Reactive Hypoglycaemia

[Brunneria]

That is brilliant!

Well done for going for it!

 

[freshlybrewed]

Good news @Wendolph

there shouldn't be a problem if you have a treat now and then every so often, but not a whole packet! That's why we experiment! To see what we can get away with. I love baked beans, I have done so many tests and experimented and I can manage about a dozen at one meal.

Lol I can imagine you counting them one by one.
I agree you can experiment, for example if I have extra low carb all day then at meal time I can splash out on a sauce or something nice like that.

 

[Erin85]

Wow. Diagnosed t1 8.5months ago and having a look around the forum and found this post. I had NO IDEA RH even existed. I didn't understand that those who do not inject insulin can also experience lows and hypo's! I'm really sorry to be so ignorant, but do they know what causes RH? I obv know the reasons behind t1 and t2 diabetes, but unsure of the reasons behind RH? Is it your pancreas doing "too good" a job when you are eating carbs and miscalculating how much insulin you need? I have to admit, I feel really selfish for sometimes feeling **** about having t1 when I can use insulin to correct my condition. Hats off to every single one of you and full support to you x x

 

[Brunneria]

Wow. Diagnosed t1 8.5months ago and having a look around the forum and found this post. I had NO IDEA RH even existed. I didn't understand that those who do not inject insulin can also experience lows and hypo's! I'm really sorry to be so ignorant, but do they know what causes RH? I obv know the reasons behind t1 and t2 diabetes, but unsure of the reasons behind RH? Is it your pancreas doing "too good" a job when you are eating carbs and miscalculating how much insulin you need? I have to admit, I feel really selfish for sometimes feeling **** about having t1 when I can use insulin to correct my condition. Hats off to every single one of you and full support to you x x

That is such a lovely post. Thank you!

As for the cause of RH, i think there are several.
Women's monthly hormones sometimes cause it in otherwise 'normal' people.
Hormone issues are central.
Then there is excessive insulin production, not switched off by glucagon from the pancreas' alpha cells. Whether the glucagon is late, or insufficient, and the insulin takes the bg too low.

But maybe @nosher8355 can answer better. I'm not as up on this as he is.

There are different types of RH, including ones that affect children, so it is complex.

 

[Lamont D]

Wow. Diagnosed t1 8.5months ago and having a look around the forum and found this post. I had NO IDEA RH even existed. I didn't understand that those who do not inject insulin can also experience lows and hypo's! I'm really sorry to be so ignorant, but do they know what causes RH? I obv know the reasons behind t1 and t2 diabetes, but unsure of the reasons behind RH? Is it your pancreas doing "too good" a job when you are eating carbs and miscalculating how much insulin you need? I have to admit, I feel really selfish for sometimes feeling **** about having t1 when I can use insulin to correct my condition. Hats off to every single one of you and full support to you x x

Quick reply is yes!
It is like so many other conditions and I believe that we should be under the diabetes umbrella of conditions because it is a endocrine hormone imbalance.
The reason it isn't is because of our normal fasting and hba1c levels.
Even though diabetics achieve normal levels as well.
Causes there are many as there are many types.
It can be caused by trauma, an operation, other diseases, or naturally like myself.
I suppose that diet or eating habits could be in there as well.
One of the new thoughts coming out of the state's is because of carb overloading is causing athletes and sportsmen and women to get the condition.
The reason for its anonymity, is because it is rare and GPs aren't trained to recognise the symptoms. It is difficult to diagnose and tests are used to discount other conditions before confirmation is given.
I have posted many times that I believe that there are more RH ers out that have been diagnosed as T2! Simply because if a hypoglycaemic eats carbs as they are told to, it disguises the condition because of the fluctuating blood glucose levels.
Even when you describe the condition to a health care provider, they will still say you are diabetic!

 

[Wendolph]

@nosher8355 and anyone else in the know.
My appointment request has come through already! Gloucester is my closest however it is offering me other choices: South Bristol-diabetes nurse led, southmead-diabetes, Bristol royal- diabetic medicine, Chippenham -general diabetes, Hereford -general diabetic management and medicine, Cheltenham -general diabetic consultant led, Tewkesbury -general diabetic consultant led or Gloucester general diabetic consultant led.
Does it matter which one or have you heard good things about any of these?
Thanks

 

[Lamont D]

@nosher8355 and anyone else in the know.
My appointment request has come through already! Gloucester is my closest however it is offering me other choices: South Bristol-diabetes nurse led, southmead-diabetes, Bristol royal- diabetic medicine, Chippenham -general diabetes, Hereford -general diabetic management and medicine, Cheltenham -general diabetic consultant led, Tewkesbury -general diabetic consultant led or Gloucester general diabetic consultant led.
Does it matter which one or have you heard good things about any of these?
Thanks

Sorry, no!
But I would have a look at the consultant led webpages to see what types they specialize.

 

[Wendolph]

Thats a good idea @nosher8355 thank you.

 

[Brunneria]

Never heard anything about them, but you might find it worth checking if any of them are teaching hospitals. That can make a good difference.

@nosher8355 may have a suggestion...

Oops - the posts clashed!

 

[Lamont D]

It's good that they are moving quickly, hopefully you won't have to wait for an appointment.

 

[Wendolph]

Thanks @Brunneria I'll do some research tonight. @nosher8355 that was a quick response, hope i can book quickly.
I had a weird one yesterday. In the morning i had a coffee, 1 slice of toast and a nectarine. 2 hours into work i feel my head swaying. It got better.
4.6 after work so had some grapes while cooking dinner, an hour later I ate salmon, brocolli, asparagus, baby corn. An hour later my blood was 4.9 another hour 4.4 then I forgot as i emptied my daughters lunchbox and ate 1 hula hoop. 1 not a bag at the end of that hour my blood was 5.3.
Good thing i haven't hypo'd but I start feeling the spin at 4.5 so its annoying. It seems sometimes my body kicks in and helps itself but not others. It's going to take a long time to figure this out.

 

[Lamont D]

Thanks @Brunneria I'll do some research tonight. @nosher8355 that was a quick response, hope i can book quickly.
I had a weird one yesterday. In the morning i had a coffee, 1 slice of toast and a nectarine. 2 hours into work i feel my head swaying. It got better.
4.6 after work so had some grapes while cooking dinner, an hour later I ate salmon, brocolli, asparagus, baby corn. An hour later my blood was 4.9 another hour 4.4 then I forgot as i emptied my daughters lunchbox and ate 1 hula hoop. 1 not a bag at the end of that hour my blood was 5.3.
Good thing i haven't hypo'd but I start feeling the spin at 4.5 so its annoying. It seems sometimes my body kicks in and helps itself but not others. It's going to take a long time to figure this out.

It will, I believe that the endocrinologist will order tests to determine your condition.
It is now good that you are aware of what the baddies can do to you!
Only time, testing and experimentation will give you the knowledge.
Keep up the good work, (except the hula hoop!)

 

[Lamont D]

Hi, to all RH ers.

There is a link in my signature box below.
For my blog on RH itself.
I thought it was about time,
If any comments or issues please use the necessary reply function on the blog and I will alter.
(If it's makes sense and relative)
It is a basic information blog and I don't want to make it to scientific, so that a newbie can understand it!

Many thanks to all RH ers, who have helped and assisted me and its good belonging to our unique club. I believe we could be up to thirty members known to have RH or waiting to be diagnosed.

 

[Erin85]

Thanks for the info Brunneria and nosher8355! It sounds like the exact opposite of t1 - My bg levels go high after I eat carbs and RH BG levels drop after eating carbs? I still can't quite believe RH exists - have mentioned it to a few people in the last few days and will be doing some of my own research to find out more about it. No harm in having more knowledge and spreading awareness eh? x x

 

[Lamont D]

Thanks for the info Brunneria and nosher8355! It sounds like the exact opposite of t1 - My bg levels go high after I eat carbs and RH BG levels drop after eating carbs? I still can't quite believe RH exists - have mentioned it to a few people in the last few days and will be doing some of my own research to find out more about it. No harm in having more knowledge and spreading awareness eh? x x

T1 & T2 are about insulin resistance.
RH is about insulin over production.
In that respect, we are opposites.
But they are both endocrine conditions.
I have posted a new blog, there's a link below.

 

[freshlybrewed]

It's going to take a long time to figure this out.

Once you're on the right path then things will fall into place quicker than you expect, to be prepared for information overload.

My bg levels go high after I eat carbs and RH BG levels drop after eating carbs?

I can't speak for everyone but in my case (before I was on LCHF) it's my BG levels go high after eating carbs +2hrs, but it's what I feel like afterwards at +4hrs is what's makes me different and RH. At 5.2mmol/l I'd start feeling symptoms of lowering BG, at 4.7mmol/l I'd feel like hypo is around the corner, by the time it gets to 4.2mmol/l I'm taking action to prevent further unpleasant discomfort. If I didn't then it would continue to fall, and by 3.5mmol/l I'd be seriously unhappy person without carbs right now.

Bare in mind a typical person wouldn't be bothered about 4.0mmol/l BG. So there is an issue of perception or an offset of about +1 to +2 mmol/l.

To counteract these unpleasant symptoms, I'd stuff my face with carbs all the time, which in turn lead to obesity, and now diagnosis of T2. I guess other RHers have arrived at being T2 as well via this problem. In fact, going along with what @nosher8355 says about this condition being misdiagnosed and mistreated. I was told if drinking a can of soda helps then by all means do so!! I've now learned that is not the case it only makes things worse.

The advice of eating modified carb diet was wrong. They should have put me onto LCHF straight away and taught me all about my sensitivity? to carbs. Instead the didn't know anything about it and were just guessing.

 

[Lamont D]

Once you're on the right path then things will fall into place quicker than you expect, to be prepared for information overload.



I can't speak for everyone but in my case (before I was on LCHF) it's my BG levels go high after eating carbs +2hrs, but it's what I feel like afterwards at +4hrs is what's makes me different and RH. At 5.2mmol/l I'd start feeling symptoms of lowering BG, at 4.7mmol/l I'd feel like hypo is around the corner, by the time it gets to 4.2mmol/l I'm taking action to prevent further unpleasant discomfort. If I didn't then it would continue to fall, and by 3.5mmol/l I'd be seriously unhappy person without carbs right now.

Bare in mind a typical person wouldn't be bothered about 4.0mmol/l BG. So there is an issue of perception or an offset of about +1 to +2 mmol/l.

To counteract these unpleasant symptoms, I'd stuff my face with carbs all the time, which in turn lead to obesity, and now diagnosis of T2. I guess other RHers have arrived at being T2 as well via this problem. In fact, going along with what @nosher8355 says about this condition being misdiagnosed and mistreated. I was told if drinking a can of soda helps then by all means do so!! I've now learned that is not the case it only makes things worse.

The advice of eating modified carb diet was wrong. They should have put me onto LCHF straight away and taught me all about my sensitivity? to carbs. Instead the didn't know anything about it and were just guessing.

Good post. I agree with our sensitivity as we are going into hypo and around the 4 mark you can feel it, as I have with going above 7or 8 when I eat too much, still, low carbs, but when I eat too much protein and salad and my quick spike (well it's a high for me!) Around 7 is when I feel it after around the half hour mark.
I think the more you break down our 'reactive' part to what or amount we eat, it becomes clear the best way to tackle our daily lives. Little and often.
It is a huge pain but necessary.
Except for Brunneria, who can get by with only eating three meals a day, I wish!
I think it makes meal planning so important.
I travelled to footie yesterday from early morning to late evening, and all I did was top up all day with my food. Little bits every hour. It worked and I had a great day out.

I've said many times before through this thread that you don't need a sugary/ glucose type treatment for a low, just a plain biscuit which has a carb count of about three grammes of carbs, which will slowly bring you out with tea or coffee, then a low carb meal shortly after.
The rebound effect will make you feel worse!

You will get used to the lifestyle, but it is better to be in control and eat regularly throughout the day, and the extra energy and clear headiness, along with being healthy and fit, is absolutely brilliant.

 

[Erin85]

T1 & T2 are about insulin resistance.
RH is about insulin over production.
In that respect, we are opposites.
But they are both endocrine conditions.
I have posted a new blog, there's a link below.

I totally agree that it is an endocrine condition, and should be recognised as such. I don't know how many have RH (especially as it may not be diagnosed, or misdiagnosed), but it would make sense for endocrinologists and diabetes specialists to be trained on RH. Not only to give a correct diagnosis, but also to help RHers avoid developing t2 (due to incorrect information on how to treat hypos), and to allow people to take control of their condition and be able to live without a fear of hypos and the following sugar spikes.

I don't considerate myself to be insulin resistant, in fact I think I am rather the opposite! It seems that I am very sensitive to insulin, but just don't produce enough of my own. And eventually my antibodies will kill the remaining beta cells and I will have no natural insulin production. However, I do expect to still be sensitive to any insulin I inject, which has so far made exercise a total nightmare!

Thanks for the link to your blog, I will have a look at my next break

 

[reverseosmosis]

How familiar are you with the process of the hypo as it happens in your body?

The bg drops, we loose mental acuity, concentration, reaction time, etc.
But our own body recognises the low.
And as a response, releases a whole cocktail of stress hormones, including adrenalin (causes the shakes, jitters, etc) which in turn triggers the liver to release glucose into the bloodstream. Which raises bg. Which ends the hypo.

So, by the time you get the panicky jitters, your own body has already stepped in to resolve the situation. Stuffing gluco tabs may raise the bg higher, and a bit faster, but the RH hypo was sorting itself out before you even reached for the tablets.

Of course, this assumes there is glucose waiting in the liver, and it assumes that your hormone signalling is functioning. But if you only get rare hypos, then i think those are pretty safe assumptions.

I am not too familiar with the process of hypos. Only recently did I understand that hypos are caused by the composition of the previous meal. I thought it had to do with not eating enough and not frequently enough. How does one make sure there is enough glucose waiting in the liver?

 

[Lamont D]

I am very aware of the closeness of having a hypo. I have several individual indicators of it happening.
That, therein lies the problem, our 'reactive' part of digestion is that our glucose is used to quickly, so that more insulin is released.
We can't really take more glucose because of the bounce effect as this would produce a quick hyper, then our blood glucose levels would yo yo up and down, creating the horror hell of symptoms.
Low carbing is the only answer, with eating little and often, throughout the day. Just topping up on very small meals.
I have not had a hypo since my last OGTT. It was not nice!
I would rather live where I am,
And as a response, releases a whole cocktail of stress hormones, including adrenalin (causes the shakes, jitters, etc) which in turn triggers the liver to release glucose into the bloodstream. Which raises bg. Which ends the hypo.

So, by the time you get the panicky jitters, your own body has already stepped in to resolve the situation. Stuffing gluco tabs may raise the bg higher, and a bit faster, but the RH hypo was sorting itself out before you even reached for the

But this is where our imbalance goes against that theory, our liver doesn't sort it out!