Who is deleting / editing Posts ??

[ButtterflyLady]

Just because a moderator is a volunteer does not guarantee that person is unbiased or a good moderator.

True, but usually if a moderator is biased or not very good at it, then the owner tells them to improve or removes them. I think if people have concerns about a mod they should PM the admin about it. Sometimes a moderation decision might be a bit off, but I tend to just shrug and move on, because I look at the bigger picture. It's a hard job, moderating, and often they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They can never please everyone.

 

[satindoll]

True, but usually if a moderator is biased or not very good at it, then the owner tells them to improve or removes them. I think if people have concerns about a mod they should PM the admin about it. Sometimes a moderation decision might be a bit off, but I tend to just shrug and move on, because I look at the bigger picture. It's a hard job, moderating, and often they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They can never please everyone.

I disagree with you here on one point, I doubt the owner is at all interested in who is or is not a moderator or how good a job they are doing just so long as the footfall doesn't drop.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I disagree with you here on one point, I doubt the owner is at all interested in who is or is not a moderator or how good a job they are doing just so long as the footfall doesn't drop.

If that's the case, then they are lucky things are going so well, aren't they

 

[AndBreathe]

It is my inclination that this forum is a very small cog in the site owner's business portfolio. Even if his only venture, I doubt he has time for the granularity of whether a moderation decision was right or wrong; especially when one takes into account context.

In my experience most people try very had, in a moderation or similar role, to be balanced and impartial, but the very nature of human nature means that is impossible 100% of the time. With the best guidelines and/or rules there are almost always inconsistencies from time to time.

People are significantly flawed. Even me.

 

[Administrator]

@Administrator - If I could just add that we have rather been here before, with a significant proportion of what we were promised simply not delivered, and I was personally told off for asking for progress updates.

Secondly, I also believe that the Mod have to apply a certain amount of discretion when it comes to deleting and editing. Sor example, recently a poster on the fasting blood scores thread posted he had had a particularly unpleasant hyper to hypo after eating pasta. I noted it (the hypo) was quite a regular thing and asked him (as I couldn't recall if he had said what he had eaten before) if his hypos were just after pasta or random. I was trying to help the guy who seems distressed by his predicament.

My post was deleted and I was told the thread was for posting blood scores, nothing else. Surely this forum is about helping people? Yes, we can go to PM, but if there is not helpful interactions in the open forum then new readers simply won't stick around because the forum will look like there are lots of problems being posted, but no help forthcoming.

(Leaving aside, not to mention the guy I was responding to just missed out on any ideas I might have had.)

OK, I was grumpy at being edited for trying to help someone, but you get the drift?

Yep, totally get the drift. I've just posted in the mods forum the post about editing/deleting threads. We should have that discussed and implemented shortly (i.e. 24-48 hours).

Like I said that's a tough decision. Common sense needs to prevail, it would never be right for a few people to always takeover threads completely with chit chat. That's annoying for everyone. I have seen this happen in the past and the mods were right to stop it. A couple of years ago the chit chat and joking around used to happen when it was clear that the thread had finished it's natural course. Is that OK or not?

At the other extreme, one time I and one other person had been answering a thread, trying to help the OP. We then started discussing things outside of the topic, but still with the OP's problem in mind. These later posts were put onto another thread, while in fact they were simply a good thought progression within the original question. I tagged the OP to the new thread because I considered our deliberations on the subject might have been relevant to him. On this occasion it was a shame to split the later posts from the original thread because although they were a digression they were still relevant.

Maybe we need thread etiquette guidance rather than rules as such in this area? I think some don't realise they are derailing threads and then they are hurt when posts are deleted. It would be a whole lot better if we all thought of the OP and others rather than relying on the mods to police this particular thing. If the OP isn't joining in anymore, then that's probably a sign to get right back on topic. We should be sensitive enough to realise it. There are plenty of chatty threads already and there's PM's too. What do you and others think? Was nosher's witty post asking me, a friend, if I'm back now, OK here or not? I always like it when others who have been away for a bit are greeted like this. I like the balance of informal/formal interaction. It's not about me though, it's about all of the members.

It would be good for others to say what they feel on the issue of off topic/chatty posts, because that would in turn help the mods with their decision on this sort of thing in the future. Then we will all be happy

Agreed - chit-chat should be allowed to continue. (i.e. it's OK!) And mods can perhaps ask to start new threads if it continues to digress. Agree about the thought progression too - context is very useful!

Forum etiquette guidance is a great idea. For example, the post asking whether you're back is appropriate. It's what we're here for - to be here for one another.

The only element left is the discretion that is used by moderators to edit/delete posts.

So, for the record, this is what we're discussing with the other mods in terms of implementation:

Editing posts

When editing a post, please add 'Edited by mod / reason: XXX'
- Please add 'Edited by mod' to the post (moderator name is not required) to let everyone know the post has been edited.
- Please leave a reason if appropriate. If this is not appropriate for public view, please specify the reason as 'NA'

Deleting posts

When deleting a post, please add a post 'A post in this thread was deleted / reason: XXX'
- Again, if it is not appropriate to share the reason, please leave 'NA'.

Off-topic posts within a thread

- Off-topic posts within a thread are permitted. Please use discretion to suggest whether a new forum thread should be made. If the OP would prefer a post to be removed due to moving off-topic, posts can be removed.

Reasons:
Unsuitable (i.e. not appropriate)
Dangerous medical information (e.g. what happened with the threads linked to by OP)
Medical advice by unqualified person
Thread derailing
Offensive
Refers to a deleted post

 

[Administrator]

It is my inclination that this forum is a very small cog in the site owner's business portfolio. Even if his only venture, I doubt he has time for the granularity of whether a moderation decision was right or wrong; especially when one takes into account context.

In my experience most people try very had, in a moderation or similar role, to be balanced and impartial, but the very nature of human nature means that is impossible 100% of the time. With the best guidelines and/or rules there are almost always inconsistencies from time to time.

People are significantly flawed. Even me.

Not quite sure what was meant by this - but it's not correct. DCUK is singlehandedly helping to change health outcomes and changing the concept of digital health. The DCUK forum is influencing change in an area where RCTs are king so the concept of bridging the gap between RCTs and a mass of information/data is the future of healthcare, and that's what the DCUK forum is doing - influencing health outcomes positively. The Hypo Program is a great example - after 6 months of the program, the number of hospitalisations reduce by 68%. Which is amazing and something we're proud of. We're also working on a lot of education at the moment.

And yes, there's always going to be inconsistencies - but posts such as these help to iron those out.

Re: mods - we don't police the mods decisions but we can see a log and it is checked regularly. If there are ever any concerns, a quick PM to Admin or @Giverny would be appropriate and we'd happily share the reason.

 

[AndBreathe]

Not quite sure what was meant by this - but it's certainly incorrect. DCUK is singlehandedly helping to change health outcomes and changing the concept of digital health. The DCUK forum is influencing change in an area where RCTs are king so the concept of bridging the gap between RCTs and a mass of information/data is the future of healthcare, and that's what the DCUK forum is doing - influencing health outcomes positively. The Hypo Program is a great example - after 6 months of the program, the number of hospitalisations reduce by 68%. Which is amazing and something we're proud of. We're also working on a lot of education at the moment.

And yes, there's always going to be inconsistencies - but posts such as these help to iron those out.

What I meant in my post was that it is unlikely the site owner is interested in exactly what is said to whom in every thread about every thing. If he has time for the level of granularity and micro-management I would be astonished, and might make me question whether that would be the best use of an entrepreneur's time.

But of course, these are my personal views, influenced on my professional,business and personal lives. Maybe I have become too used to working with large enterprises.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

What I meant in my post was that it is unlikely the site owner is interested in exactly what is said to whom in every thread about every thing. If he has time for the level of granularity and micro-management I would be astonished, and might make me question whether that would be the best use of an entrepreneur's time.

But of course, these are my personal views, influenced on my professional,business and personal lives. Maybe I have become too used to working with large enterprises.

I wasn't implying that the site owner would be personally involved in the forum, just that websites have an owner, and usually the owner delegates forum management to an employed or voluntary admin, who manages moderation.

I just think, in general, if it ain't broke, it doesn't need fixing. But it's good to have open discussions about things and I'm liking this thread for that.

 

[Administrator]

Today's discussions have been really useful. I've posted the update above to the mods and they seem to be fine with it (mods aren't keen on sharing the reporter's username either).

We'll be updating the forum rules in the next couple of days.

The only thing that is left is more of an etiquette to forum threads and what is off-topic/not off-topic, but we'll leave that until tomorrow

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Not quite sure what was meant by this - but it's not correct. DCUK is singlehandedly helping to change health outcomes and changing the concept of digital health. The DCUK forum is influencing change in an area where RCTs are king so the concept of bridging the gap between RCTs and a mass of information/data is the future of healthcare, and that's what the DCUK forum is doing - influencing health outcomes positively. The Hypo Program is a great example - after 6 months of the program, the number of hospitalisations reduce by 68%. Which is amazing and something we're proud of. We're also working on a lot of education at the moment.

And yes, there's always going to be inconsistencies - but posts such as these help to iron those out.

Re: mods - we don't police the mods decisions but we can see a log and it is checked regularly. If there are ever any concerns, a quick PM to Admin or @Giverny would be appropriate and we'd happily share the reason.

I'm SO grateful for DCUK setting up this website and forum, and there are no doubt many others who feel the same way. I think ultimately RCTs are needed to change healthcare policy and practice, but while we wait for the body of evidence to increase and improve, we can help each other through the forum.

 

[AndBreathe]

I wasn't implying that the site owner would be personally involved in the forum, just that websites have an owner, and usually the owner delegates forum management to an employed or voluntary admin, who manages moderation.

I just think, in general, if it ain't broke, it doesn't need fixing. But it's good to have open discussions about things and I'm liking this thread for that.

I don't think anyone is saying everything is broken. I don't think anyone, with the exception of perhaps yourself, is talking binary here. My interpretation of the core dialogue of this thread was talking about change for improvement. I wouldn't define improvement in a binary manner.

Never changing anything leads to stagnancy, apathy, morass and often expiry. Any successful environment whether personal, pleasurable or business needs constant change.

Over time, many of us have bemoaned certain or some posters' leaving, but in reality a forum has a bit of a revolving door, with those who have achieved their personal objectives, or got bored, or have had disagreements, or been distracted by life, leave. At the same time new people join. This forum thrives, not in some small part, because of it's contributors and their goodwill, but also due to the unfortunate diabetes epidemic we are all experiencing. There was a forum long before me, and the forum will exist long after you and I have moved on with our lives. That an appetite for change appears to exist is healthy in my view.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I don't think anyone is saying everything is broken. I don't think anyone, with the exception of perhaps yourself, is talking binary here. My interpretation of the core dialogue of this thread was talking about change for improvement. I wouldn't define improvement in a binary manner.

Never changing anything leads to stagnancy, apathy, morass and often expiry. Any successful environment whether personal, pleasurable or business needs constant change.

Over time, many of us have bemoaned certain or some posters' leaving, but in reality a forum has a bit of a revolving door, with those who have achieved their personal objectives, or got bored, or have had disagreements, or been distracted by life, leave. At the same time new people join. This forum thrives, not in some small part, because of it's contributors and their goodwill, but also due to the unfortunate diabetes epidemic we are all experiencing. There was a forum long before me, and the forum will exist long after you and I have moved on with our lives. That an appetite for change appears to exist is healthy in my view.

I'm not talking in binary terms.

 

[emptyplate]

Re: mods - we don't police the mods decisions but we can see a log and it is checked regularly. If there are ever any concerns, a quick PM to Admin or @Giverny would be appropriate and we'd happily share the reason.

Shame that didn't happen for my PMs - I was pretty much stonewalled!
I'm hoping the discussion on this thread is a sign that lessons have been learnt and the future will be better for it.

That typed I've seen this kind of discussion before and that bore little fruit.

I'm ever hopeful for the future of the forum. I feel it's too late for me though.

 

[Brunneria]

Shame that didn't happen for my PMs - I was pretty much stonewalled!
I'm hoping the discussion on this thread is a sign that lessons have been learnt and the future will be better for it.

That typed I've seen this kind of discussion before and that bore little fruit.

I'm ever hopeful for the future of the forum. I feel it's too late for me though.

I think many of us have been where you are, @nomistheman
There have been times when the only reason I have kept coming back is because I know how much difference we can make to a few newly diagnosed.

The unexplained, sometimes arbitrary post edits and deletions have not helped. Although there seem to have been fewer of them in the last couple of months.

 

[Robinredbreast]

Shame that didn't happen for my PMs - I was pretty much stonewalled!
I'm hoping the discussion on this thread is a sign that lessons have been learnt and the future will be better for it.

That typed I've seen this kind of discussion before and that bore little fruit.

I'm ever hopeful for the future of the forum. I feel it's too late for me though.

Stonewalling can be a destructive, uncomfortable and a hurtful silence.

 

[emptyplate]

I think many of us have been where you are, @nomistheman
There have been times when the only reason I have kept coming back is because I know how much difference we can make to a few newly diagnosed.

The unexplained, sometimes arbitrary post edits and deletions have not helped. Although there seem to have been fewer of them in the last couple of months.

I know there are many that have had the same or similar experiences.

Like I typed, there have been similar threads to this one in the past that changed very little. I truly hope that this one is not history repeating itself.

Sometimes it's a case of actions speak louder than words.

I'm all for moving forward positively. To do that we have to learn from the past.

I've reflected (for quite some time) on what happened and made my decision regarding my activity on this forum.

Thanks for your thoughts @Brunneria

 

[Hiitsme]

I am so thankful to see this thread as I thought it was just me who was concerned about posts disappearing. A few months ago some of mine disappeared. I know a mod had replied to one of my posts and when I had thought about it I tried to find the thread so I could reply to the thread and the whole thread had gone. I am scared to say anything on the fasting reading thread except put my reading down. I know I can't reply there to any questions people ask which I think is a shame although I understand the need to keep on topic, It was the original fasting thread that had been so helpful to me as I started to learn about diabetes and received so much help from others.

 

[emptyplate]

Stonewalling can be a destructive, uncomfortable and a hurtful silence.

Absolutely! For me, it was saddening and disappointing.

 

[zand]

This is where I think the mods need guidance and training. I know there's a few that will be reading this thread who don't agree. I have usually had a reply, but on the odd occasion I haven't had one it really hurt and took my confidence away. Maybe the mods don't want to get into a long dialogue with us, but a short reply would be good and courteous too. It would also stop us making the same mistake again and maybe getting a warning for it.

When there is no reply it can look like the mods are biased.

Talking of bias - something I would like to see is for all of us to move on from the past. I have only been here for 2 years. I understand that before then there was some animosity between certain groups. I think some of the modding now leans towards the bias that grew back then. I would like to see slates wiped clean and to look at things with fresh eyes starting now. There are a handful of posters who appear to me to enter threads just to goad those who follow a certain type of diet. To me they seem to be a protected species simply because they don't follow the same diet that the majority of the more vocal posters follow. I would like to see this practice stopped now and everyone to be treated fairly. These posters constantly say that they have a right to follow whatever diet they choose. Correct. But so do I and those who follow the same one as me. I sometimes think that those who choose to follow the same diet as me are treated more harshly than certain others simply because there are so many of us. Well there are so many of us because the diet works for us! We each have the right to talk about what has helped us, don't we?

I suppose what I'm saying is we all deserve the same respect. Often the post that started a quarrel is left on a thread, whilst those who respond are deleted. To me this is the main cause of the 'us and them' mentality that we want to avoid.

 

[Brunneria]

I need to jump in.

I agree with much of what is being said this morning.
BUT
In the past we have had threads like this - careful, considered, helpful threads, where mods/admin/Giverny have been engaged and willing to make changes.

Then people have started to mention old wounds, old scars, old resentments, and the thread has been violently derailed and locked.

And all that potential improvement was been blocked.

PLEASE let us not do that here.

This thread is about a new, transparent, way of handling thread deletions.
Let's look FORWARDS, not back.