An all-in attempt at remission/reversal!

Oldvatr

Expert
Messages
8,470
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
I am going to muddy the waters a bit, because I think this is relevant to your quest.
Its a 2018 study on the effectiveness of different diets in reducing Insulin resistance in T2D on the basis of varying diferent macro's.

It is a formal paper, and it is very heavy reading so not for the feint hearted, but it does cover the topic dietplan.

From what I can glean on first read is that the Low Fat High Complex Carb (LFHCC) and a Low Fat High Carb (LFHC) diets had no significant effect on Insulin Resistance or ectopic fat removal. A modified LFHCC with omega-3 fat instead of Omega-6 oil (LFHCC+n3) had a small reduction on IR and ectopic fat.

A comparison between a Low GI diet vs an isocaloric High GI diet showed a better improvement in IR from the Low GI one.

They found a High Protein diet had significant reduction on IR and ectopic fat and further found that plant based protein has a 36% decrease but the animal protein one had a 48% decrease.

The Mediterranean diet with olive oil performed well but diets that used MUFA or PUFA fat were not included in their analysis. Low carb diets were mentioned in passing, but again were not included in their analysis.

This is not gospel or enshrined in stone, so take with a pinch of potassuim salt.
 

Beating-My-Betes

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664
As I said on Friday, I intended to have two days of higher fat before hugely cutting back on fat and protein for a period. So I am posting Saturday's higher-fat day along with today's first day of the huge fat cut. Interestingly, Saturday's food was not too far off of what I eat on a non-plan day, albeit still with a lot less fat than I'd normally eat. Had I fried the potatoes instead of baking them with no oil, that'd be closer to normal. Add in another dessert (or even a 100g bar of chocolate) and a can of 'Full-Fat' Coke and that'd be closer to the kind of diet that's got me to where I am ;)

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Paul_

Well-Known Member
Messages
474
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I've read a lot of scary stuff since being diagnosed with T2 in July. This thread is without question the most terrifying thing I've read.

I will simply repeat the comments of so many before - please see a doctor, seek advice from an appropriately qualified medical professional before continuing these experiments any further. I'm not prescribing or diagnosing here, but your health related metrics throughout this thread indicate you need urgent assistance/advice for blood glucose management and blood pressure management. Regardless of how long these numbers have been the case, every additional day they're like it increases the risk of very serious outcomes or death exponentially.

This isn't an attack or criticism, it's a reply made with genuine concern. Please take steps to get professional assistance and discontinue these experiments until then.
 

ianf0ster

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Staff Member
Messages
2,438
Type of diabetes
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Diet only
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exercise, phone calls
I've read a lot of scary stuff since being diagnosed with T2 in July. This thread is without question the most terrifying thing I've read.

I will simply repeat the comments of so many before - please see a doctor, seek advice from an appropriately qualified medical professional before continuing these experiments any further. I'm not prescribing or diagnosing here, but your health related metrics throughout this thread indicate you need urgent assistance/advice for blood glucose management and blood pressure management. Regardless of how long these numbers have been the case, every additional day they're like it increases the risk of very serious outcomes or death exponentially.

This isn't an attack or criticism, it's a reply made with genuine concern. Please take steps to get professional assistance and discontinue these experiments until then.
@Paul_ You said that you were 't going to post any more in this thread!
The OP has a right to treat their diabetes as they wish so long as they don't make false claims. Just as anyone else has aright to follow their example should they wish to!
 

Paul_

Well-Known Member
Messages
474
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@Paul_ You said that you were 't going to post any more in this thread!
The OP has a right to treat their diabetes as they wish so long as they don't make false claims. Just as anyone else has aright to follow their example should they wish to!
Hi. It was the "Mastering Diabetes" thread I said I wasn't going to post on again. I hadn't seen this thread before until when I posted, ironically as a massive, slow moving thunder and lightning storm was directly overhead my house, which had woken me up. It was quite the setting to read this thread in.

For clarification, I'm not questioning or fighting against anyone's right to treat their diabetes how they wish. I am, however, pleading with someone who has put screenshots of hypertensive crisis levels of high blood pressure on a public forum, to see a doctor about it. I'm also urging them, a T2 diabetic with screenshots of uncontrolled BG readings, whose diet plan is including full fat coke, to take a step back and review with a qualified medical professional. To be perfectly clear, full fat coke isn't recommended on any non-diabetic diets for perfectly healthy individuals, so with the screenshotted BG readings, seeing this was very concerning.

My post was out of genuine concern. I may have had a disagreement with OP, but that doesn't mean I don't care. I didn't critique OP's method, plan or approach, however if we can't look out for other forum members when they may be taking unnecessary risks, recommending they see medical professionals before continuing, when there are screenshots showing why they likely need those professionals, we're all letting each other down in my opinion.
 

Oldvatr

Expert
Messages
8,470
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi. It was the "Mastering Diabetes" thread I said I wasn't going to post on again. I hadn't seen this thread before until when I posted, ironically as a massive, slow moving thunder and lightning storm was directly overhead my house, which had woken me up. It was quite the setting to read this thread in.

For clarification, I'm not questioning or fighting against anyone's right to treat their diabetes how they wish. I am, however, pleading with someone who has put screenshots of hypertensive crisis levels of high blood pressure on a public forum, to see a doctor about it. I'm also urging them, a T2 diabetic with screenshots of uncontrolled BG readings, whose diet plan is including full fat coke, to take a step back and review with a qualified medical professional. To be perfectly clear, full fat coke isn't recommended on any non-diabetic diets for perfectly healthy individuals, so with the screenshotted BG readings, seeing this was very concerning.

My post was out of genuine concern. I may have had a disagreement with OP, but that doesn't mean I don't care. I didn't critique OP's method, plan or approach, however if we can't look out for other forum members when they may be taking unnecessary risks, recommending they see medical professionals before continuing, when there are screenshots showing why they likely need those professionals, we're all letting each other down in my opinion.
We also owe a duty of care to other forum members who may read these threads, and take away incorrect interpretations of what they read. I feel it is important to be able to question the validity of statements being made that are not backed up by viable evidence. Some of these readers may be Newbies who are new to this forum, and who may not have the experience or knowledge to make an informed decision.

i agree with what Paul_ has said that medical care is indeed indicated by the posted results as many of us have attested to in the thread.
 

AndBreathe

Master
Retired Moderator
Messages
11,366
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi. It was the "Mastering Diabetes" thread I said I wasn't going to post on again. I hadn't seen this thread before until when I posted, ironically as a massive, slow moving thunder and lightning storm was directly overhead my house, which had woken me up. It was quite the setting to read this thread in.

For clarification, I'm not questioning or fighting against anyone's right to treat their diabetes how they wish. I am, however, pleading with someone who has put screenshots of hypertensive crisis levels of high blood pressure on a public forum, to see a doctor about it. I'm also urging them, a T2 diabetic with screenshots of uncontrolled BG readings, whose diet plan is including full fat coke, to take a step back and review with a qualified medical professional. To be perfectly clear, full fat coke isn't recommended on any non-diabetic diets for perfectly healthy individuals, so with the screenshotted BG readings, seeing this was very concerning.

My post was out of genuine concern. I may have had a disagreement with OP, but that doesn't mean I don't care. I didn't critique OP's method, plan or approach, however if we can't look out for other forum members when they may be taking unnecessary risks, recommending they see medical professionals before continuing, when there are screenshots showing why they likely need those professionals, we're all letting each other down in my opinion.

Paul, the bottom line is, provided an individual has "capacity" he/she is at liberty to make the decision that please them, not matter if they are wise or ill-advised. As the old phrase states, one can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink.

As compassionate adults, we have to respect that.

In my experience, reiterating someone's errors only tend to make the person more determined to follow their own path.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Definition of "capacity": "Capacity' means the ability to understand information and make decisions about your life. Sometimes it can also mean the ability to communicate decisions about your life. ~~Source mind.org.uk

 

Paul_

Well-Known Member
Messages
474
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
As compassionate adults, we have to respect that.
As compassionate adults, we should offer advice in the best interests of individuals.

Regardless of whatever definitions you wish to apply, the data doesn't lie, and that data shows that an individual with those results should seek medical attention asap.

Hypertensive crisis:

US - https://www.heart.org/en/health-top...n-you-should-call-911-for-high-blood-pressure

UK - https://www.bhf.org.uk/informations... when,you urgently for further investigations.

The advice from both of these organisations is to seek urgent medical assistance. There isn't any other suitable, responsible or appropriate reply to the data presented on this thread, and all of my posts have recommended that and that alone.
 

Oldvatr

Expert
Messages
8,470
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Sorry, but I think as a responsible adult with 'capacity' it is beholden on me to share this following studies which are also relevant in some respects to the OP
and

and
and

and especially in respect of blood pressure hypertension
 
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AndBreathe

Master
Retired Moderator
Messages
11,366
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
As compassionate adults, we should offer advice in the best interests of individuals.

Regardless of whatever definitions you wish to apply, the data doesn't lie, and that data shows that an individual with those results should seek medical attention asap.

Hypertensive crisis:

US - https://www.heart.org/en/health-top...n-you-should-call-911-for-high-blood-pressure

UK - https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/risk-factors/high-blood-pressure#:~:text=Stage three: this is when,you urgently for further investigations.

The advice from both of these organisations is to seek urgent medical assistance. There isn't any other suitable, responsible or appropriate reply to the data presented on this thread, and all of my posts have recommended that and that alone.

Advice has been offered aplenty throughout the thread.

The OP is choosing not to seek medical advice. Frankly, we now just have to hope nothing dire befalls him and that eventually he will decide to try a different approach to his persistent problems.
 

Beating-My-Betes

Well-Known Member
Messages
664
Thanks to those who credit me with enough intelligence to know exactly what my numbers indicate, even though they may think what I'm trying to do turn them in the other direction is completely dumb. Thanks also for those who supporting my right to deal with this in my own way. It's the last thing I'd have expected.

Anyway...Forgot to post yesterday's log.

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Beating-My-Betes

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Messages
664
p.s On the charge of "...statements being made that are not backed up by viable evidence."? Not sure which statements they might be.

I already added a disclaimer right at the front of this thread. But so it's clear from now on, I will add a disclaimer to every post I make.

To wit...(t'woo):

I am neither a medical doctor, nor a nutritional scientist. Nothing that I do or say in this thread should be taken as medical advice, nor is it to taken as a suggestion that anyone follow suit. This is nothing more than an n=1 experiment, and not intended to replace anyone's current treatment protocol.

--------
 

Beating-My-Betes

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Messages
664
p.p.s Should probably clairy that for various reasons (None of which I'm interested in going into) I'm not currently able to receive medical help. If the situation were different I would be on BP meds, though not meds for my T2D.

It very much is what it is.
 

Beating-My-Betes

Well-Known Member
Messages
664
Disclaimer: I am neither a medical doctor, nor a nutritional scientist. Nothing that I do or say in this thread should be taken as medical advice, nor is it to taken as a suggestion that anyone follow suit. This is nothing more than an n=1 experiment, and not intended to replace anyone's current treatment protocol.

------------------------------


Awoke to a 128 FBG reading. This is the lowest I've recorded since diagnosis, 5 years ago (And never had cause to record before that). I've no doubt I've been lower at various points and will no doubt have higher readings again (Not waking-up at the same time every morning being just one of the many confounders for testing). Still, it's definitely going in the right direction and that's a win I'm happy to take.

Perhaps at some point I'll work out my rough trajectory since diagnosis. It will be from memory, as I didn't really keep too many records, and the testing I did share disappeared with the blogs.

A for today? Pretty all over the place, and not what I'd have planned to eat. Had to run various errands today, and n between couldn't be bothered to do anything but graze. By the time the evening came, I'd hugely under-eaten and so over-ate (Not in the caloric sense, but in an uncomfortably-stuffed sense). Could definitely have done without the two cereal bars. And had I waited to let my bigger meal sit for a few minutes, I'd have realised i DEFINITELY! didn't need them. Still way under enery expended for the day, though ;)

Definitely makes a difference not having fat and protein, and I've been intentionally keepng the meals very simple. This will change pretty soon, as I start to get into more of a rhythm. Having to share a small kitchen with three other independent lodgers makes it difficult to have the time or space to prepare better meals, nor easily storethe leftovers. But I'll make it work.\\Nect couple of days will probably be fruit only (Whole, juices, smoothies etc.), and after tomorrow will give a good go at giving up coffee. Perhaps after that, I'll start adding mor colour to my meals ;)



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Oldvatr

Expert
Messages
8,470
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
That drop in bgl is probably due to the low fat intake. Your body needs fats to survive, so it synthesises what fats it needs from (a) cut and shut on eaten dietary fats , (B) building fats from scratch from glucose by de novo lipogenesis, and finally if the bgl levels are low below about 100 mg/dl then the stripping down and synthesis from proteins in the body, which is usually referred to as muscle scavenging. Type (a) is preferred and uses least energy. (b) and (c) use up quite a lot of energy, and (C) especially is a wasting (i.e. starvation) condition that should be avoided. So beware of reducing your protein intake too low, and also keeep an eye on the blood sugar levels. Running in the 80-100 mg/dl region sounds ideal, but without the dietary fat it can be harmful in the longer term. Ok for a crash diet plan, but not a lifestyle change.
 
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Beating-My-Betes

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664
I don't think I ever suggested I'd be very low-protein and fat as a lifestyle. Thought it was very clear that it was only going to be for a short period.

Perhaps not...