Put on statins, have questions

bilb_baggins

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I have been on statins since I was diagnosed 16 years ago and my colestrol is below 2 it wasn't high to start with I haven't had any problems with taking them but everyone is different I discuss it with my diabetic nurse
 
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Gekkota

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Thank you everyone for you replies :)

To answer a few questions, I did ask for a printout of my results from the nurse. She said she couldn't (fob off?) but would write them down for me. My triglycerides are 7.7 which is very high. She mentioned HDL and LDL but she didn't write these down. I wish I knew at the time they were all related as I would've made sure she included them.

Regarding one comment, I'd just like to say that I wasn't asking whether or not I should take statins, you're right, only I can make that descision with the help of my doctor. I was asking why I might have been put on them in the first place. And you guys have helped me to understand that a little better :)

I have yet to take them, so it's not a case of whether or not I stop them. But if I am to start a new, and obviously unwanted medication (for the rest of my life potentially), then I want a better explaination as to why. From my new understanding, it's not just my cholesterol at play here, but a combination of things, such as my high triglycerides. This makes a lot more sense.

Thanks again everyone :)
 

seadragon

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Sorry but I don't understand what you disagreed with in my post as I only said we are not qualified on this forum to give medication advise that is between a doctor and patient. Every one is able to research about statins or any other medication if they want to and then are perfectly able to make up their own mind if they want to take it or not .Whatever experience good or bad we might have personally is totally irrelevant to anyone else as every ones experience will be different

i disagreed with this bit where you said 'Medication is something we here are not qualified to give advice on that is something that should only be discussed with your doctor'
If medication was only discussed with our doctors none of us here would be on low carb diets or have any idea that statins were maybe not the wonder drug they are touted to be. It is the very fact that so many people are unquestioning of doctors that allows NHS advice to be continually given out even though it is actually inappropriate for diabetics in many cases. If we don't challenge things then they can't and wont improve. GPs are generalists who probably have spent far less time researching the ins and outs of diabetes than we diabetics and may have no first hand experience. They rely on what they learn in uni which may be a long time ago for some and what they are told by drug reps (who obviously have an agenda) or by NICE whose panels are largely populated by those with links to drug companies so may not be impartial.
Add in the fact that practices get money for every diabetic on their books and for prescribing statins and I would very much want to discuss medications with others who may have taken such meds.
Yes we can research for ourselves but it is useful to be pointed in the direction of research which others have found helpful.

like this for example
http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2013/10/...-cholesterol-and-kill-you-one-cell-at-a-time/
 
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seadragon

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Thank you everyone for you replies :)

To answer a few questions, I did ask for a printout of my results from the nurse. She said she couldn't (fob off?) but would write them down for me. My triglycerides are 7.7 which is very high. She mentioned HDL and LDL but she didn't write these down. I wish I knew at the time they were all related as I would've made sure she included them.

Regarding one comment, I'd just like to say that I wasn't asking whether or not I should take statins, you're right, only I can make that descision with the help of my doctor. I was asking why I might have been put on them in the first place. And you guys have helped me to understand that a little better :)

I have yet to take them, so it's not a case of whether or not I stop them. But if I am to start a new, and obviously unwanted medication (for the rest of my life potentially), then I want a better explaination as to why. From my new understanding, it's not just my cholesterol at play here, but a combination of things, such as my high triglycerides. This makes a lot more sense.

Thanks again everyone :)

If your total was 5.4 then how can your Triglycerides have been 7.7? I would ask again for the complete breakdown as this doesn't appear to make sense. Trigs are included in the total cholesterol number.
 

Scouser58

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Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
Hello to all, I have been on statins for ages and cannot remember the last set of results.
Well the thing that has made me wonder is this, last test I went and said that I had fasted as I usually do, then told by nurse who was taking the sample, you don't need to fast anymore,,!!!!!. My reply was I have always fasted and will continue to as the results don't make any sense to me the other way.
She seemed put out, but I did it my way, I am the patient after all. has any one else been told no need to fast for their cholesterol test,?? Well that is ttfn from Karen.
 

donnellysdogs

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People that can't listen to other people's opinions.
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Yea, there is a test that can be performed without fasting.

@Gekkota
Please ask your receptionist for a print out of your blood results. They can't refuse. Other than that in the future make sure you signup as an online patient and ask GP for full access to your medical notes. This has been discussed in another thread. Its easy to sign up and most GP Practices should now be able to release data to patients upon request. It is brilliant to have full access to your results on an app on your phone/tablet etc.
 

Bluetit1802

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If your total was 5.4 then how can your Triglycerides have been 7.7? I would ask again for the complete breakdown as this doesn't appear to make sense. Trigs are included in the total cholesterol number.

Just to clarify, the total is made up of the LDL plus HDL plus a percentage of the trigs (not the total trigs). I believe the percentage is 20%, so about 1.54 of the poster's Trigs will be included in the total. My maths isn't brilliant, I hope that is right.
 

Pinkorchid

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@Pinkorchid, if we cannot discuss medications here then what is the point of the forum ? Of course everything is personal but we can all advise how a certain med affects or doesn't affect us ? I can quote many hundreds of posts where someone has been advised to reduce/increase basal insulin ? There are posts advising what time to take metformin ? There are many posts advising bolus adjustments ? These are all exactly what you say shouldn't happen ?
.
Discussion about a medication is a bit different to someone saying how bad statins are and telling their horror story about how they affected them as some people seem to be only to delighted to do Their experience is of no relevance to how they will affect others but it could frighten some people especially those newly diagnosed when they are really overwhelmed with it all and it could be enough to put them off taking them and that could be wrong for them
It was said on the forum the other day on another thread that it is against forum rules to give advice about medication
 
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seadragon

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Diet only
.
Discussion about a medication is a bit different to someone saying how bad statins are and telling their horror story about how they affected them as some people seem to be only to delighted to do Their experience is of no relevance to how they will affect others but it could frighten some people especially those newly diagnosed when they are really overwhelmed with it all and it could be enough to put them off taking them and that could be wrong for them
It was said on the forum the other day on another thread that it is against forum rules to give advice about medication


The actual forum rule is this.
REMEMBER: we do not give medical advice. If you give advice then it is through your own experience or a link to a reputable site external to the forum.

So it is perfectly acceptable to advise of our own experiences with medications and post links to info. If it so happens that most people's experiences of statins are not good then there is probably a good reason for it. I believe it is directly relevant to know how a particular medication has affected others with similar problems to one's own. Certainly for me it was very useful when first offered statins, to be able to read the stories of people on here and the links to information they posted as it enabled me to make an informed decision to never take them and I am grateful to all those who posted their stories and info.
 
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seadragon

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Just to clarify, the total is made up of the LDL plus HDL plus a percentage of the trigs (not the total trigs). I believe the percentage is 20%, so about 1.54 of the poster's Trigs will be included in the total. My maths isn't brilliant, I hope that is right.

I found this on calculating cholesterol

http://heartuk.org.uk/images/uploads/healthylivingpdfs/HUKcfs_E_Freidewald_Method.pdf

but it doesn't say anything about only using a percentage of Trigs? Do you have a link?

edited to add:

I found this interesting link - apologies to anyone not interested in how cholesterol levels are calculated but I actually hadn't realised that the LDL is a calculated and not measured amount and that this is done using a formula involving dividing total trigs by 5.

http://www.cureality.com/blog/post/2008/09/03/triglycerides-divided-by-five.html

Whatever it would seem misleading of the nurse to give the total trigs rather than the amount that goes towards total cholesterol levels as usually given.
Saying trigs are 7 something sounds frighteningly high but if the number that would be usually given is actually 1.2 then this is pretty close to what the desired trigs should be (by NHS which is I think around 1) and much less concerning even if you believe cholesterol is linked to heart disease.
 
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zand

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Having read the following book I am one of those who doesn't believe that cholesterol is linked to heart disease.

The Cholesterol Myths: Exposing the Fallacy that Cholesterol and Saturated Fat Cause Heart Disease - by Uffe Ravnskov
 
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zand

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One of the many reason I wouldn't take statins is that I have worked hard to get my HbA1c back to pre diabetic levels. Statins are known to increase blood glucose levels slightly, as a diabetic that's not what I want to happen.
 
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dannyw

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.
Discussion about a medication is a bit different to someone saying how bad statins are and telling their horror story about how they affected them as some people seem to be only to delighted to do Their experience is of no relevance to how they will affect others but it could frighten some people especially those newly diagnosed when they are really overwhelmed with it all and it could be enough to put them off taking them and that could be wrong for them
It was said on the forum the other day on another thread that it is against forum rules to give advice about medication
Advice is given on medications on this forum each and every day and nobody bats and eyelid. Do you not read the posts advising adjustment of insulin etc ? Yes, discussion is good but are you saying people should only post positive things about statins ? Do we all not post things relative to ourselves and how we manage our condition ? If I were looking to find more information out online, I would want to see both the good and bad, then make an infot decision, along with my medical team. That is what this forum is for.
 
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seadragon

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If your medical team is anything like mine, informed discussion with them is not going to happen. I tried believe me but I just got the well considered (not) advice that my doc would put statins in the water and then a refusal to discuss issues and a total lack of knowledge of any of the original statin trials or recent evidence re cholesterol not being a cause of heart disease at all. And she is the diabetes specialist doctor.
I hate the idea of being medicalised for something I haven't got, with something that will change something which is no longer implicated in causing the thing I haven't got, and may never get! And that offers no guarantees that I wont still get the thing it's designed to prevent (not surprising since it is changing something that isn't a cause)! Phew!
 
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copey399

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366
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Type 2
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Diet only
I was put on Atorvastin 12 years ago because my dearest son died of a heart attack at the age of 36 :( We were all tested for cholesterol and I think mine was about 8 so put on 40mg a day. I've never noticed side effects such as muscle cramps or anything but my back pain has got progressively worse over the years but I've never connected the two.

After reading something similar to the above findings I decided to stop taking it. My DN had already said that my cholesterol was "great" as I had started following the lchf way of eating. About 3-4 days after stopping them I felt awful. Pain under my ribcage and upper shoulder blade and just generally not feeling good. May or may not have been related but I went back on them and felt better (co-incidence?).

Despite drastically cutting carbs and increasing fats I still wasn't getting great results with my BS readings (which were still in the 6-7s).

I decided a new strategy, to take one on alternate days. It's only been just over a week but my BS went down to mainly 5-6s. I can't believe that just cutting down on the statins could have such an immediate effect so again, could just be co-incidence. I shall continue to experiment and maybe even try a half every other day. I didn't know there were withdrawal symptoms if you just stop taking them but as I said, I might have felt bad anyway. (I have since read that you can just stop taking them cold turkey without side effects)

I've got my cholesterol test print out but I don't really understand it. Can anyone else make sense of it please? I did look at the links above but I still can't figure it out. My DN seemed to think it was good but what about the below range HDL?

Serum total cholesterol level 3.8
Serum triglyceride levels 1.4
Serum HDL (Below range) 0.82

HDL/total cholesterol ratio 21.6%
Serum Cholesterol/HDL ratio 4.6
Calculated LDL cholesterol level 2.3
 

Bluetit1802

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I found this on calculating cholesterol

http://heartuk.org.uk/images/uploads/healthylivingpdfs/HUKcfs_E_Freidewald_Method.pdf

but it doesn't say anything about only using a percentage of Trigs? Do you have a link?

It is a formula used by labs to calculate the total cholesterol.
HDL + LDL + VLDL = Total

The VLDL is calculated by dividing the trigs by 5 (or 20% of the trigs) Apparently it doesn't work properly if the trigs are very high.

http://www.healthcentral.com/cholesterol/c/question/46198/47010/ and lots of other sites.

I also discovered that the recommended maximum for trigs is higher if you don't fast. These are figures considered healthy for most people, in other words, not specifically for diabetics.
http://heartuk.org.uk/health-and-high-cholesterol/cholesterol-tests---know-your-number

  • a fasting triglyceride should be 2mmol/L or less
  • a non fasting triglyceride should be less than 4mmol/L
 

MTB

Member
Messages
5
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
Hey all, I hope this is okay to ask here. Wasn't sure where else to post.

I was diagnosed T2 back in March, and today I had my first diabetic review with the nurse. In a nutshell, it was bad. But after a long talk with her, I am feeling positive about getting on top of this, finally.

The issue I have is, I have been prescribed statins. This has freaked me out. My cholestorol came back as 'high' at 5.4. From my understanding, it should be under 5. Now, here's why I am confused. Last time had my cholesterol checked was 5 years ago and it was exactly the same, and back then I was told it was all good, just a tad over but certainly nothing to worry about. Now with the same result I get put on statins.

The pharmacy mucked up my prescription and I need to go back to the doctor for a new one for these statins, and I want to question the reason for going on them (the nurse didn't offer any explaination). But before I go in there and start babbling like an idiot, I was hoping some of you guys on here could shed some light on why I might be put on them, if you can.

I admit I don't know much about these meds, other than my dad was put on them after he had his first heart attack (he was also diabetic, T1 I believe) and so naturally this has freaked me out.
 

Brunneria

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@Pinkorchid

You state that you have experienced no side effects from statins.
But i don't think you can confidently make that claim.

Statins are known to raise blood glucose levels and increase the risk of diabetes (it is listed as a contraindication on the leaflets inside every box).

You have mentioned elsewhere that you have been prediabetic for several years, and have just been diagnosed as type 2. So it is perfectly possible that taking statins has accelerated or even caused your development of type 2.

Of course, you will never know, but your doc should have discussed this with you, and made you aware of the risks when he prescribed the statins. The fact that you don't already know this, suggests that he/she did not give you important information when prescribing.

If your development of type 2 is in any way a side effect of long term statin use, then you have my deepest sympathy.

There is also mounting evidence that prescribing statins to anyone over 70 years old does significantly more harm than good:
http://www.newsmax.com/Health/Health-News/statins-elderly-lipitor-zocor/2013/10/24/id/532854/
 
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copey399

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@Pinkorchid

You state that you have experienced no side effects from statins.
But i don't think you can confidently make that claim.

Statins are known to raise blood glucose levels and increase the risk of diabetes (it is listed as a contraindication on the leaflets inside every box).

You have mentioned elsewhere that you have been prediabetic for several years, and have just been diagnosed as type 2. So it is perfectly possible that taking statins has accelerated or even caused your development of type 2.

Of course, you will never know, but your doc should have discussed this with you, and made you aware of the risks when he prescribed the statins. The fact that you don't already know this, suggests that he/she did not give you important information when prescribing.

If your development of type 2 is in any way a side effect of long term statin use, then you have my deepest sympathy.

There is also mounting evidence that prescribing statins to anyone over 70 years old does significantly more harm than good:
http://www.newsmax.com/Health/Health-News/statins-elderly-lipitor-zocor/2013/10/24/id/532854/

So how do I stand then, having been on them for 12 years and now in my 70s do you think? Beginning to wonder if they contributed to my T2 diagnosis recently :( It's funny I've noticed better BS since I halved the dose.
 

zand

Master
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So how do I stand then, having been on them for 12 years and now in my 70s do you think? Beginning to wonder if they contributed to my T2 diagnosis recently :( It's funny I've noticed better BS since I halved the dose.
I think you have answered your own question...... "It's funny I've noticed better BS since I halved the dose"

Also there is no evidence that statins are any use reducing the risks of heart failure in women at all.
 
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