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Australian scientists "discover" a low carb diet is good for T2s

Discussion in 'Diabetes News' started by tim2000s, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. NoCrbs4Me

    NoCrbs4Me I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    What's old is new again. Long before they came up with diabetes meds or even insulin, low carb was the standard treatment.
     
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  2. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

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    According to my doctor people on diabetic forums have axes to grind.:wideyed: Good job I was an experienced web user and found our forum before I was given this bit of (mis)information.

    Robbity
     
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  3. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
    Retired Moderator

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    :D:D:D
    According to my forum, doctors have axes to grind.:wideyed:
    Good job we all have more common sense than the medical profession thinks, eh?
    :D:D:D
     
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  4. TorqPenderloin

    TorqPenderloin Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to probably make a few people angry and saying this but:

    The study found that BOTH diets (low carb and high carb) were equally effective at reducing body weight and a1c results. That suggests weight loss is most important in long-term treatment of diabetes.

    The LCHF diet stood out most in reducing medication requirements, but the findings note that that was largely due to avoiding short-term blood sugar spikes. That is a temporary effect and likely not sustainable (you would have to continue low-carb eating indefinitely).

    Now, with perfect discipline, it is obvious that a LCHF diet is the wiser choice in this case. HOWEVER, some people struggle to deal with the social aspects of a LCHF diet. Many cultures and holidays center around food high in carbohydrates and that can be problematic for some. Furthermore, LCHF is a bit more complicated to explain which could pose problems for a single doctor trying to educate 1000 patients. I see a lot of value in a balanced diet as it allows people to eat whatever they want just in moderation. Long-term it's no less effective than a LCHF diet. The tradeoff becomes, are you okay with taking medication in order to enjoy all types of food (in moderation)?

    In short, it would be nice to see the NICE and ADA guidelines updates to acknowledge that a LCHF diet can be an effective approach, but I don't think it should necessarily be the only preferred approach (patients should have options).
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. forge

    forge Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    G'day all.
    I have not read all the posts but I am shocked by the lack of understanding by the posters about what the CSIRO (lead agency) and the Adelaide Universities have done.

    The CSIRO were not fossicking for GOLD and claim to have found a gold nugget in a gold mine as the posters are trying to claim.

    The CSIRO have thrown millions of Australian dollars at a the project to establish beyond doubt what is really happening,

    That is very different from a collection of samples of one, anecdotal experience (this forum) but the CSIRO has done a structured properly researched project and not just a desktop cherry pick like we all do. The CSIRO is not a ratbag organisation and everything it undertakes it uses top players in their field and they put their reputation on the line, so before anything is published it has been rigorously edited etc etc etc.

    What it means to us T2s who are doing lo carb in some form is we do not have to hunt around looking for a pro with experience with Lo carb. (I have been on it under medical supervision for more than 2 years) and I have told people about it.
    I was on 130 units of insulin and I came down to 4 metformin tabs but I have not done HIfat.

    But now the CSIRO has done a number on it probably 1 billion people found out about it overnight, lo carb for T2 became scientifically proven.

    The CSIRO does not throw that much money at something that they are not confident of getting a result and Australia's money back. The project is expected to get Australia's money back in medications alone without considering lifestyle benefits, you can read the published figures.

    One could say tho, that the CSIRO has stolen this forums "Thunder" BIGTIME.

    They considered Fat (fat got a mention in the news reports) but I have not read their whole report. So the forum can probably have plenty of thunder promoting high fat. Obviously lo carb was the real issue but I have not read the report but I am sure my Specialist will read the report.
     
  6. tim2000s

    tim2000s Type 1 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

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    @forge I think you are missing the point of this topic. Yes, of course it's great to have full corroboration in a controlled environment that can be used subsequently by the medical establishment. Anyone on a low carb diet to treat t2 revels in this as proof they were right.

    The headlines, however , were rather more "legendary" than the reality and a tongue was planted firmly in its cheek as a response.
     
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  7. forge

    forge Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @tim2000s maybe so, but this is the most significant breakthrough ever in taking the dietry problem to the worldwide public, it was an instant information hit to 1 billion people or more.

    To try to put it down by nitpicking news reports is weird to say the least.

    We should all be applauding the Australian Govt initiative, unconditionally.
     
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  8. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    Call me cynical, but I really wonder how much this will change anything, even in Australia where the reputation of the CSIRO is very well established.

    From everything I've seen in newsletters etc., Diabetes Australia are even more entrenched in the belief that you can't expect people to give up carbs than even the US equivalent body. I shake my head in disbelief every time I read their official recipes.
     
  9. muzza3

    muzza3 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @forge

    Of course this is big news particularly in Australia where the CSIRO are not just respected in all scientific areas but also produce annual recommended diets for the General populace. It will definitely impact the dietary advice of Diabetics Australia but it will be interesting to see how long it takes to flow thru. But to date the dietary advice I have received from Diabetics Australia mirrors what I see the UK NHS and US advise and most people find that insufficient to say the least.

    The Irony of seeing proved what many people on here have known for years does not escape me. And the fact that as an Australian Diabetic who lives in Canberra and works in the Media reads about this break thru first on DCUK just shows what an informative and valuable resource DCUK is to me

    And it was very amusing!!
     
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  10. forge

    forge Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Muzza

    I thought I had explained this the CSIRO cannot get $M funding to do this before they can demonstrate that there is enough evidence already to make them confident of a cost benefit outcome.

    It is not like the glory goes to who is first to put the flag on top of the mountain. The benefit is, there is no scientific doubt anymore so that flows down to us all one way or another.
     
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  11. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

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    As I understand it, a low carb diet was actually used for treating diabetes before the introduction of insulin. So presumably the medical profession had sufficient evidence at that time to believe that it was a "treatment" that worked.

    Robbity
     
  12. Mep

    Mep Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This isn't anything new in Australia... I've heard it for years now in various articles, news stories, etc. I don't think anyone would argue that less carbs means less sugar in your blood. But the only issue I have is that the "high fat" part of the LCHF doesn't work for me which means I don't get the energy I need and I feel like absolute ****. The biggest issue with it for me was the sky high cholesterol readings when I was doing the LCHF so I decided it wasn't for me. Not to mention since I last did LCHF I now have a very restricted diet and would struggle if I eliminated or reduced to a very low amount. I think everyone is different with what they're dealing with health wise and it is much wiser to say each to their own.... but no harm giving things a try for yourself to see if it works for you. I personally eat everything I'm able to in moderation.
     
  13. forge

    forge Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Mep you might have been on the wrong tram relating your lack of energy.

    My diet was supervised and they picked up low Potassium and the symptom is feeling like ****. Banana or avocado or meds will pick up your low potassium, ask your doc.
     
  14. forge

    forge Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @ Robbity not all the medical profession in recent times did not have enough evidence but now they do have enough evidence.
    My current specialist did have enough evidence but my previous specialist was old school. The tide swimmers have to do reverse skating now - like it or not.
     
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  15. nickm

    nickm Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi muzza3. I'm also in Canberra. Good on the CSIRO for the low carb bit. But the fat?? They still seem to think that dietary cholesterol causes heart attacks. Perhaps they also haven't read the most recent US guidelines which relaxed restrictions on saturated fats. Who wants to deprive themselves of tasty food unnecessarily?
     
  16. nickm

    nickm Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi forge. Can I temper your enthusiasm? This was research that compared the mean response to one proscriptive diet, to another. The CSIRO sample diet looks unappetizing and unfilling to me. I doubt many will keep it up long term. The study says nothing about other diets. It only tells us which was the better of two. And only in the short term. I'm want a good outcome in 20 years. Look at the limitations of RCTs. Remember Heckman got a Nobel prize for saying this is a bad research methodolgy in similar circumstances.
     
  17. muzza3

    muzza3 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Nick
    Fancy meeting a fellow Canberran over here?
    Yes agree that is is a move forward on the Carbs and I hope it move thru to the Dietitians quickly. I am in the last week of the ND and it has been fantastic for me. But moving forward I am looking at LCHF and still have some research to do on the HI Fat as I have high cholesterol ( well did before the ND) and have previously been caught up in the Low Fat Skim Milk scene
     
  18. Mep

    Mep Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm not convinced about high fat either... usually means high cholesterol. I have a family history of heart disease and all of them had high cholesterol and all of them skinny people. No one can tell me it's not a risk factor I'm afraid.... I couldn't care less about research on it as real life for me speaks volumes.
     
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