Atorvastatin and muscle pains

[desidiabulum]

Hi all. In the past I have added my voice to those who have reported no side-effects with Atorvastatin. But having been taking it for 2 years I am now getting constant pain and regular cramp in my hamstrings, which I have never had before. Just thought I should mention it. I am on statins for heart trouble rather than diabetes as such, so my options may be limited.

 

[Lamont D]

Hi, I'm awaiting my doctors phone call from a blood test I had done last Monday to see if atoravastatin has had an effect on me since I started taking them a month ago.
I'm not certain about if I have had side effects, but I have been a bit more tired.

I would recommend you to speak to your GP!

 

[Enclave]

Do talk to your Dr about this, I have heart problems and due to side effects have come off of the statins ..my BS and cholesterol have both improved since I stopped taking them. ( I am on the LCHF way of eating)

 

[desidiabulum]

Thanks for your replies. I will indeed speak to my GP at some point, but it will be a matter of also negotiating with my heart surgeon, who has been a saint but is also a great statin enthusiast. The subtle art of diplomacy may be called for.
I do low-carb but not as systematically as some -- it's a matter of balancing different factors (not so much 'we are all different' as 'our lifestyles and other health conditions are all different').
Good luck with atorvastatin, nosher8355 -- plenty of people have reported no side-effects, and if what I have are indeed statin side-effects then they took a long time to kick in.

 

[noblehead]

Hi all. In the past I have added my voice to those who have reported no side-effects with Atorvastatin. But having been taking it for 2 years I am now getting constant pain and regular cramp in my hamstrings, which I have never had before. Just thought I should mention it. I am on statins for heart trouble rather than diabetes as such, so my options may be limited.

What dose do you take @desidiabulum?

I don't take a statin but did read up on them a few years ago when a consultant mentioned I should be taking them following a health scare, I remember reading that Artovastatin works as effectively in a lower dose as Simvastatin does in a higher dose, depending on your Consultants say so (and cholesterol results) you could try reducing the dose to see if this helps with pain and cramp.

 

[graj0]

Thanks for your replies. I will indeed speak to my GP at some point, but it will be a matter of also negotiating with my heart surgeon, who has been a saint but is also a great statin enthusiast. The subtle art of diplomacy may be called for.
I do low-carb but not as systematically as some -- it's a matter of balancing different factors (not so much 'we are all different' as 'our lifestyles and other health conditions are all different').
Good luck with atorvastatin, nosher8355 -- plenty of people have reported no side-effects, and if what I have are indeed statin side-effects then they took a long time to kick in.

This is always going to be difficult. It's a known fact, no conspiracy, that statins prevent the uptake of CoQ10, which is required by muscles to function. Some people have the muscle pain and some people don't, some people take large doses, some people take low doses, some take simvastatin, some take atorvastatin, some take . . . . . . . . . Basically different people taking slightly different formulations and slightly different doses.

This isn't new either, Merck were aware of the muscle pain problems and their cause back in 1990 (http://www.functionalmedicineuniversity.com/statin-CoQ10.pdf). I did try the "OK, I'll take the statins if you can get rid of the muscle pain". That got me nowhere, seems low cholesterol is more important than being able to walk properly. I even tried taking CoQ10 to hopefully alleviate some of the pain, but it never worked for me. The GP couldn't even recommend how much to take when I asked her. Not her fault entirely, it was my idea to take it not hers.

It was lowering my carb intake to 80 gms a day, and I fully recognise that it's not for everyone, but my cholesterol dropped to 3 and baring in mind the side effects, I stopped statins 2 years ago. Although the side effects lessened, they've never really gone away and I'd be interested in what the long term damage to my muscles really are. Problem is nobody cares, not the GPs who prescribed statins in the first place. Even now when I have a Creatine Kinase the numbers are high, showing that I have damage to muscle, fortunately they can tell it's not my heart.

I had started on Atorvastatin and have to say that side effects were not too bad, in fact the difficulty I had in getting up from a chair without groaning I had stupidly put down to old age, until I took simvastatin and then I really felt it.

 

[Pasha]

Hi all. In the past I have added my voice to those who have reported no side-effects with Atorvastatin. But having been taking it for 2 years I am now getting constant pain and regular cramp in my hamstrings, which I have never had before. Just thought I should mention it. I am on statins for heart trouble rather than diabetes as such, so my options may be limited.

Since following the LCHF diet I have been able to drastically reduce my statin dosage. I now take only 5 mg of Simvastatin/day .Thats about equivalent to around 2.5 mg of Atorvastatin. I have had some calf muscle pains in the past ,but could not trace them to the statin.
P.S on the LCHF diet I get low triglycerides ca 70 mg/dl and high HDL around 65-70 mg/dl

 

[desidiabulum]

What dose do you take @desidiabulum?

I don't take a statin but did read up on them a few years ago when a consultant mentioned I should be taking them following a health scare, I remember reading that Artovastatin works as effectively in a lower dose as Simvastatin does in a higher dose, depending on your Consultants say so (and cholesterol results) you could try reducing the dose to see if this helps with pain and cramp.

Thanks noblehead. I am on 10mg, which I think is the smallest recognised dose, but they would be big enough for a pill-cutter if 5mg would be a compromise. I am agnostic on the cholesterol/statins issue but my surgeon is a top Papworth surgeon and he is adamant about them from the coronary rather than diabetic side.

 

[desidiabulum]

This is always going to be difficult. It's a known fact, no conspiracy, that statins prevent the uptake of CoQ10, which is required by muscles to function. Some people have the muscle pain and some people don't, some people take large doses, some people take low doses, some take simvastatin, some take atorvastatin, some take . . . . . . . . . Basically different people taking slightly different formulations and slightly different doses.

This isn't new either, Merck were aware of the muscle pain problems and their cause back in 1990 (http://www.functionalmedicineuniversity.com/statin-CoQ10.pdf). I did try the "OK, I'll take the statins if you can get rid of the muscle pain". That got me nowhere, seems low cholesterol is more important than being able to walk properly. I even tried taking CoQ10 to hopefully alleviate some of the pain, but it never worked for me. The GP couldn't even recommend how much to take when I asked her. Not her fault entirely, it was my idea to take it not hers.

It was lowering my carb intake to 80 gms a day, and I fully recognise that it's not for everyone, but my cholesterol dropped to 3 and baring in mind the side effects, I stopped statins 2 years ago. Although the side effects lessened, they've never really gone away and I'd be interested in what the long term damage to my muscles really are. Problem is nobody cares, not the GPs who prescribed statins in the first place. Even now when I have a Creatine Kinase the numbers are high, showing that I have damage to muscle, fortunately they can tell it's not my heart.

I had started on Atorvastatin and have to say that side effects were not too bad, in fact the difficulty I had in getting up from a chair without groaning I had stupidly put down to old age, until I took simvastatin and then I really felt it.

Thanks graj0. I do see your point. My problem is that my nerve conduction is lousy from prolonged B12 deficiency so some of the problems I get have been put down to that, autonomic neuropathy, low blood pressure, etc. How do they test for long-term muscle damage?

 

[graj0]

How do they test for long-term muscle damage?

Creatine Kinase will show something, but it is used for all sorts of things including have you had a heart attack?

 

[noblehead]

Thanks noblehead. I am on 10mg, which I think is the smallest recognised dose, but they would be big enough for a pill-cutter if 5mg would be a compromise. I am agnostic on the cholesterol/statins issue but my surgeon is a top Papworth surgeon and he is adamant about them from the coronary rather than diabetic side.

Well the surgeon is the one who is privy to your past and present medical history and not those who you may read about on the net, statins will always be a contentious issue but at the end of the day the decision to take them or not is solely down to the individual.

As for cutting a statin, some meds your not meant to cut so do check with your surgeon before doing anything, but I wish you well and hope you get the cramps and leg pain sorted soon.

 

[zand]

My own thinking re statins is that if they are causing muscle pains/damage then how do we know they are not also damaging our hearts? The heart is another muscle after all.

 

[Pasha]

My own thinking re statins is that if they are causing muscle pains/damage then how do we know they are not also damaging our hearts? The heart is another muscle after all.

I can only tell of my experience from 1989 until today. see my signature below] ,we do periodic tests, ultra sound, Holter, Thallium mapping, and of course treadmill tests. ie you are under supervision. All during this time I have taken statins, except for one period of six months when I decided to stop them because of calf muscle pains.There was no change. I concluded that it was not the statins that caused the pains
I desparation I restarted exercising on a treadmill, at first very very slowly . After a few days I felt a slight improvement and from then on things have gradually returned to normal.

 

[desidiabulum]

My own thinking re statins is that if they are causing muscle pains/damage then how do we know they are not also damaging our hearts? The heart is another muscle after all.

Hi zand. It's not my field so I can't comment. In as much as I can make any judgements on health issues, I try to assess the personality and knowledge of the HCP, and whether they are happy to discuss things and admit when they aren't sure. I have moved around GPs and DNs until I found ones who know their stuff and whom I feel I can trust. On heart issues there is no denying the man's specialist expertise, but what impresses me most is that he is always ready to talk to me, listens carefully and engages with my concerns, explains things fully, admits when he isn't sure, and is happy to adjust medication according to quality of life issues. Given all that, I am happy to follow his line on statins for the moment.

 

[zand]

As you are on statins for existing heart issues it looks like you are one of the few who may actually benefit from taking them.

I have a suggestion. Could you ask your cardiologist if taking a magnesium supplement may help with your leg pains? I'm not suggesting taking a supplement without checking with him first. A naturopath suggested one for me and she gave me a test and found that I was deficient in magnesium. She said it would help my muscles and also possibly my heart too. It did. Nowadays if I have a recurrence of atrial fibrillation then one dose of magnesium puts my heart back into normal rhythm again. This may not be suitable for you and whatever problems you have, but I just thought I would mention it to you.

 

[graj0]

My own thinking re statins is that if they are causing muscle pains/damage then how do we know they are not also damaging our hearts? The heart is another muscle after all.

Spot on. I have read and I can't remember where, that the lack of CoQ10 which is behind the muscle pain isn't a problem for the heart because the heart makes sure that it gets it's share first. Clever eh?

 

[zand]

Spot on. I have read and I can't remember where, that the lack of CoQ10 which is behind the muscle pain isn't a problem for the heart because the heart makes sure that it gets it's share first. Clever eh?

Really???? So what happens when there's not enough left to fulfil the hearts full share? Yep that's real clever.

 

[desidiabulum]

As you are on statins for existing heart issues it looks like you are one of the few who may actually benefit from taking them.

I have a suggestion. Could you ask your cardiologist if taking a magnesium supplement may help with your leg pains? I'm not suggesting taking a supplement without checking with him first. A naturopath suggested one for me and she gave me a test and found that I was deficient in magnesium. She said it would help my muscles and also possibly my heart too. It did. Nowadays if I have a recurrence of atrial fibrillation then one dose of magnesium puts my heart back into normal rhythm again. This may not be suitable for you and whatever problems you have, but I just thought I would mention it to you.

Thanks zand, but I stopped reading once I reached the word 'naturopath'.

 

[zand]

Thanks zand, but I stopped reading once I reached the word 'naturopath'.

lol Fair enough. Stick to the drugs. I tend to go by 'the physician heal thyself' rule and she has indeed healed herself so well that she has left to look after the baby that doctors said she would/could never have. Not all alternative practitioners are quacks.

Edit: Do ask about taking a CoQ10 supplement though ... (and I promise not to tell you who first told me about CoQ10.....)

 

[Pasha]

Really???? So what happens when there's not enough left to fulfil the hearts full share? Yep that's real clever.

Well I guess the answer is a bit like the coffin maker. Somebody was complaining that he was using shoddy raw materials, to which he answered " until today I have not recieved any complaints"