What improvements can be made in diabetes care by nurses on a surgical ward?

Type1insuliner

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Hi there. I'm a type 1 diabetic doing a diabetes course at uni, and have a 4000 word essay to do on "what improvements can be made in diabetes care

I thought I would ask the experts out there....you guys! As I have brain fog and cant get started!

Any ideas or help will be much appreciated
 
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Lamont D

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I do not have diabetes
I am not diabetic!
But I have had stays in hospital wards including the diabetic ward.
The first thing that I would look at is not the nurses, it is the thought process that goes into the guidelines that nurses follow.
In my ward, diabetics were given food and drinks that in no other way of describing as pouring petrol on a fire!
Why give someone whose blood glucose levels that are high more 'fuel' to go higher (hyper).

There are a lot of diabetics on here that wouldn't touch food that are supposedly diabetic in a hospital.
I've seen diabetics, fed for breakfast, cereals, with sugar on! With concentrated Orange to drink!
For lunch, mashed potato and gravy, with a low fat fruit yoghurt!
For tea, pasta and rice! A slice of cake and a bottle of lucozade on the table alongside a bottle of Orange juice for dilution.
For supper, white toast with spread on!

It goes on. It's unbelievable, that patients wishes are disregarded as to what is best for them!
 
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Daibell

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Hi. Possibly to avoid using the Sliding Scale stuff as it usually isn't necessary (there will be exceptions) and can and has been mis-managed based on forum reports causing hypos. Paitents should be allowed to manage their own insulin but the nurses should do blood tests whever they feel it's right to do so and discuss any problems with the patient.
 
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xAoifex

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I replied on the other thread but I'll cut n paste it here to!
It all depends on your focus! You could talk about variable rate insulin infusions, tight gylcaemic control post op (risks of hypo, hyper glycaemia, effects on wound healing) the self management of people with diabetes pre and post operatively, the effect of pre and post op fasting on blood glucose control. These are just a few suggestions, there really are many many options! (I'm a B7 nurse with post reg diabetes qualification)
 
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Emilyprice

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Importance of background insulin..some nurses think if you're sick you don't need it
 

ButtterflyLady

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CarbsRok

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Make menus diabetes friendly with carb count for meals being provided on the menu. Most type 1's need to inject or bolus 20 - 30 mins before they eat so being forewarned about the likely carb count of the meal would be more than helpful.
 
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Celeriac

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I'm T2 but when I was in hospital for 8 days with e.coli 0157 I experienced some bullying.

1. Don't assume, when you don't know the patient and don't have his/her full medical history, that you know how s/he developed T2DM and assume that it was by eating cakes and puddings and especially don't tell them that.
2. Don't start lecturing them about eating starchy carbohydrates and stirring their food, telling them that they aren't eating enough carbs, especially not in front of their visitors who are bringing food in - and especially not when you know doctors treating the patient have had food poisoning from the hospital food !!!
3. Explain why you want to give the patient a drug, especially if giving the patient the choice not to have it. Tell them what a sliding scale is and why the doctor wants them to have it and if they aren't on insulin, don't assume they know what a brand name is and will be happy to have it without explanation.
4. BG test as appropriate. Doing it every 2 hrs might well be advisable after surgery but it's surely overkill every 2 hrs night and day for 8 days when the patient is improving. Use the lancet on the sides of fingers not the pads and don't keep using the same finger.
5. If at all possible let the patient manage his or her meds if any, at least to the point of taking them when they usually do, to try to keep their routine and therefore more stable BG.
6. Realise that patients get anxious in hospital, especially when their routine is disrupted and they feel poorly and just because they are on a ward, doesn't mean that diabetes put them there.
7. No HCP should go near someone with diabetes if they don't know the difference between nutritional ketosis and DKA

Gowever, massive Brownie points Lizzie for asking the question !! X
 
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ButtterflyLady

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I'm T2 but when I was in hospital for 8 days with e.coli 0157 I experienced some bullying.

1. Don't assume, when you don't know the patient and don't have his/her full medical history, that you know how s/he developed T2DM and assume that it was by eating cakes and puddings and especially don't tell them that.
2. Don't start lecturing them about eating starchy carbohydrates and stirring their food, telling them that they aren't eating enough carbs, especially not in front of their visitors who are bringing food in - and especially not when you know doctors treating the patient have had food poisoning from the hospital food !!!
3. Explain why you want to give the patient a drug, especially if giving the patient the choice not to have it. Tell them what a sliding scale is and why the doctor wants them to have it and if they aren't on insulin, don't assume they know what a brand name is and will be happy to have it without explanation.
4. BG test as appropriate. Doing it every 2 hrs might well be advisable after surgery but it's surely overkill every 2 hrs night and day for 8 days when the patient is improving. Use the lancet on the sides of fingers not the pads and don't keep using the same finger.
5. If at all possible let the patient manage his or her meds if any, at least to the point of taking them when they usually do, to try to keep their routine and therefore more stable BG.
6. Realise that patients get anxious in hospital, especially when their routine is disrupted and they feel poorly and just because they are on a ward, doesn't mean that diabetes put them there.
7. No HCP should go near someone with diabetes if they don't know the difference between nutritional ketosis and DKA

Gowever, massive Brownie points Lizzie for asking the question !! X
Sounds like an official complaint is warranted. I've had similar things happen to me while in hospital.
 
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noblehead

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Speaking as a type 1 I'd like to see CGM's used more in surgical wards.
 
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Hi, foremost No 1, is to the listen, listen and listen again to the patient and not to treat them as half wits. If diabetes management is needed for a patients, get the DSN 's in to go over the patients regime with them.
I know all this from recent experience. I would not go along with the consultant and doctor who said I should take just 1 1/2 units of Insulin, when my BS was 17, with a ripe pear for breakfast that was at least 15 to 20 carbs. I would not back down even when they upped it to 2 units, I said I was taking 3 as and if it caused them problems I would discharge myself immediately. They agreed with the 3 units and before lunch my BS was 14.3. So I got it down to an acceptable level, not them.
A far greater range of foods that are not loaded up with carbs and thought for patients with allergies to foods and Coeliac disease.
Best wishes
 
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numan43

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I was in hospital over christmas last year for a month with a stroke and all the nurses were fabulous, its not down to them what patients are fed, they go with what is written on boards above the beds eg allowed solids or feeding drips etc and I found them all very attentive. although they tested my blood 8 or so times a day the food I was given was just as everyone on ward was given, carbs galore but again as i said not the nurses choice.
 

donnellysdogs

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I'm quite shocked myself from my impending stay in hospital.

I'm in a separate unit having surgery and it is very clear that none of the nurses really have a clue about T1.

I've gone from being told, no morning insulin, to sliding scale, to afternoon admittance to now morning admittance at 07.30. Not allowed anything but sipping water from 07.30 for a 4pm op???? No food supposedly from midnight before? Just hypogel rubbed in gums from midnight if levels lower.

I don't eat breakfast or lunch anyway but the pre opassessment nurse obviously never heard of waking phenomenon or dawn..

Would just be nice to have somebody with some diabetic knowledge pre op...I waited a week before being told what anaethetist had suggested...

Got brilliant surgeon but my diabetes care and eating care doesn't give confidence.

Hospital can't cope with my eating purely salads with meat or fish for a night. It has been suggested my hubby makes and brings in my food and leaves it for me, they will pht in a fridge until I am able to eat...

I know that hospital is not a hotel and very many persons with different food requirements.. But it amazes me that a salad can't be done....

I would just like to see nurses on surgical wards/day aards etc that have more knowledge that we are all individuals and that some of us really know our bodies reactions really well...

I honestly dread being taken in anywhere in an emergency and unconscious etc..or unable to communicate...one thing the pre op nurse did take a copy of though was my advanced directive!!
 

ButtterflyLady

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I've gone from being told, no morning insulin, to sliding scale, to afternoon admittance to now morning admittance at 07.30. Not allowed anything but sipping water from 07.30 for a 4pm op???? No food supposedly from midnight before? Just hypogel rubbed in gums from midnight if levels lower...

I've always been told that all they need for surgery is a 6 hour fast, so I don't understand why they have you fasting longer than that. Also, I've been told that a glucose drip is better than anything by mouth, even a little bit of gel, because anything in the stomach can increase risk. Particularly if it has a high sugar content, and there are gut motility issues.

The elective surgery guidelines say that fasting time should be minimised for diabetics.
 

anniehi41

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It's a wonder I got out of hospital alive! I was put in an ordinary ward after four days in intensive care following my Pancreatectomy operation, I was not diabetic before the operation so knew nothing about diabetes, the Diabetic Specialist Nurses were not on duty at night and the ward nurses knew hardly anything about diabetes, they were giving me boluses when I couldn't eat and telling me it's not really a hypo unless you are 1mmol! I had several serious hypos whilst in hospital all of which I know now could have been prevented. So I would say we need special surgical wards with Diabetes Specialist Doctors and Nurses running them and that the medical ward nurses need much more intensive training in diabetic care.
 
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CarbsRok

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I've gone from being told, no morning insulin, to sliding scale, to afternoon admittance to now morning admittance at 07.30. Not allowed anything but sipping water from 07.30 for a 4pm op???? No food supposedly from midnight before? Just hypogel rubbed in gums from midnight if levels lower.

Can you not put your pump back on? Does save a lot of problems.
I was allowed to keep my pump on and working plus the CGM.
 

Cl1ve

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Hi there. I'm a type 1 diabetic nurse doing a diabetes course at uni, and have a 4000 word essay to do on "what improvements can be made in diabetes care within your area of care" (surgical ward)

I thought I would ask the experts out there....you guys! As I have brain fog and cant get started!

Any ideas or help will be much appreciated

thanks, Lizzie xx

Hi . You could do an essay on the relationship of diabetes and carbohydrates . And how it could be implemented on a ward that would be very helpful if you are counting carbs

Clive
 

Daibell

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Hi . You could do an essay on the relationship of diabetes and carbohydrates . And how it could be implemented on a ward that would be very helpful if you are counting carbs

Clive
Hi. I agree with this and would add to my original post that the NHS 'eat loads of starchy carbs' thing must be very difficult for nurses who actually know that it's nonsense. I can only hope that where possible any diabetic nurse can help bring about change whilst fighting the idiot dieticians and kitchen budgets above; not easy.
 
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donnellysdogs

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People that can't say sorry.
Can you not put your pump back on? Does save a lot of problems.
I was allowed to keep my pump on and working plus the CGM.

Done that previously for ops and procedures but MDI I am getting even better levels 90+% of the time...

They wouldn't have a clue in this hosp about pump!! But there is no way I can wear a pump if I wanted to now. Which I definitely don't want to.
 

Lamont D

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Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
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I do not have diabetes
I like your thinking. Though the patients get given a really good menu at our place so they get to choose what they like (literally anything) but that's the private sector for you. But I must say I feel I tire myself out trying to educate diabetics about low carb meals and how to maintain low blood sugar levels with a low glycaemic diet. Most people see going into hospital as a break from the diabetes so they eat jam on toast, jacket potatos, chips sandwichs and cakes etc

Thanks again for your help

Lizzie

Hi Lizzie,
My story is not unique to diabetic patients, you will find a lot more of the star everywhere in the health care system.

The battle I had with doctors, dsns, dieticians and named GPs, locum as well an endocrinologist! To secure my diagnosis and my treatment.

There is a link below in my signature box of my fight to get diagnosed called 's reactionary'!
Please read! It will give you an insight into the handling of myself as a patient, that had really bad advice and health care provider's insistence of what is right for diabetics.
Which as you have already stated, is completely barmy!

I think most diabetics doctors would have a kiniption if I told them I'm in permanent ketosis!