Paramedic making decisions on Type1's ability to look after his children.

[catherinecherub]

Did anyone see this article?

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2015...d-to-social-services-after-hypo-93457456.html

 

[Robinredbreast]

Yes, I saw it and It was shocking to read. Such a crass sweeping statement from a NHS paramedic who is supposed to be there to help people who are in serious condition's, whatever that condition may be. Unjustified.

 

[Bethanee]

He needs to find a new profession.

 

[eddie1968]

This might be one of those "doctor impostor" types, maybe he pretends to be a paramedic when he's not being a dishwasher in some hotel. He's obviously lost his mind.

 

[Robbity]

That's appalling - particularly since he appears to have arrangements in place in case of problems.

Robbity

 

[paramedic]

Am a T1D Paramedic and am disgusted.
However, I sincerely doubt the guy-in-green was a Paramedic and was probably a lower grade Ambulance Crew.

 

[Robinredbreast]

Am a T1D Paramedic and am disgusted.
However, I sincerely doubt the guy-in-green was a Paramedic and was probably a lower grade Ambulance Crew.

Tbh, it shouldn't matter in what line of NHS work they are in.

 

[Spiker]

This is something I have had to seek legal advice on... it is a worrying idea. However...

Ultimately it is not up to the paramedic or green bus driver or whatever he was. Fortunately. It is up to children's services. And they understand there is an extremely high bar to remove children from a parent's care. Just as a for instance, it is not sufficient to have a diagnosis of serious paranoid schizophrenia (nothing against paranoid schizophrenics, many of my friends etc).

 

[Spiker]

Actually on rereading the article I am going to play devil's advocate. It's not clear if his ex partner, or any other adult, was at the scene. It's also unclear (but implied) that his young children were in his sole care at the time of the severe hypo.

I have never had a severe hypo with my young children in my sole care. I would consider that to some significant extent I would have failed as a parent if I let that happen. I consider it a failure of sorts even to have allowed them to once partially witness it, because it can be pretty distressing (fitting etc). As a parent I do everything I can to prevent that situation arising. It has completely changed [my] whole attitude and approach to hypo prevention. It sounds like this guy also has a lot of measure in place - app on his phone, teaching the oldest child (only 5) how to phone in an emergency, maintaining safety arrangements with his ex. Nonetheless, accidents can happen. If, hypothetically, the guy was in sole charge of his children and lost consciousness, leaving the eldest child, only 5, to call his mum who called the ambulance, that is putting a lot of distress on the small children, leaving them without adult supervision and handling a medical crisis on their own - maybe in a public place, we don't know? - and I can see why the NHS staff responding could be quite upset.

 

[Robinredbreast]

Children are very resilient and will get over upsetting things, good on the child for keeping his head and making the call. What would happen to an epileptic having a fit and has children and forget to take their medication, or had a nasty shock or distress and went into a fit, the list could go on.....................

 

[mrspuddleduck]

Just playing devils advocate here, mainly because none of us have heard the paramedics side. I'm a bit confused by the article, was the man alone with his kids or had his ex girlfriend arrived by the time the ambulance for there? If he was alone then wouldn't the paramedic have no option (is a duty of care) but to ensure the safety of the kids as well as the safety of the man? If the man was so confused that he couldn't get any words out, maybe the paramedic wasn't aware the the ex girlfriend was contactable?? If so, social services would be the acceptable course of action to provide temporary care until other family members could be found. I'm NOT condemning, criticising or condoning any parties involved in this scenario but I think the article doesn't give enough information for me to make a fair or informed judgement.
@paramedic, I'd be really interested in what you are trained to do in circumstances like this.

 

[paramedic]

Just playing devils advocate here, mainly because none of us have heard the paramedics side. I'm a bit confused by the article, was the man alone with his kids or had his ex girlfriend arrived by the time the ambulance for there? If he was alone then wouldn't the paramedic have no option (is a duty of care) but to ensure the safety of the kids as well as the safety of the man? If the man was so confused that he couldn't get any words out, maybe the paramedic wasn't aware the the ex girlfriend was contactable?? If so, social services would be the acceptable course of action to provide temporary care until other family members could be found. I'm NOT condemning, criticising or condoning any parties involved in this scenario but I think the article doesn't give enough information for me to make a fair or informed judgement.
@paramedic, I'd be really interested in what you are trained to do in circumstances like this.

My training is to refer patient to D services, support mum, dad, patient (which could be either), leave at home if hypo is resolved and include GP and Diabetic Nurse.
Show support, kindness and apprpriate referalls to help & support.
I was diagnosed 2 yrs ago but treated every patient in this protocol for 14 years prior to that.
Slán
Mark

 

[mrspuddleduck]

My training is to refer patient to D services, support mum, dad, patient (which could be either), leave at home if hypo is resolved and include GP and Diabetic Nurse.
Show support, kindness and apprpriate referalls to help & support.
I was diagnosed 2 yrs ago but treated every patient in this protocol for 14 years prior to that.
Slán
Mark

Thanks Mark, its really interesting to know how you guys are prepared for the stuff you have to deal with. What would happen if you had to take the adult into hospital and there were kids in the house? Not saying this was the situation in this case, just really interested!

 

[paramedic]

I'd take the chikdren with me to A&E or ask police to "babysit" until a suitable relative or guardian can be found

 

[itconor]

My training is to refer patient to D services, support mum, dad, patient (which could be either), leave at home if hypo is resolved and include GP and Diabetic Nurse.
Show support, kindness and apprpriate referalls to help & support.
I was diagnosed 2 yrs ago but treated every patient in this protocol for 14 years prior to that.
Slán
Mark

Had the worst hypo of my life in the middle of the night a few years ago wife paniced as i wasnt really replying to her just chugging back lucosade, by the time the ambulance showed up i was comming back. they still wanted to take me in and made me sign some form saying i had refused treatment, tbh i dont think they where best impressed they had been called.

to be fair to the wife i was in the mid ones and didnt seem to be able to talk, but i had an entire bottle of the good stuff in me in about 30 seconds....

 

[Spiker]

I think that was the right call all round. You were touch and go and might not have made it. She was right to call 999. And by not taking the ambulance trip a valuable vehicle remained available for an hour for other emergencies. So the ambulance guys were probably glad you had self treated by the time they got there.

 

[Anaelena]

Just playing devils advocate here, mainly because none of us have heard the paramedics side. I'm a bit confused by the article, was the man alone with his kids or had his ex girlfriend arrived by the time the ambulance for there? If he was alone then wouldn't the paramedic have no option (is a duty of care) but to ensure the safety of the kids as well as the safety of the man? If the man was so confused that he couldn't get any words out, maybe the paramedic wasn't aware the the ex girlfriend was contactable?? If so, social services would be the acceptable course of action to provide temporary care until other family members could be found. I'm NOT condemning, criticising or condoning any parties involved in this scenario but I think the article doesn't give enough information for me to make a fair or informed judgement.
@paramedic, I'd be really interested in what you are trained to do in circumstances like this.

I do wonder the same things . You took the words right out of my mouth . I have children and as a type 1 I understand the balance . There seems to be some info missing in this article .

 

[Eldorado]

Apparently the father does not have hypo awareness, but he does seem to have good back up plans in place. I think the paramedic overreacted but without hearing his version of events it's not fair to jump to a conclusion either way. If he saw two young children in the care of someone who had passed out in the throes of an extreme hypo the situation would seem out of control. But no action is being taken, so really it's a bit of a non-story, imo.

 

[Marchticus]

In reply to many questions. Yes I do have an insulin pump. My 5 year old son has always had an extremely high interest in my diabetes. I've shown him everything, I even let him do my bloodsugar for me, me and my ex partner taught Elliot what to do in an I emergency, invade I did fall hypo whilst I was looking after them, and that was to call mummy and if I fall unconscious then to phone for an ambulance. It wasn't as such putting that responsibility on him, it was for emergencies if something like this happened. How many people can be proud to say that their 5year old son potentially saved their life? Me ex partner had got to the scene in under 5 minutes so much sooner than the paramedics. But the way the paramedic treated me, the way he spoke to me and the things that he said I think we're extremely insulting and wrong. He said that it was child abusers putting that kind of responsibility on a child. Ok so what would have happened if Elliot hadn't been show. What to do? I could have slipped into a coma and potentially died. Then the children would have certainly been at risk. I suffer from hypoglycemia unawareness, and I can't deal with hypos on my own as I black out and will eventually have en epileptic seizure which is triggered from an extremely low bloodsugar. I've had diabetes for 16 years and i've battled against it for the last 10. I've tried and tried my best to deal with it, but it's an on going battle. I have many underlying health problems, some caused by poor control, others just came upon me. I have other problems in my life to deal with and then I have my diabetes. It's made me morbidly depressed and I just can't cope with it! Please I did not ask for slander, I just wanted to raise awareness as to how I was treated by a professional. It was as if I'd brought it on my self. Or I was a violent drunk. I was in need of reassurance and comforting not to be made to feel like a victim. I hope this clears things up for you all. Thank you so much for your support.

March.

 

[Anaelena]

In reply to many questions. Yes I do have an insulin pump. My 5 year old son has always had an extremely high interest in my diabetes. I've shown him everything, I even let him do my bloodsugar for me, me and my ex partner taught Elliot what to do in an I emergency, invade I did fall hypo whilst I was looking after them, and that was to call mummy and if I fall unconscious then to phone for an ambulance. It wasn't as such putting that responsibility on him, it was for emergencies if something like this happened. How many people can be proud to say that their 5year old son potentially saved their life? Me ex partner had got to the scene in under 5 minutes so much sooner than the paramedics. But the way the paramedic treated me, the way he spoke to me and the things that he said I think we're extremely insulting and wrong. He said that it was child abusers putting that kind of responsibility on a child. Ok so what would have happened if Elliot hadn't been show. What to do? I could have slipped into a coma and potentially died. Then the children would have certainly been at risk. I suffer from hypoglycemia unawareness, and I can't deal with hypos on my own as I black out and will eventually have en epileptic seizure which is triggered from an extremely low bloodsugar. I've had diabetes for 16 years and i've battled against it for the last 10. I've tried and tried my best to deal with it, but it's an on going battle. I have many underlying health problems, some caused by poor control, others just came upon me. I have other problems in my life to deal with and then I have my diabetes. It's made me morbidly depressed and I just can't cope with it! Please I did not ask for slander, I just wanted to raise awareness as to how I was treated by a professional. It was as if I'd brought it on my self. Or I was a violent drunk. I was in need of reassurance and comforting not to be made to feel like a victim. I hope this clears things up for you all. Thank you so much for your support.

March.

Wow . I believe we are lucky here to be able to hear from you as opposed to reading an article . As I said we live in a balance and it is extremely difficult for anyone who doesn't live it daily to understand . I do live it and completely understand . It sounds like you taught your children the right thing and cannot understand how someone could fault you for that . I wish you and your children all the best.
Anaelena .