Put on statins, have questions

[Gekkota]

Hey all, I hope this is okay to ask here. Wasn't sure where else to post.

I was diagnosed T2 back in March, and today I had my first diabetic review with the nurse. In a nutshell, it was bad. But after a long talk with her, I am feeling positive about getting on top of this, finally.

The issue I have is, I have been prescribed statins. This has freaked me out. My cholestorol came back as 'high' at 5.4. From my understanding, it should be under 5. Now, here's why I am confused. Last time had my cholesterol checked was 5 years ago and it was exactly the same, and back then I was told it was all good, just a tad over but certainly nothing to worry about. Now with the same result I get put on statins.

The pharmacy mucked up my prescription and I need to go back to the doctor for a new one for these statins, and I want to question the reason for going on them (the nurse didn't offer any explaination). But before I go in there and start babbling like an idiot, I was hoping some of you guys on here could shed some light on why I might be put on them, if you can.

I admit I don't know much about these meds, other than my dad was put on them after he had his first heart attack (he was also diabetic, T1 I believe) and so naturally this has freaked me out.

 

[Indy51]

It seems to be standard practice - all diabetics are put on them even for mildly elevated cholesterol.

The choice is up to you whether or not you take them. Personally I won't as I've seen no evidence that they have any benefit for females. There are many topics on the forum about statins and you'll find many opinions - really it is a subject you need to research for yourself, especially if you suspect you'll get flak from the doctors for refusing. Mine have given up bothering to raise the subject with me as my objections to taking them are already on record

 

[seadragon]

My total cholesterol was 5.5 but there is no way I would take statins. There is as Indy 51 says, no evidence that they help women at all and if you ask the question "how much longer will I live if I take a statin?' your doc, if they have read the research, should tell you between minus 5 and plus about 3. That means they could actually shorten your lifespan. There is also some evidence that points to higher cholesterol levels being more protective especially as you get older and that too low cholesterol levels are associated with higher mortality rates than high levels.Then you have to factor in the known common side effects as well as the rarer but potentially life threatening ones and decide what your quality of life is worth to you compared to the small potential benefit, if any.

Beware of being quoted relative risk factors too. My doc claimed a statin could almost halve my risk (of non-fatal heart attack or stroke) but the real difference was just 4% (and that was only for men anyway)

Cholesterol levels up to about 7 used to be considered 'normal'. Not sure why docs have been persuaded to lower the 'normal' level. Note also that in America cholesterol is no longer considered to be a 'nutrient of concern'. i.e it doesn't affect health.

When I questioned the value of a statin for someone whose cholesterol was already normal (i.e 5.5) I was told 'they have other protective effects' but she could not specify what those might be and from my research i don't believe them to be a good idea at all.

Do read the other threads on statins on here and read the linked articles. You have to make up your own mind and also don't be bullied into taking them if you don't want to. The practices get extra money for every patient they put on a statin so how can their advice be impartial.

The right diet and exercise will have a much greater beneficial effect on your health than taking a statin and without risk of potentially debilitating side effects.

 

[mrspuddleduck]

Whilst I completely agree with @Indy51 in your particular case I think you need to go back to the nurse and ask her for the rationale for putting you on statins. The reason I say that is you mention a family history of heart problems so you may be one of the people for who statins would actually be benifical. Obviously we can't advise you specifically as we aren't doctors and don't know the specifics if your situation but I do think a further conversation is needed so you can make the choice (rather than them being thrust upon you!)

 

[Totto]

Hey all, I hope this is okay to ask here. Wasn't sure where else to post.

I was diagnosed T2 back in March, and today I had my first diabetic review with the nurse. In a nutshell, it was bad. But after a long talk with her, I am feeling positive about getting on top of this, finally.

The issue I have is, I have been prescribed statins. This has freaked me out. My cholestorol came back as 'high' at 5.4. From my understanding, it should be under 5. Now, here's why I am confused. Last time had my cholesterol checked was 5 years ago and it was exactly the same, and back then I was told it was all good, just a tad over but certainly nothing to worry about. Now with the same result I get put on statins.

The pharmacy mucked up my prescription and I need to go back to the doctor for a new one for these statins, and I want to question the reason for going on them (the nurse didn't offer any explaination). But before I go in there and start babbling like an idiot, I was hoping some of you guys on here could shed some light on why I might be put on them, if you can.

I admit I don't know much about these meds, other than my dad was put on them after he had his first heart attack (he was also diabetic, T1 I believe) and so naturally this has freaked me out.

Total cholesterol isn't very useful. You need to get the breakdown numbers, that is LDL, HDL and triglycerides.

And I agree with the others.

 

[lucy1946///30]

I totally agree with you, I think all Statins are BAD i refuse to take them e ven discussed going off them with my doctor and he didn't want to listen so I have taken myself off them. might not be the best thing but so many bad side affects .will wait for my next blood test ???






Edited to make it clear that this is a personal opinion.

 

[Pinkorchid]

I have been taking statins for about 7/8 years now without any problem to date but I can't say if others should take them Medication is something we here are not qualified to give advice on that is something that should only be discussed with your doctor

 

[seadragon]

Just to add that the NICE guidelines for statins have moved ever downwards - used to be offered (note the word 'offered') to those considered at a 20% risk of of heart attack or stroke over the next 10 years. This has recently been revised downwards (gee are drug company profits falling maybe!?) to all those considered to be at 10% risk over the next 10 years. Note that many on the NICE panel have links to drug companies so perhaps not entirely impartial advice?

A 10 % risk means that for every 100 people they believe that 10 may have a non-fatal heart attack or stroke over the next 10 years.
So even without taking a statin 90 out of 100 people will not have a stroke or heart attack in the next 10 years.

So they treat all those 100 people with a statin for 10 years and they believe they will prevent 4 out of those 10 people from having a non-fatal heart attack or stroke. 6 out of 100 will still have an event even taking a statin instead of the 10 out of hundred if no-one took a statin.
No statin: 90 out of 100 have no events anyway in next 10 years
With statin: 94 out of 100 have no event in next 10 years
This means the best improvement they can possibly gain over 10 years is 4%. If they quote the risk is halved it means they are saying 4% is about half of 10% but this is relative risk not absolute. in the meantime all of those 100 people are at risk of side effects for those10 years.

Note that they always state 'non-fatal' events so does this mean they don't prevent the fatal ones?

I prefer to believe that by modifying my diet (LCHF) and getting fitter (walking and HIITS) I will remain in the 90% who would never have had a stroke or heart attack anyway. Of course I may be unlucky and be one of the 6 who would get one of these events whether you take statins or not (and one has to ask are these the same people or might statins actually cause some of these? - since their effectiveness is not proven in women and of women in particular a higher cholesterol level is protective as you age then I would want to know this before risking the many side effects of statins).

They use something called the Qrisk assessment (you can google it and find it on line) or at least they should, but simply class all diagnosed diabetics and pre diabetics as 10% risk anyway no matter how healthy the rest of your lifestyle so they are not exactly targeted drugs. So now you automatically fall in to the class of people to be offered statins along with most men over 50 since age is the biggest risk factor for heart disease and stroke!

The trials were done on men only and not necessarily diabetics.

So do ask questions and find out if they consider you have any other risks besides being diabetic. Ask for the cholesterol breakdown too since while the role of cholesterol is now known not to be a direct factor in heart attack etc they also know that high HDL is protective so if most of your 5.4 is HDL then I wouldn't take a statin.

 

[seadragon]

I have been taking statins for about 7/8 years now without any problem to date but I can't say if others should take them Medication is something we here are not qualified to give advice on that is something that should only be discussed with your doctor

I have to disagree Pink orchid and I think when they start using so-called 'preventative' medications and by definition drugging the 90% of the well population who were never going to get an event anyway, we need to be aware that a lot of the research on which it has been based has been challenged or discredited and that we put ourselves at risk of harm (not everyone has bad side effects but a large number do many of which are not reported back) by taking it. Side effects appear to be most common in women and those who are active (and therefore probably least at risk for heart attack etc anyway). I for one want to be informed of the risks and relative benefits before taking a medication for something I don't have and the doctors and nurses often don't give this information.

I'm not saying don't take them but do be informed so you can make up your own mind about risks/benefits - and also look at the role of coQ10 in the body . This is a supplement that helps to prevent some of the worst effects of statins. Statins disrupt the energy release mechanism for cells hence why the muscle aches. This is routinely supplied with statins in Germany and I believe America. Here they will tell you there is no evidence that it helps but it means they haven't done any properly controlled trials although the drug companies know about this need for co Q10. they also know that statins can increase blood glucose levels which has to be included on the warning labels in America.

 

[lucy1946///30]

Sorry if you misunderstood me Pink orchard Im not telling anyone to stop taking their medication!!! but i choose not to as I have done a lot of research about Statins and haven't liked what I have found. I do take Co Q10 and I like how I feel.
I am type 2 diabetic since 2008 and am managing it quite well . good luck Gekkota Its seems like a long journey, but you will get on top of it I'm sure, You never stop learning new things .

 

[seadragon]

The NICE decision aid is found on this link and may help you to decide whether or not you want to take a statin.

http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg181/resources/patient-decision-aid-243780157

It may give you an easy way to talk about it with your doc/nurse

 

[stillo]

Hi

it is very apparent that i need statins but unfortunately they cause me a great deal of back and thigh pain to the point that i become immobile, Dr as agreed to monitor me but my Cholesterol is alays high, i will never take a statin again

Stillo

 

[stillo]

Just to re iterate i am not suggesting you stop Statins that is for you and your Dr to Decide it is a personal choice that i stoped

Stillo

 

[lucy1946///30]

The NICE decision aid is found on this link and may help you to decide whether or not you want to take a statin.

http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg181/resources/patient-decision-aid-243780157

It may give you an easy way to talk about it with your doc/nurse

Very interesting article Seadragon thank you for sharing this with us !!!!!

 

[Serena51]

I was put on statins on diagnosis of type 2 about 12 years ago. Going online and reading about the side effects I asked gp to go off them. He was helpful but worried about the family history of heart problems.

The upshot was that I stopped taking them for 3 months and my cholesterol jumped from 5 to 10.5. Reluctantly I restarted them and still take them today.

It probably is best to discuss this with your gp before taking any decision.

 

[Pinkorchid]

I have to disagree Pink orchid and I think when they start using so-called 'preventative' medications and by definition drugging the 90% of the well population who were never going to get an event anyway, we need to be aware that a lot of the research on which it has been based has been challenged or discredited and that we put ourselves at risk of harm (not everyone has bad side effects but a large number do many of which are not reported back) by taking it. Side effects appear to be most common in women and those who are active (and therefore probably least at risk for heart attack etc anyway). I for one want to be informed of the risks and relative benefits before taking a medication for something I don't have and the doctors and nurses often don't give this information.

I'm not saying don't take them but do be informed so you can make up your own mind about risks/benefits - and also look at the role of coQ10 in the body . This is a supplement that helps to prevent some of the worst effects of statins. Statins disrupt the energy release mechanism for cells hence why the muscle aches. This is routinely supplied with statins in Germany and I believe America. Here they will tell you there is no evidence that it helps but it means they haven't done any properly controlled trials although the drug companies know about this need for co Q10. they also know that statins can increase blood glucose levels which has to be included on the warning labels in America.

Sorry but I don't understand what you disagreed with in my post as I only said we are not qualified on this forum to give medication advise that is between a doctor and patient. Every one is able to research about statins or any other medication if they want to and then are perfectly able to make up their own mind if they want to take it or not .Whatever experience good or bad we might have personally is totally irrelevant to anyone else as every ones experience will be different

 

[dannyw]

@Pinkorchid, if we cannot discuss medications here then what is the point of the forum ? Of course everything is personal but we can all advise how a certain med affects or doesn't affect us ? I can quote many hundreds of posts where someone has been advised to reduce/increase basal insulin ? There are posts advising what time to take metformin ? There are many posts advising bolus adjustments ? These are all exactly what you say shouldn't happen ?

 

[Bluetit1802]

As @Totto said earlier on, the total cholesterol figure is meaningless. You need to ask for the breakdown of your lipids, ie HDL, LDL and triglycerides. These are added together, or at least the HDL and LDL are added together, with a percentage of the triglycerides, to make the total. If your HDL is high (which is very good because this is the good cholesterol) then your total will be higher, if you see what I mean. Before you do any research or make any decision, ask for a print out of your blood results and check what this breakdown is. Doctors are now looking at the ratios between good and bad for a diagnosis of high cholesterol, not the total cholesterol.

 

[Daibell]

Hi. A total of 5.4 is not that bad and anyway as others have said, the total doesn't a matter as it's the LDL/HDL ratio that matters if anything.

Unfounded accusations against the medical profession removed.

 

[bilb_baggins]

Hey all, I hope this is okay to ask here. Wasn't sure where else to post.

I was diagnosed T2 back in March, and today I had my first diabetic review with the nurse. In a nutshell, it was bad. But after a long talk with her, I am feeling positive about getting on top of this, finally.

The issue I have is, I have been prescribed statins. This has freaked me out. My cholestorol came back as 'high' at 5.4. From my understanding, it should be under 5. Now, here's why I am confused. Last time had my cholesterol checked was 5 years ago and it was exactly the same, and back then I was told it was all good, just a tad over but certainly nothing to worry about. Now with the same result I get put on statins.

The pharmacy mucked up my prescription and I need to go back to the doctor for a new one for these statins, and I want to question the reason for going on them (the nurse didn't offer any explaination). But before I go in there and start babbling like an idiot, I was hoping some of you guys on here could shed some light on why I might be put on them, if you can.

I admit I don't know much about these meds, other than my dad was put on them after he had his first heart attack (he was also diabetic, T1 I believe) and so naturally this has freaked me out.