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Yep, for the most part if I maintain that 4-11 range I'm fairly satisfied. Although 4 will disrupt my analytical/cognitive abilities significantly for the short term (30-45 mins) any lower and it has more pronounced effect.I consider that within the range of 4-11 mmol/l has no affect on my cognitive ability or emotion. Above and below that range I acknowledge that I have a shorter fuse. What were you considering small fluctuations @Neemo?
TOTALLY agree. But I believe these discussions can be a catalyst to spur Individuals to make positive changes.Thanks for the clarification @Neemo, but try as we might it isn't always possible to keep bg levels consistently between 5-7mmol no matter how hard we try.
Actually on reflection this statement isn't just irrelevant in practice to the point - which is continued good function of the brain despite variable glucose - and not just irrelevant to real world ketogenic diets, which invariably contain carbs above this minimal level - it's also factually incorrect, because there is no specific part of the brain that requires exclusive glucose.4.Even when your body has adapted to using ketones to fuel neurons, there are still some parts of the brain that cannot use ketones and rely on glucose, hence protein gluconeogenisis Is required to find it (on ketogenic diet)
In what way a strawman? What are you supposing is the strawman?Rather strawmanish response
Not as long as that. Days.
I have found that readaptation is faster.
Your conflating a number of points....In what way a strawman? What are you supposing is the strawman?
You're saying good stable brain function depends on glucose levels not found in ketogenic diets, except perhaps via gluconeogenesis. That's your argument and that's what I am disagreeing with. No strawman.
TOTALLY agree. But I believe these discussions can be a catalyst to spur Individuals to make positive changes.
I've had diabetes for 20 years now, when I was first diagnosed the Dieticians/Nurses/Doctors were adamant I should be on a high carb diet.
I think clinical guidelines are very generic, and some of the advise I received in my adolescence left a lot to be desired.
TOTALLY agree. But I believe these discussions can be a catalyst to spur Individuals to make positive changes.
I've had diabetes for 20 years now, when I was first diagnosed the Dieticians/Nurses/Doctors were adamant I should be on a high carb diet.
I think clinical guidelines are very generic, and some of the advise I received in my adolescence left a lot to be desired.
Personally I have made a number of ( sometimes difficult) lifestyle choices in recent years, which to a YOLO cynic may be considered extreme. This has afforded me a degree of freedom, vitality and mental wellbeing which I felt was lacking in my earlier years of inconsistent control.
I'm an strong advocate of;
1.low GI foods
2.Low/moderate carb
3.maximising Insulin sensitivity through resistance training and food choices
I'd agree with this, I've actually had conflicting advice by some HCPs on how to treat a hypo one said 50ml of lucozade another 180ml, I actually feel I need about 100ml so neither are correct. The longer I've had this and the more I read, the more I feel that the they really know nothing. I've also been told 'eat carbs with every meal' and this stuff. I am concerned about insulin resistance, but get the feeling that the HCPs opinion is: 'oh it just happens'. When it comes down to it, what do they actually know? They're still not sure on the cause of type 1.
Yep, I agree - I would like to have a look at the training syllabus for Diabetes Nurses/Dieticians (Actually, I will request this tomorrow). The ignorance that is perpetuated is TOO **** high, I really get annoyed.
This high carb "myth" has/is leading to lots of premature complications and deaths...
I appreciate it can be difficult for some to even stay around seven, however I strongly believe excessive carbs are the primary reason. I am personally striving for a HBA1C if5.5, even if that means I never eat a packet of crisis again.
I'm stubborn, but more importantly determined. If the doctors had advised me the choice of the 3 below(I believe they should offer this kind of advise to all Type 1s), I would and do definitely take option 3;
1.Eat anything you like, take an injection/don't, take a test/or dont = u will live a short life, die an unpleasant death. Look on the upside u can binge to your hearts content; YOLO
2.Eat lots of starchy carbs, keep your HBA1C at 7 or below = you'll escape the first decade or 2 relatively unscathed, however the macrovascular/microvascular damage is being done; the retinopathy, neuropathy, atherosclerosis is nearly knocking at the door..and to top it off u will be middle aged, overweight with Insulin resistance - even if you want to change when problems start occurring it may be too late.
3.Carbs are the enemy. .You will have a lifetime of vegetables, Low GI carbs like lentils and good ol chicken breasts. No big bowls of pasta or pizza for you :/ = But you will be a LEAN, MEAN glucose busting machine, whose small sacrifices/food choices have paid massive dividends in later life. You'll be entering your later years with few or no complications, and you'll even be healthier then some of your non diabetic peers who chose to smoke, over indulge etc.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...SY_DM4&usg=AFQjCNHR-Y0-ulqcG-apLh2t0vx4hhjb2Q
The thing is, when they come up with these clinical guidelines they utilise data models stats and percentages and then extrapolate generic guidelines for a whole group.
However, you are disregarding the following:Yep, I agree - I would like to have a look at the training syllabus for Diabetes Nurses/Dieticians (Actually, I will request this tomorrow). The ignorance that is perpetuated is TOO **** high, I really get annoyed.
This high carb "myth" has/is leading to lots of premature complications and deaths...
The thing is, when they come up with these clinical guidelines they utilise data models stats and percentages and then extrapolate generic guidelines for a whole group.
For example the HBA1C ranges that the NHS recommends for TYPE 1's, below 7 is considered 'good'. However looking at studies and data, they really should be advising diabetics to try to safely achieve 6 and lower.
Scary study regarding HBA1C correlation with cardiovascular (stroke and heart attack mortality) (link below)...
I appreciate it can be difficult for some to even stay around seven, however I strongly believe excessive carbs are the primary reason. I am personally striving for a HBA1C if5.5, even if that means I never eat a packet of crisis again.
I'm stubborn, but more importantly determined. If the doctors had advised me the choice of the 3 below(I believe they should offer this kind of advise to all Type 1s), I would and do definitely take option 3;
1.Eat anything you like, take an injection/don't, take a test/or dont = u will live a short life, die an unpleasant death. Look on the upside u can binge to your hearts content; YOLO
2.Eat lots of starchy carbs, keep your HBA1C at 7 or below = you'll escape the first decade or 2 relatively unscathed, however the macrovascular/microvascular damage is being done; the retinopathy, neuropathy, atherosclerosis is nearly knocking at the door..and to top it off u will be middle aged, overweight with Insulin resistance - even if you want to change when problems start occurring it may be too late.
3.Carbs are the enemy. .You will have a lifetime of vegetables, Low GI carbs like lentils and good ol chicken breasts. No big bowls of pasta or pizza for you :/ = But you will be a LEAN, MEAN glucose busting machine, whose small sacrifices/food choices have paid massive dividends in later life. You'll be entering your later years with few or no complications, and you'll even be healthier then some of your non diabetic peers who chose to smoke, over indulge etc.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...SY_DM4&usg=AFQjCNHR-Y0-ulqcG-apLh2t0vx4hhjb2Q
Hi Lucy,Neemo, on a ketogenic diet the minimum amount of glucose you're talking about is manufactured by the liver from dietary protein.
Thanks for your input.However, you are disregarding the following:
Something like 95% of UK diabetics are unable to achieve an Hba1C below 6.5%, regardless of treatment/eating.
It is possible with intensive monitoring and insulin therapy for a T1 to eat what they like and achieve good bloods. It is not straightforward.
There are always concerns amongst health professionals that aiming for 6 or below results in increased hypoglycaemic episodes that have there own side effects and drain on resources.
Many of your points have been discussed many times on the forum. In general, a lower carb approach tends towards better control for the average person, however it depends on the individual as to whether that is a balanced low carb or LCHF type approach.
Ultimately too much of anything is bad, and if you really want control, the only way to do it is through intensive management.
Fascinating thread. So relevant, going through the wringer health wise and emotionally at the present time for these very reasons (plus a few others).
Thanks for your input.What other method would you suggest is more reliable?
Your 3-point advice to newly diagnosed patients is good, but I think if it was given at a population level, a good proportion of patients would never go back to a doctor. Medical practice has to be more nuanced than an extreme black and white view. Sure, doctors could improve on their knowledge of carbs in diabetes, but there is such a thing as going from one extreme to another.
You didn't answer my question.Thanks for your input.
The 3 point plan wasn't meant as a literal guide, i:e it's an oversimplification, I was just trying to make a point.
I'll have to politely disagree with your assertion that "a good proportion of patients wouldn't come back" if presented with stark facts as per above.
I do agree however that a holistic, nuanced approach is an important element of primary care.
I am creating a post later regarding clinical guidelines for Diabetes management, I think you will find some of the data that I have managed to acquire, very Informative.