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Artificial sweeteners, for and against

ButtterflyLady

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,291
Location
New Zealand
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Acceptance of health treatment claims that are not adequately supported by evidence. I dislike it when people sell ineffective and even harmful alternative health products to exploit the desperation of people with chronic illness.
A new member posted in a thread that "artificial sweeteners are evil one way or another so limit them" so I asked for more information about this, and suggested they start a new thread, to avoid derailing the one they were in. They responded that they didn't know how to start a new thread, so I thought I'd do the honours.

I'm not convinced that it is necessary to limit artificial sweeteners but I'm open to seeing any scientific studies showing that using them in recommended/usual amounts causes major harm. I admit that for some people, they have been found to cause problems, and those people seem to do better if they avoid using them. But at present I don't think this applies to the population as a whole.

The member said "My personal opinion on artificial sweeteners is based on massive doses of cyclamates and saccharine causing tumors, Splenda causing depression especially in women, Aspartame causing temporary blindness especially in summer, the fact that many pediatricians post these side effects in their offices to deter their use/"

My response to this is:
- If cyclamates and saccharine have been found to cause tumours, then it sounds like that was only in "massive doses". I'm not convinced that recommended/usual doses increase the risk of tumours, so would need to see scientific evidence to support this.
- I haven't read any scientific evidence that splenda causes depression, when used in the recommended/usual amounts.
- The same applies for aspartame causing temporary blindness.
- I would like to know roughly what proportion of paediatricians recommend people not use artificial sweeteners and on what basis.

Not trying to cause trouble, just would like to know if there is good reason for me to change my artificial sweetener use. I also think statements should be supportable by evidence, or if not, then it's better if they are clearly noted as opinions not facts.
 
Well FWIW this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25231862 is my main reason for limiting them - I'm all about the gut bugs these days! I do chew 1/2 a piece of dental gum after meals & have a small measure of diet tonic in my gin & soda but that's about it.
 
I don't use em.. I may have the ocaisional DC if put in the "rider" fridge at gigs.? But tend to go for the plain bottled water option.
(I drink to purely re-hydrate on these ocaisions.)

There's no evidence I know of that says it causes any harm if you give the artificial sweeteners a miss..
 
I use Erythritol and Xylitol in baking and I like to have a cup of Pepsi Max at night but I don't consider my consumption to be excessive. Sometimes I will have at least one piece of baking a day and sometimes I will go more than a month without any. 2 months ago I was drinking at least 2 cans of pepsi max a day and then having a cup at night as well and I was eating quite a bit of my home baking as well and I never had any adverse effects from any of them. Over the last month I have only been having 1 cup of pepsi max at night and I havn't eaten any home baking at all and I have actually been lightheaded and been getting headaches daily since cutting down. My personal view when it comes to artificial sweeteners is, to each their own and until I see a proper study done to prove that they are detrimental to my health I will keep using them in place of real sugar. As with many things in life I believe that it is all about personal choice and preference and as long as you are happy with your choices then nothing else should matter. I'm with CatLadyNZ on this one.
 
I can't have artificial sweeteners because of my bladder condition anyhow. But I found artificial sweeteners did interfere with my sugar levels when I did use them (which was a fair bit in the early days). These days if I want sweetness at all I use LoGiCane sugar which is sugar coated in molasses that slows down the sugar absorption in your blood. I only ever use small amounts if I use it and it is fine with my sugar levels. If i use artificial at all now it gives me a fair bit of pain... I know about it.
 
I have been trying different artificial sweeteners, Candarel, Xylitol, Stevia, and Sweet n Low, in tea and coffee. I found the first three had a slightly bitter taste, and the Sweet n Low was the best to my palate. I have only seen SnL in coffee shops like Costa and Starbucks, not on sale in supermarkets. I usually take a few sachets when I go into a coffee shop, to use at home.

I stopped using SnL after someone on the Coffee thread said it contained Aspartme and was as bad as sugar. But last night Clive on another sweetener thread said he uses it and it is saccharine and dextrose. I had a look on the internet and I see SnL claims to be the biggest artificial sweetener used in the USA. Other internet blogs claim saccharine has been showed to cause cancer in rats.
I wouldn't have thought that the US food regulators would allow the sale of something which causes cancer in humans (though as tobacco is sold that might be wrong).

Anyway, I only have 3-4 cups of coffee and tea in a day so I think I will be buying some sachets of SnL. It can be bought online from ebay and amazon.
 
I don't use sweeteners myself but my mother..not diabetic..used saccharin in tea and coffee from as far back as I can remember.. I think she probably started using them during WW2 when sugar was rationed so people got very little of it and I think a lot of people used them then When other sweeteners came on the market she used those I really don't know why she used them for so long possibly it was because she had got so used to the taste of them that sugar in tea and coffee just did not taste right to her anymore although she had plenty of other stuff with sugar in . She was almost 88 when she died so I don't think the sweeteners did her much harm
 
I think artificial sweeteners can be useful while we are weaning ourselves off sugar. Long term though, I prefer an adjustment to no/very few sweeteners as It's best to have natural foods and not artificial ones.
 
About the only sweetener I take is in the small glass of whatever diet drink I have with my evening meal, I don't have any problem with it. I don't have a sweet tooth so rarely bake and have always taken my tea and coffe black without sugar - oh and the odd sugar free sweetie.

When I do bake I use Splenda - did try truvia but didn't like the slightly caramel taste and the delay of tasting the sweetness
 
Prem51 said:
Other internet blogs claim saccharine has been showed to cause cancer in rats.
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The thing about rat studies, is that humans are not rats. The findings from rat studies can be useful though, in showing what happens in a similar species under certain conditions. The usual process is that human studies follow, which can give us better information. Another issue is dosage. There's an old saying "the dose maketh the poison". So we'd need to know what amount of artificial sweetener per gram/kilogram of body weight was given, how often, and over what time period. And also what proportion of the rats got cancer, compared to the expected proportion of humans that would get cancer anyway.

It may be that if you give rats a megadose of saccharine they will get cancer. But if you adjusted the dose for human size, you'd need to drink buckets of the stuff every day to get the same effect. There are chemicals all around us that can cause cancer, and it's very hard to make sure we are totally protected from them. Maybe 10ml of saccharine a day is not enough to cause cancer, but the asbestos fibres that dropped out of the ceiling unexpectedly during home renovations were, as a hypothetical example. It's very complicated, so when a blog makes a claim, I like to read the studies.
 
Interesting topic for discussion, but I really think it's worthwhile to consider (or clarify) what exactly is an "artificial" sweetener. Certainly it is too broad to label anything that is not sucrose as an artificial sweetener, but I'm kind of interested in opinions or where exactly we do draw the line on what is artificial and what is not.

A particular case in point would be the sugar alcohols Xylitol and Erythritol. Both of these are naturally present in small quantities in some berries fruits vegetables and fermented foods. This makes think that consumption of these, at least in reasonably small quantities, is perhaps more more natural than artificial. Just wondering what others think in regard to these?
 
I don't see a firm distinction between natural and artificial anything, as we are all part of the natural environment, and we take substances and use them in refined and processed forms, and we also bring substances together to make new compounds. There is a long tradition of people believing "natural" is inherently better, but that can be a bit of a trap. I read a good article about this the other day but it will take me a bit of time to find it again. For the purposes of this discussion, I'm thinking of artificial sweeteners as things like aspartame, cyclamate, saccharin and sucralose.
 
Neither for or against, there's artificial sweeteners in some of the food items that I consume like the Robinson Squash drinks and the Airwaves Sugar-Free Gum, don't have any adverse effects from the sweeteners in these products.
 
I don't buy artificial sweeteners at all. I used to drink Diet Pepsi/Coke but gave it up in 2012. Water is inherently healthier.

My husband eats what I would say is moderate carb i.e. 100-150g carbs per day as he eats gluten-free, having NCGS. Since he doesn't have diabetes or pre-diabetes, is slim not overweight, has great blood pressure, cholesterol etc, I do buy him sugar free sweets for the car as he has given up smoking.

Mainly Ricola sugar free herbal sweets from Sainsbury's and there are about three sweet shops in two counties I know of that sell sugar-free sweets. He can vouch for the laxative effect !

All any food manufacturer has to do, is prove that the additives they use are non-toxic, i.e. won't kill you immediately. In the U.S. they get GRAS status Generally Accepted As Safe. Food additives are never tested long-term or in conjunction with other additives.
 
I will have a glass of diet coke once a week and that is my limit nowadays. I have tried coke life (50% stevia and %age of standard sugar levels) and interesting I only went to 6.3 with it. When I bought it I assumed they replaced all the sugar with stevia but I was wrong so will not be having it again.

Other than that I stay away from phenylalanine as it is nearly as evil as that devil food, bread
 
noblehead said:
Neither for or against, there's artificial sweeteners in some of the food items that I consume like the Robinson Squash drinks
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Hi Noblehead,
Funny you mention this stuff.. & the barley version too.? (I was going to bring this up at some point?)
"Real fruit in every drop" on the front of the packaging.
We keep it in the house. My wife likes it as a "night drink" by the bed. But I hardly drink it anymore..
I feel it raises my BG slightly.? Especially since sorting my basal..
 
I think I'd agree with @uart about defining "artificial".

When I was first diagnosed I thought that it was a bad idea to eat any sugary/sweet things at all - and I certainly hated the vile taste of some artificial sweeteners in drinks - e.g. aspartame. So I've always avoided anything that included these in their ingredients, anyway..

However, I found I did need some sort of sugar substitute both in some of my hot drinks, but mainly in baking as it seems to hold eggless baked goods (e.g. shortcake) together better with granulated sweetener than without. I also decided that if I was going to be eating a low carb diet long term being completely sugarless was probably tempting fate too much, so if I could find something that was acceptable taste wise, was fairly "natural" as opposed to artificial/chemical, and didn't affect my glucose levels too much or at all, I would compromise, and try adding it to my diet.

My research found that stevia and erythritol fit the bill for me quite nicely, and they're also ones that seems to be recommended as most diabetic friendly. Their carbs are not digestible so they don't affect (my) glucose levels, they are also virtually calorie-less, and both taste reasonable, though some stevia does have a stronger and to me unpleasant aftertaste if I use more than a few tiny drops.

So I currently use a few drops liquid stevia now in morning coffee and bedtime cocoa, and I use a smallish amount Sukrin Gold for baking.

Robbity
 
I agree. I like to remind people that things like horseradish and rhubarb are quite poisonous in large quantities yet natural not artificial. I'm sure there are many other foods and natural remedies that are harmful in large quantities; common sense needs to apply together with some research data.
 
I'm more than happy to accept many natural things can be harmful, and using "natural" remedies can sometimes be dangerous, but when I have choices I do still prefer prefer my alternative sweeteners to originate from nature rather than a chemical lab....Just as with fats I prefer butter to marge.

I don't actually believe that sugar from cane or beet is any worse than other "natural" sources of sweetness such as honey, maple syrup etc, but I do know that these all disagree with my diabetic body, but that stevia and erythritol don't, so if I can use those, I see no reason to go looking for entirely man made options.

Robbity
 
Andrew Colvin said:
Other than that I stay away from phenylalanine as it is nearly as evil as that devil food, bread
Click to expand...

Are you able to expand on that, ie what is it about phenylalanine that you don't like?
 
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