Bewildered

[TuTusweet]

I'm bewildered. I 've known for years one of my neighbours is diabetic. The other day I got to talk to him about it. He told me how long he had had it and how he handled it.

He is Type 2 --takes Metformin, another one I did not catch and insulin. Also 2 pills for Blood pressure and a statin.

He said and I will try to compress it--Diabetes Nurse is very very pleased with him. Always gets his carbs in at every meal, tries to keep his BG readings level, takes his pills and eats what he likes. Has 6 meals or snacks per day.
I asked what he had that day. Breakfast bowl of Sugar Puffs with milk then 2 slices white bread toast with marge and Marmalade, He always tests his BG just before his morning snack of a bread roll marge and ham with tomato. He only tests once a day.

I ask him what BG reading he got ( still reeling from the toast and marmalada). He said it was on target that morning at 16. DN likes it to stick at 16 to 18.

I could not think of anything to say. I know he is touchy and prickly so made no comment.
All his other food "gets the carbs in" Mid afternoon snack he always likes. He has two or even three chocolate digestive biscuits with his cup of tea.

His attitude is simple. He eats what he wants and the pills take care of it.

My head is still working out all of this and failing.

I'm on a very low carb diet and don't take any vile pills--especially not the ones my so called GP prescribed.
I always check Saturday as I wake up. I expect it to be between 5.5 and 6.5. Not often I check at midnight after a particular meal I want to check up on. Even after a huge Indian with Poppadoms and pickle A main course half a veg dish and a Naan and two lagers I only hit 7.8.

But oh how I would love to eat a pudding. Or spaghetti carbonara or a beef and ale pie with crunchy pastry. Or mash with cream and butter. Or rissotto.

Should I follow my neighbours example? He is fit as a fiddle at 78. Something badly wrong somewhere.Someone is being conned her.

 

[Mike d]

Glad she isn't my DN.

 

[daddys1]

Hi @TuTusweet, I think what you have told us about your neighbor and the district nurse is quite atrocious, but I have picked up on something you have said with regard to your diet, where you say you are very low carb and then go on to explain that;-

I'm bewildered.
I'm on a very low carb diet and don't take any vile pills--especially not the ones my so called GP prescribed.
I always check Saturday as I wake up. I expect it to be between 5.5 and 6.5. Not often I check at midnight after a particular meal I want to check up on. Even after a huge Indian with Poppadoms and pickle A main course half a veg dish and a Naan and two lagers I only hit 7.8.
.

I am amazed that you are only getting 7.8 after a large indian meal, looking in carbs & calls book, a 350g Vegetable curry comes up to 168 carbs, 70 carbs in a Naan another 7 carbs for each say 2 popaddoms and another 16 carbs for 2 pints larger Total 268 CARBS.

I'm not sure when you test you blood sugar but you may well be getting a false reading or you are out of the diabetic range. Having the alcohol will sometimes increase your sugars immediately but it may also suppress your reading. The oil in the curry will also prolong the reading over a longer period so where you should be testing just before you eat maybe you should experiment at 1hr 2hrs and even 3 & 4 after, because that is a very large hit of carbs in one go.

Neil

 

[Robbity]

The difference is that he's a type 2 needing to take insulin - do you want to follow in his footsteps too? Because you will eventually need both your vile pills plus that insulin if you decide to follow his diet and recommended BG levels instead of a low carb diet with much lower recommended levels (and some diabetics here aim for closer to normal rather than these type 2 recommendations). I'm also assuming that you're much younger than your elderly neighbour, which will give you more than enough time to potentially cause yourself serious damage if you choose go his way.

Taking insulin allows you to a certain extent to adjust your dose to your diet, so he is more able to eat all the wrong things apparently without serious issue. What he has been told re (starchy) carbs with his meals has been and still is to a great extent the current diabetic support thinking on diet, but is certainly incorrect if you wish to remain a healthy and "unmedicated" diabetic for the rest of your life.

Robbity

 

[Jaylee]

I ask him what BG reading he got ( still reeling from the toast and marmalada). He said it was on target that morning at 16. DN likes it to stick at 16 to 18.

I could not think of anything to say. I know he is touchy and prickly so made no comment.

Wow. I'd be touchy if I ran those BS figures...

 

[LucySW]

But oh how I would love to eat a pudding. Or spaghetti carbonara or a beef and ale pie with crunchy pastry. Or mash with cream and butter. Or rissotto.

Should I follow my neighbours example? He is fit as a fiddle at 78. Something badly wrong somewhere.Someone is being conned her.

No no Tutu, of course you long to eat hot marmalade pudding. But no, don't. Your neighbour is deluding himself. Maybe he wildly misunderstood the DSN. But it's his risk, and he'll probably pay a terrible price later, when they won't be able to fix things.

You stick to what you know. You're right.

Jesus, what a story.

And PS, what's with this only testing once a week. Try testing meal + 1, + 1.5, + 2 every so often. You'll get better info.

Lucy

 

[LucySW]

The difference is that he's a type 2 needing to take insulin - do you want to follow in his footsteps too?
.y

Yes but Robbity even with all the insulin in the world, THOSE LEVELS ... my God.

 

[DeejayR]

I'm glad I'm not your neighbour. Fit as a fiddle? Who says so? Him? Do you believe him? Or you? In which case you can't know just by looking.
This is the Devil Diabetes tempting you with toast and marmalade. Don't be conned by it.

 

[Daibell]

You didn't mention the BMI of your neighbour? Unless he's had all the right checks, perhaps he's a heart attack victim waiting to happen. That nurse needs to attend a re-training course pronto and with up to date diet knowledge. I wonder how many others of her patients are having their active lives shortened thru that advice.

 

[Jaylee]

You didn't mention the BMI of your neighbour? Unless he's had all the right checks, perhaps he's a heart attack victim waiting to happen. That nurse needs to attend a re-training course pronto and with up to date diet knowledge. I wonder how many others of her patients are having their active lives shortened thru that advice.

Hey, let's not forget the risk of stroke...! I have seen first hand, elderly head in the sand T2 "the tablets are a miracle cure" approach.. Unfortunately.

 

[graj0]

I'm bewildered.

DN likes it to stick at 16 to 18.

He eats what he wants and the pills take care of it.

My head is still working out all of this and failing.

I'm on a very low carb diet and don't take any vile pills--especially not the ones my so called GP prescribed.

Should I follow my neighbours example? He is fit as a fiddle at 78. Something badly wrong somewhere.Someone is being conned her.

Don't be bewildered, his DN is quite clearly managing his early demise. He might be eating what he wants but quite clearly the pills and the insulin are not taking care of it. Even NICE say:-

Type 2 diabetes (NICE 2008)

• Before meals: 4–7mmol/l
• Two hours after meals: less than 8.5mmol/l

So don't worry about what he says that his DN is pleased with. I've just shown you what NICE says and what this so called DN should be working towards.

As much as I dislike pills, it might be a bit unfair to refer to your doctor as "my so called GP", he's obviously read the NICE guidelines and like all GPs thinks that we, the diabetic, can't change our eating habits to avoid taking "any vile pills". Don't rule them out, there may always come a time, especially if you consider your neighbour as worthy of giving you any advice on diabetes.

You say he's as fit as a fiddle, my mates dad had a full medical for work at 60, and passed with flying colours, he died in his sleep a week later from a heart attack. You can't tell a book from it's cover, or someone's health! The only person being conned is your neighbour, I'm not even a medic and can say with confidence that a BG reading of 16 mmol/l is not good. BTW, I hope I've got the units right, I assume you were talking mmol/l?

 

[AnnieC]

Well I suppose thats the way hundreds of diabetics in this country do it and in some other countries to I imagine some may be a bit more sensible about sugar stuff though I think most doctors and nurses would tell them to stop that. They really don't have anything different to go on most will never have heard of low carbing . I expect just like the OP we all know someone who has had it for years eats what they like and get away without complcations . My next door neighbour has it and does not like his BG going below 10 says he feels ill if it does. His wife always says that my T2 husband is wrong to cut out all sweet stuff that eating cake and biscuits won't hurt him luckily he does not take any notice of her

 

[zand]

My next door neighbour has it and does not like his BG going below 10 says he feels ill if it does. His wife always says that my T2 husband is wrong to cut out all sweet stuff that eating cake and biscuits won't hurt him luckily he does not take any notice of her

This is scary stuff isn't it? If he doesn't like it going below 10, I wonder how high it goes up to.

 

[Heathenlass]

I think it's possible his DN would like him to be between 6 and 8, not 16 and 18 ! I truly can't imagine any HCP no matter how dim advising that. A case of patient misunderstanding, perhaps ? It happens more often than you imagine that a HCP gives advice and despite repeating it, and even writing it down, it filters through what that patient wants to hear and establishes itself as something vastly different

As for eating what you like ( especially a diet such as that ) and relying on pills to keep you free from complications, a quick tour of the wards of any hospital would soon put that idea to rest

Signy

 

[graj0]

He said it was on target that morning at 16. DN likes it to stick at 16 to 18.

I could not think of anything to say. I know he is touchy and prickly so made no comment.

How about "Oh that's very interesting, most DN's and GPs follow the NICE guidelines, I wonder why yours doesn't. She's not in your will is she. OK, leave the last sentence out.

 

[noblehead]

I think it's possible his DN would like him to be between 6 and 8, not 16 and 18 ! I truly can't imagine any HCP no matter how dim advising that. A case of patient misunderstanding, perhaps ? It happens more often than you imagine that a HCP gives advice and despite repeating it, and even writing it down, it filters through what that patient wants to hear and establishes itself as something vastly different

Yes that is a possibility Heathenlass, and another possibility is he is trying to justify his poor eating habits by saying that his DN endorses his diet and higher bg readings, Tu TuSweet does say their neighbour is ''touchy and prickly'' and says ''He eats what he wants and the pills take care of it.''

Without knowing the facts we can all speculate as much as we want, but we simply don't know what he has been told by his DN.

 

[Heathenlass]

Yes that is a possibility Heathenlass, and another possibility is he is trying to justify his poor eating habits by saying that his DN endorses his diet and higher bg readings, Tu TuSweet does say their neighbour is ''touchy and prickly'' and says ''He eats what he wants and the pills take care of it.''

Without knowing the facts we can all speculate as much as we want, but we simply don't know what he has been told by his DN.

Yes, that's quite true My ex MIL ( a type 2) used to tell that her DN had told her that eating scones and jam and having three sugars in her tea was needed to keep her energy levels up . She was also a large lady for her height and very inactive. I happened to know her DN well, and of course, she would never advise her doing this However, it did pull the wool over the eyes of the rest of the family though, to have her eating habits " endorsed" by her DN

Signy

 

[Robbity]

Yes but Robbity even with all the insulin in the world, THOSE LEVELS ... my God.

Yes I admit i was totally gobsmacked, Lucy - that nurse should be had up for attempted murder - but then he might be a bloody minded old so and so, and that's the best she can get him to manage. But definitely not an example to follow!

Robbity

 

[donnellysdogs]

Discussed old age recently with my vonsultant who said that when I was in 70's they wouldn't deem it necessary to keep my bloods in the normal target range...(i was only enquiring because I asked if I had denentia and on my pump that nobody would be able to manage it how I do...) she said I would be put back on to injections and my control would be relaxed....

So perhaps this is a national thing that old age is left to non target levels to be interpreted by nurses and we aren't going to be really looked after...

 

[Heathenlass]

Discussed old age recently with my vonsultant who said that when I was in 70's they wouldn't deem it necessary to keep my bloods in the normal target range...(i was only enquiring because I asked if I had denentia and on my pump that nobody would be able to manage it how I do...) she said I would be put back on to injections and my control would be relaxed....

So perhaps this is a national thing that old age is left to non target levels to be interpreted by nurses and we aren't going to be really looked after...

And thusly reducing the pensions load and cash from the NHS . Result !

Signy