Low-Carb Health Risks

[ally5555]

graham -u are being a bit silly . I do go there as jo and tubs and others have become friends and they are sorely missed on here. What a silly comment. Dont worry I spy on you and that "other" forum !!!

How do you know how many pts he has seen - have you asked him - avg will not let me open his website at all.

Right I have decided for the next 2 months I am going to ask every pt have they low carbed and I will record if they are diabetic. I am finding that it has gone out of vogue - it was at its peak about 3-4 years ago - It may not be very scientific but maybe of interest.

You see I think that maybe low carbing is not as healthy as it sounds !

 

[sugarless sue]

If they are diabetic ,Ally,ask them if they have reduced their carbs at all.Not just low carbing but changed their eating habits to smaller portions of carbs.

 

[hanadr]

I a 62 year old human female don't think I have the same dietary requirements as a juvenile, male mouselet.
High Blood sugar is known to be dangerous, without the "ifs", "buts", Maybes" and "probably" and "possibly"
Mice left to live peaceful wild natural lives, will get much of their nutrition from Seeds and grains. Depriving them of these foods soon after weaning may well harm them.( it did :lol: )
Humans didn't start eating a mouse-like diet until very late in evolution. And I'm not starting now
Hana

 

[Aadrgon]

graham -u are being a bit silly . I do go there as jo and tubs and others have become friends and they are sorely missed on here. What a silly comment. Dont worry I spy on you and that "other" forum !!!

Since I assume Graham came across your name while reading another forum rather than because he has been stalking you across the web - why lie about using another forum since it is of no real significance where you post. :?:

 

[graham64]

Hi Ally,

graham -u are being a bit silly . I do go there as jo and tubs and others have become friends and they are sorely missed on here. What a silly comment. Dont worry I spy on you and that "other" forum !!!

Hang on a minute Ally was it not you that denied going on other forums, I think it was you that was being a bit silly. You can spy as much as you want on the Low carb diabetes forum it does not bother me hopefully you may learn something.

How do you know how many pts he has seen - have you asked him - avg will not let me open his website at all.

Dr Lutz as I stated in a previous post to you has seen over 10,000 patients. I also gave you a safe link to follow;

http://www.123people.com/ext/frm?ti=per ... wrt_id=110


Another link to extracts from his book Life Without Bread is a google page so you should be safe there as well.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Jo0n ... tz&f=false

You see I think that maybe low carbing is not as healthy as it sounds !

That is your opinion Ally, but a Dr. who has been honoured by Cambridge who's who for excellence in nutrition science, and was granted the freedom of the City of London, and having used a low carb diet to treat himself for over 50 years,would in my eyes be far more knowledgeable than you will ever be..

http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-r ... -29523.php

Love and hugs
Graham xx

 

[ally5555]

tbh - it was because I had a problem here a few months ago with a banned poster publishing my private details from a forum or they thought it was me- I post on the diabetes forum where jo and tubs post sometimes. I wasn't sure what graham was talking about because it all got a little nasty last time - hence the reason I made the comment. Hope that explains that!

Sue I intend too ask them but in the real world I find most new diabetics have cut out the sugary things before they see me !

 

[findave]

This mouse study is just the latest in a series of very cheap, small-scale 'research' from US universities , addressed mainly to the media, which are simply part of the anti-Atkins campaign of the last four years (the last one was 'low carb will kill your memory' a few months back.) They all get more media attention than far more important studies that invariably show that lower carb is preferable to low fat.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

As always all the usual suspects are being selective in what research they choose to quote and that which they choose to rubbish, its like handbags at dawn

Why cant you just see it for what it is, there may be a possible problem with high fat diets for people with cardiovascular problems. Thats all it means, possibly, maybe, you dont all have to rubbish the research just because it doesnt fit in with your current thinking.

Minds are like parachutes, they only work when there open Frank Zappa A wise man...

 

[Bluenosesol]

Folks,

just like to apply a little logic....diabetes diagnosis is a threat to ones quality of life and indeed one's life. People become avid lo-carb proponents not because they live in a particular part of the world or belong to a specific social class or club. They become such as a result of seeing their lives change for the better by personal experience. Consider this against the mass of ill advice emanating from the NHS and other trusted agencies, not to mention those who argue incessantly that our excellent improvements are no more than a smoke screen to our pending doom, then now you know why we in the "lo-carb works for us" fraternity always tend to react emotionally and fervently to those who would perceptively reduce us and our entitled opinions to the basket case.

PS, I love the argument and the banter regardless.....

Regards Steve.

 

[graham64]

I've also noticed an increase in plaque on th eteeth since lo-carbing. I'm (a little...) worried that this might also indicate plaque might be building up in my arteries... :cry:

Hi Patch/Blackadder,

I very much doubt that going low carb is responsible for the dental plaque, I have noticed the opposite as have others. The link examines the relationship between carbs and dental disease and points the finger at fermentable carbs. Which suggests to me that high carb is more of a problem than low carb in dental health.

Fermentable carbohydrates are not just sweets like cookies, doughnuts, cake and candy. They also include bananas and several tropical fruits, sticky fruits like raisins and other dried fruits, and starchy foods like potatoes, refined wheat flour, yams, rice, pasta, pretzels, bread, and corn.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090709170807.htm

Graham

 

[jopar]

If we are to dismiss Dr Rosenzweig conclusion due to using ‘Probably’ then Grahams link to Dr Lutz also has to be dismissed as supporting evidence for low carb is best theory…

I was surprised by Dr Lutz comment, that the hormone insulin is ‘Probably’ produced in the Islet cells… Now the problem I have with this statement, is reading the whole link that Graham provided, it gives a brief history of Dr Lutz medical training and background… Which says he was a qualified before the second world war and his book was written in the latter part of his career after the war, sometime in the 50’s or there after..

Seems though Paul langerhans discovered the Islet cells, hence the name Islets of Langerhans in 1869 and it was well established that these cells were responsible for the production of insulin even before Dr Lutz started his medical training, where does the ‘Probably’ come from??? It is and was a know fact that Dr Lutz would or should have been fully aware…

So If we dismiss this research…

Has any of the low carbers got any theory to what is going on with the low carb patients that vascular disease and heart attacks, even though they have a good set of lipid panel?

Where is this plaque coming from?

What causing it, as well if you low carbing, it’s dispels the theory that carbohydrates are to blame!

 

[hanadr]

Try reading this
http://stanford.wellsphere.com/weight-l ... etes/94841

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Try reading this
http://stanford.wellsphere.com/weight-l ... etes/94841

That link was a bit random, what does it have to do with arterial plaque and a high fat diet?

 

[graham64]

Hi again Jopar

If we are to dismiss Dr Rosenzweig conclusion due to using ‘Probably’ then Grahams link to Dr Lutz also has to be dismissed as supporting evidence for low carb is best theory…

If 50years working with over 10,000 human patients (in his book Life Without Bread you can see actual data from his medical files) amounts to theory in his book , what conclusions do you draw from a 12 week study on mutant ApoE mice. And Dr Lutz 96years of age along with Bernstein and others including from this forum manofkent are living testament to the efficacy of a Low Carb diet..

I was surprised by Dr Lutz comment, that the hormone insulin is ‘Probably’ produced in the Islet cells… Now the problem I have with this statement, is reading the whole link that Graham provided, it gives a brief history of Dr Lutz medical training and background… Which says he was a qualified before the second world war and his book was written in the latter part of his career after the war, sometime in the 50’s or there after..

Seems though Paul langerhans discovered the Islet cells, hence the name Islets of Langerhans in 1869 and it was well established that these cells were responsible for the production of insulin even before Dr Lutz started his medical training, where does the ‘Probably’ come from??? It is and was a know fact that Dr Lutz would or should have been fully aware…

The actual word Dr Lutz used In the section you refer was Apparently not Probably, a completely different word..

So If we dismiss this research…

Has any of the low carbers got any theory to what is going on with the low carb patients that vascular disease and heart attacks, even though they have a good set of lipid panel?

If you can supply us with more information about these patients. How many 1, 2, 100 ?, medical history prior to going low carb, how old were they, specific information on diet and medications, were they smokers etc. Without this information no one even the most eminent doctors could possibly theorise, Foo gave us no information regarding these patients..

You can look at the conclusions of the Nurses Study which again uses humans not mice..

Diets lower in carbohydrates and higher in protein and fat are not associated with an increased risk of coronary heart disease in women,” researchers conclude.

http://docnews.diabetesjournals.org/con ... /11.2.full

Where is this plaque coming from?

What causing it, as well if you low carbing, it’s dispels the theory that carbohydrates are to blame!

These are just two of many studies..

High carb foods put undue stress on our arteries

http://www.israel21c.org/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=63

In postmenopausal women with relatively low total fat intake, a greater saturated fat intake is associated with less progression of coronary atherosclerosis, whereas carbohydrate intake is associated with a greater progression.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... d=15531663

Graham xx

 

[lilibet]

The web is full of 'for' and 'against' reports for just about EVERYTHING and to be honest if you are seeking evidence for you own hypothesis or particular point of view then you will find it

What I took from the study( I agree with Jopar's post in that respect) is that if the typical measurements for lipids showed that the mice were healthy on paper, but still died from CV problems. Therefore there is a problem in how they measure OUR risk of CV or something else has gone on thats not yet known. If thats the case, then yes in my opinion is it something to get a bit concerned about

The sad fact however is that diabetics cant tolerate carbs. I would love to eat much as I did (lower fat, wholegrain etc) but I cant.Im a T1 on insulin and bread for toast aside, I dont eat many carbs. I do worry about the fibre aspect but try and eat lots of veg to compensate.

The misconception that T1's can dose adjust for carbs is true to an extent but the doses required to counteract the spikes you would get from pasta or a baked potato or whatever, would likely cause hypos about three hours after dinner.

As suggested by research (an if and maybe and probably) spikes are thought to be as damaging as persistant hyperglycemia

FWIW - my cholesterol has gone up since low carbing

 

[ally5555]

Lilbet - that was a great post.

Graham my laptop will not let me open Dr lutz website - I am curious is his data based on all his patients ie the 10,000 as I cannot find any data of his? Can you help?

Hana - that post was a bit random but in all honesty we would not have had that haul of medals from Bejiing without carbs. Athletes alos have higher protein and fat requirements than most people - they do not just eat carbs.

 

[graham64]

You will have to buy the books Ally the on line version is only extracts, due to copyright issues I'm not going to risk posting any part of it.

Graham

 

[ally5555]

thanks graham - found your link on the other site - I am not going to buy the book.

 

[hanadr]

I just read the extract of the Lutz book and it makes sense.

 

[MING]

:mrgreen: Ah but Steve, are you warm and furry and have nice tickly whiskers like mice ?? hmm??