so I need to find alternative areas.

I've read as much as I can about the 4mm needle but find that some recommend pinching, others say it is not required. As I am very thin I don't want to inject into muscle. All the DSN said was 'it's your choice' although she did suggest reducing my insulin by 2 to 4 units as the 'new' site should let the insulin act the way it should.

Any advice from users of the 4mm size would be much appreciated.

I find it all a wee bit frustrating now as after so many years of injecting I seem to be having more problems now and in a weird way becoming more uptight about it all. Don't even get me started about my fear of injecting into a vein. It happened only once in 50 years and I never want that experience again.

Bill

 

[fozzie84]

I recently changed to 4mm needles as well as starting to use my legs for the first time in many years. I was also concerned about the lack of fat. My dsn said to do them on the outer thigh, not too close to the knee or hip. I find it's best to sit down and then relax the leg I'm injecting and I do tend to lightly pinch the area. Once I had the knack I found I could do them standing up, just requires a little more balance to relax the leg you're injecting! I was actually pleasantly surprised how well this site worked for me. Hope you can make it work for you ☺

 

[wiserkurtious]

Hi guys I've just been diagnosed type 1 and they've put me on the 8mm due to not having much fat thinking about going onto 4mm,8mm looks a little overkill.

 

[eddie1968]

I am Type 2 and have been injecting for over a year now. The 4mm (32 gauge) needles still cause the occasional bruise but all in all I find them fine.

 

[Robinredbreast]

Same as Eddie, I get a little bruising too. I was on 8 mm a few years back and my DSN said I shouldn't be on these because the needle is far too long, as I'm just under 9 stone and not had any problems with the needles. There used to be a 5 or 6 mm, but not sure if they are still available.
Good luck.

 

[wiserkurtious]

I am Type 2 and have been injecting for over a year now. The 4mm (32 gauge) needles still cause the occasional bruise but all in all I find them fine.

i've bruising also,especially around the belly thinking the 8mm is overkill for me

 

[Daibell]

Hi. My DN put me straight onto 4mm when I started insulin and recommended the stomach. I have never really suffered bruising. I now do my Bolus in the stomach and my Basal on the outer thighs as my stomach was hardening a bit. I tend to hit nerves more often on the thigh. I'd hate to use an 8mm needle and the 4mm is fine for me.

 

[nicolarse01]

I am also very skinny, I have the 4mm but prefer the 5-8mm needles. I find the 4mm needles bruise me quite badly. I have been injecting for over 23yrs though, so can only assume its because my skin has toughened and I need the longer ones to get through.

 

[noblehead]

There's some good advice in the following on where to inject insulin and injecting techniques:

http://www.bd.com/us/diabetes/page.aspx?cat=7001&id=7261

I never pinched-up the skin using 4mm needles.

 

[Elbetts]

I seem to bruise on the 4mm needles but I only inject my tummy , haven't got the nerve to try my legs yet

 

[mrspuddleduck]

I'm on 4mm and very underweight. Use them in my tummy and thighs with no problems. Wouldn't even consider an 8mm! Xx

 

[koicarp]

I had 10mm needles in hospital (the only size they had) then 8mm and then I was prescribed 4mm when going home. I was only diagnose about a month ago but I inject both my belly and my legs and strangely I never feel anything when jabbing my leg. My belly is a bit like playing Russian roulette as sometimes it picks and sometimes it doesn't. Maybe I'm still just getting used to it.

I wondered about pinching up the skin too, I'm not super skinny but I'm pretty certain the 4mm needle would only sink into my fat and not muscle if I didn't pinch up but I'm too nervous to try it!

 

[donnellysdogs]

One thing to note for all needles. The more expensive
BD Microfine Ultra needles have a lubricant on them and my nurse said there is no way that she would expect any diabetic to be given cheaper needles...that are unlubricated.

So if you aren't getting these BD ones prescribed by GPs and they are giving you unoiled ones it may be worth pointing out that as an average of 4 injections a day... Thats 1400 injections a year- how would they feel about putting unlubricated steel in their body!!!

Just a side angle on needles.

I too am lean and muscly and no fat and the 4mm ones are the ones I use. I've recently come off the pump with 6mm needles (sets) which weren't working effectively due to my muscle mass and no fat.

I used my bum cheeks for vast majority of 30 years but currently being able to get some skin on my stomach to use. I do pull the skin away from my body on my stomach.
Legs have too much blood near the surface to use. So still using bum a little too.

No bruising and for some reason-always been a habit with me-I always massage the area of injection for a few seconds after. Was never told to do this, just always done it and goodness knows why I do it.

 

[rochari]

Thanks everyone for your replies. noblehead, that's a great reference which I've printed off and donnellydogs it's the BD Microfine Ultra 4mm I've been given.

Bill

 

[Shar67]

I'm glad you posted this because I was thinking about asking GP for 4mm needles using 5 at present, I inject all over my bum, tum, thighs, upper arm, calf, depending where I am what I'm doing

 

[Robinredbreast]

I seem to bruise on the 4mm needles but I only inject my tummy , haven't got the nerve to try my legs yet

Honestly, it is not that bad at all, that was the first place I injected into 26 years ago and still do it. Give it a try and see, we diabetics have nerves of steel sometimes Good luck.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Honestly, it is not that bad at all, that was the first place I injected into 26 years ago and still do it. Give it a try and see, we diabetics have nerves of steel sometimes Good luck.

Me too.. I remember injecting in my leg with my first injection after idiotically asking if they could numb it first for me!! I got told "don't be stupid it doesn't hurt!!" Boy the injections were big in those days!!! Scarey!!

 

[Robinredbreast]

Me too.. I remember injecting in my leg with my first injection after idiotically asking if they could numb it first for me!! I got told "don't be stupid it doesn't hurt!!" Boy the injections were big in those days!!! Scarey!!

Yes, a scary experience, but one we just had to do

 

[lizdeluz]

My GP practice now prescribes 4mm mylife Penfine classic needles as standard after a letter announcing that my former BD micro fine 5mm needles were less 'cost-effective'!
I'm managing ok with the new 4mm needles, but this brand are definitely a cheaper product: they bend and break more easily so I'm having to be more careful. The good thing about this is that I am much less inclined to retain the needle for the next shot - something I shouldn't do anyway! (But more cost-effective? )
I inject both NovoRapid and Lantus into the fat on my stomach, sometimes top of thigh. Stomach tends to be more easily accessible in restaurants/company. I used to get awful and unsightly bruising on arms and thighs, but that was long ago, pre-pen days, when I was issued with disposable syringes with long needles. Can't reach bum cheeks easily because of frozen shoulders.
Technique: depends on whether stomach or thigh, I think, but I do a gentle stretching or spreading of the site with 2 fingers before injecting. (There aren't enough emoticons for this subject). Personally, a pinch-up isn't for me.
Like @donnellysdogs I massage the injection site for a couple of seconds to help the insulin on its way. On rare occasions, I've had a knot form under the injection site and don't know what it is. A bruise, a blockage? Might make that dose less effective.

 

[Daibell]

One thing to note for all needles. The more expensive
BD Microfine Ultra needles have a lubricant on them and my nurse said there is no way that she would expect any diabetic to be given cheaper needles...that are unlubricated.

So if you aren't getting these BD ones prescribed by GPs and they are giving you unoiled ones it may be worth pointing out that as an average of 4 injections a day... Thats 1400 injections a year- how would they feel about putting unlubricated steel in their body!!!

Just a side angle on needles.

I too am lean and muscly and no fat and the 4mm ones are the ones I use. I've recently come off the pump with 6mm needles (sets) which weren't working effectively due to my muscle mass and no fat.

I used my bum cheeks for vast majority of 30 years but currently being able to get some skin on my stomach to use. I do pull the skin away from my body on my stomach.
Legs have too much blood near the surface to use. So still using bum a little too.

No bruising and for some reason-always been a habit with me-I always massage the area of injection for a few seconds after. Was never told to do this, just always done it and goodness knows why I do it.

I was changed from BD Microfine to GlucoRX due to cost and expected them not to be as good but to be honest I find them just as good for injecting and never had one bend or break and pain and bruising are the same not that I have a roblem.