BG numbers- what are the ranges that you aim for?

[RobsterinSheff]

Hi everyone

I have been doing some reading again recently because my testing results were going a bit wonky. In the end- as things settled down again- I decided it was because the teaching year started again and my body needed to get used to that- after the summer hiatus- and stop being stressed about it!

Nonetheless during this period of introspection I came across layperson / 'amateur expert' opinion on the one hand- and medical articles on the other- that give a pretty wide range of numbers we T2s should aim for when testing.

For example- moving from the low to high suggested limits I have seen recommendations that diagnosed T2s aim for:

• Fasting glucose of maximum 5.2mmol through to maximum 7.2mmol
• 2 hour post-prandial of maximum 6.5mmol through to maximum 10mmol

So my question is what are peoples own ceilings for their FG and PPG tests?

Since diagnosis my personal ceiling targets have been 6.5mmol or below for FG and 7.8mmol or below for 2 hour PPG- which when combining measurements for both I have hit 90% of the time: I am better at hitting PPG target than I am hitting FG target.

But, after the recent reading around on this subject, I was wondering whether I should change these targets (specifically LOWER them)?

I might add that those two lower figures in the ranges above I hit only about 15% of the time :shock:

 

[GraceK]

I feel as if I'm doing something right when I see 6.5 or thereabouts on my meter postprandial. That makes all the carb cutting worthwhile. When it's in the higher ranges I know it's because I've eaten summat I shouldn't have. It would be nice to get it even lower, maybe in the 5s but I'm not ready for exercise yet but going to get back to swimming soon.

 

[BioHaZarD]

I prefer my BG Levels to be under 6.0. I get annoyed if they go over, they have been over this week as new baby likes being awake at night, it had just mucked up my routine a bit obviously, but hey, will get back soon....

 

[KennyS]

I would guess that your numbers are pretty individual to you. Having said that, you have, great ability to influence what your numbers are. I personally look for numbers under 5.5 for a fasting reading. Seems that I read it in more than one place and this little diabetes information tracker program that I have will give a warning if you enter a fasting level above a 5.5. As for my postprandial readings, while I want to see all of my readings below 6.5, realistically I look at the difference between my before and after and shoot for a reading that is no more than 1.3 difference. It is very difficult to get a 6.5 in a postprandial when you've had a snack a couple of hours earlier that raised your readings to 6. As far as why I shoot for these levels, I have read in several places.... not NHS publications :? that levels above 6.5 are cumulatively harmful to you and continue the degradation that comes with T2 diabetes.

As far as stress goes, I am beginning to believe that it is a great effector of your numbers. Recently, I have gone through some emotional highs and lows and my numbers seem to follow as I get curious readings on foods that I have previously found to be acceptable with regards to BG testing. Of coarse this coming from a relative newby.

Kenny :wave:

 

[BioHaZarD]

As far as stress goes, I am beginning to believe that it is a great effector of your numbers. Recently, I have gone through some emotional highs and lows and my numbers seem to follow as I get curious readings on foods that I have previously found to be acceptable with regards to BG testing. Of coarse this coming from a relative newby.

Kenny :wave:

So true, since Friday with our newborn baby girl, my levels have slowly risen, today I am in my low 7's, I hate it, my diet has not change, but routine and I would say stress but not really if you know what I mean. Also I had a pneumonia jab on Monday, so this may have affected me too. Everything happened at once, so hopefully will be better in a few days and this won't ruin my hard work for the last 5 months.

 

[KennyS]

So true, since Friday with our newborn baby girl, my levels have slowly risen, today I am in my low 7's, I hate it, my diet has not change, but routine and I would say stress but not really if you know what I mean.

Only low 7's?..... I new member of the family and all the time, attention and work that entails.... I would be sucking on a Galaxy bar and a Danish!

Congratulations :thumbup: Soon your son will have a little playmate... and someone to blame things on.

Kenny

 

[BioHaZarD]

So true, since Friday with our newborn baby girl, my levels have slowly risen, today I am in my low 7's, I hate it, my diet has not change, but routine and I would say stress but not really if you know what I mean.

Only low 7's?..... I new member of the family and all the time, attention and work that entails.... I would be sucking on a Galaxy bar and a Danish!

Congratulations :thumbup: Soon your son will have a little playmate... and someone to blame things on.

Kenny

Thanks, Lol, it's a big difference when for weeks leading up to it, I was never higher than 5.9. But I am sure it's just a blip.

 

[hanadr]

I'm T2 on minimal medication and low carb, which suits me well and I've kept to for a number of years.
I like my fasting Bg to be between 4 and 5 and my upper limit throughout the day to be 6. I manage it most of the time and keep my HbA1c in the 5s. I need to go to bed at about 5.7, because I don't drop much overnight. That's why i monitor;to avoid upward "creeping"
I'm trying to lose weight too, but not doing so well with that. Having lost about 22kg, I find every 1kg more takes weeks
Hana

 

[xyzzy]

Just on 3 x 500Mg Metformin. On normal days I like to keep below 5.5 2 hours after eating and can manage that most times. My wake up fasting level is pretty random and can be anywhere between 4 & 6 for no apparent reason. Happy to go right up to 8 on the odd occasion but no higher.

 

[Sloan973]

Just a reminder that bg readings are not an exact science and variations subject to many factors. For those who are reading these posts and cannot achieve such good levels, it could be very intimidating. This site gives target readings of 4 to 7 fasting and no higher than 8.4 two hours after a meal. So for those who regularly achieve figures in the 5's and 6's two hours after eating, then well done that is great. But for those who only manage the mid 8 range, they should not be led to believe that they are at any greater risk than they would be with figures higher than the recommendations. Just a point for those to tend to be more anxious than others.
Eddie

 

[RobsterinSheff]

This site gives target readings of 4 to 7 fasting and no higher than 8.4 two hours after a meal.

That was the type of thing I was hoping to see myself when I started the thread i.e. the full range of targets that the full diversity of us T2s are aiming for but that are 'healthy' as ceilings.

Perhaps the responses to this thread have been skewed somewhat to those eating the "LCHF" 50-80g carb per day diet: who are a subset of our community.

 

[xyzzy]

Perhaps the responses to this thread have been skewed somewhat to those eating the "LCHF" 50-80g carb per day diet: who are a subset of our community.

If you read the IDF "Guideline for Management of PostMeal glucose" you will see the following conclusions.

Aim for an HbA1c of <6.5%
Aim for Premeal (fasting) < 5.5mmol/l
Aim for 2-hour postmeal < 7.8mmol/l

I have also PM'ed you other pertinent research on BG levels none of which has anything to do with how many carbs / day you eat or whether you are on a LCHF regime.

 

[BioHaZarD]

Perhaps the responses to this thread have been skewed somewhat to those eating the "LCHF" 50-80g carb per day diet: who are a subset of our community.

I must be a subset of the subset then, I usually do up to 35g carbs per day

 

[SandrafromOZ]

Eddie, thanks I can relate to what you said totally! Can be stressful for me to have readings in the high 7's and 8's!

 

[borofergie]

Perhaps the responses to this thread have been skewed somewhat to those eating the "LCHF" 50-80g carb per day diet: who are a subset of our community.

Maybe they (we) are a subset, but I'd wager that we are the most successsful subset of the community...

I eat <25g.

I don't see that FBG has any impact on health outcomes, and almost importantly, it is almost completely outside of my direct control. I get 5s to low 6s. I don't have a target, but I'm frustrated if it gets near to 7mmol/l.

PPG is important, and my aim is to never get above 7 at any time during the day. Not 1 minute PP, not 15 mins, not 1hr, not 2 hr. My aim is to have a completely normal HbA1c (<5%) and to never expose myself to glucose spikes.

The only time that I do accept >7mmol/l is after high intensity runnning, where my BG can get up to 10mmol/l or more. However, emptying my liver of glycogen is a good thing in my books, so I'm usually glad to see this.

 

[Grazer]

. But for those who only manage the mid 8 range, they should not be led to believe that they are at any greater risk than they would be with figures higher than the recommendations.

I completely agree that we shouldn't alarm those who cannot achieve figures as low as others. However, I do think that we also need to be frank about the dangers of high BGs. Then, if people can't get as low as they would like on existing diet/metformin alone, they have the choice of further tweaking their diets or seeking further medication. The simple facts are that non-diabetics very rarely get anywhere near the mid 8s on any form of diet, and the body regulates levels much lower than that for a reason. Many of us therefore like to achieve levels as close to non-diabetic ones as possible. Average Post Prandial readings will be reflected in our HbA1c, and every sensible piece of research ever done (I exclude the excuse for a study that the NHS used to suggest HbA1cs of 7.5% were better than 7%!) shows that risk of cardio vascular episodes rises as HbA1c rises. Studies have shown that even non-diabetics with an HbA1c at the top end (5.5%) have an increased cardio risk over non-diabetics at the more normal level (about 4.6%). To get as close to these levels as we can, we need to get our post prandial readings as near to normal as well. So there almost certainly ARE extra risks of having PPs always near 8 rather than a lower figure, but we can of course only achieve what we can achieve.

Perhaps the responses to this thread have been skewed somewhat to those eating the "LCHF" 50-80g carb per day diet: who are a subset of our community.

Not sure that's so. I eat 150grams plus of carbs a day on average, and personally aim for my two hour readings to be in the 5s, although I'm satisfied with 6s. Nonetheless, I take your point and the decision on personal targets needs to be based on "what will I settle for in terms of the three levels; BG, carbs and medication" Everyone will have their own balance and should stick to it.

 

[suzie_girl]

Perhaps the responses to this thread have been skewed somewhat to those eating the "LCHF" 50-80g carb per day diet: who are a subset of our community.

Maybe they (we) are a subset, but I'd wager that we are the most successsful subset of the community...

I eat <25g.

I don't see that FBG has any impact on health outcomes, and almost importantly, it is almost completely outside of my direct control. I get 5s to low 6s. I don't have a target, but I'm frustrated if it gets near to 7mmol/l.

PPG is important, and my aim is to never get above 7 at any time during the day. Not 1 minute PP, not 15 mins, not 1hr, not 2 hr. My aim is to have a completely normal HbA1c (<5%) and to never expose myself to glucose spikes.

The only time that I do accept >7mmol/l is after high intensity runnning, where my BG can get up to 10mmol/l or more. However, emptying my liver of glycogen is a good thing in my books, so I'm usually glad to see this.

This is really really interesting to me. I get timilar levels to you, I don't eat a massive amount of carbs as I've actually never been a fan but I wouldnt guess I'm super low like you. But I too do a lot if exercise and your comment there about the liver dump 10 score interests me. I always make sure I'm eating after exercise for my main meal so that I eat right as I hit the post exercise low, in order to avoid having the high. I would never in a billion years want to be at a 10 I was 9 once and got quite panicked!

Genuine interest in my part why are you feeling pleased to see this? Is this because you figure you're cleaning out your liver? But I'm thinking the rest of your body doesn't know any different surely its still bad for you, your eyes don't know its a liver cleaning high rather then a current bun high?

I'm genuinely interested to know the theory behind this. It does illustrate exactly that we're all different!

I agree with the comments on stress :-/ I'm trying to get away from a workplace which fails to appreciate meetings at 8am and 7pm plus deliberate piling on of stress is not good for me at all :-( bad bad attitude.

 

[Grazer]

Genuine interest in my part why are you feeling pleased to see this? Is this because you figure you're cleaning out your liver? But I'm thinking the rest of your body doesn't know any different surely its still bad for you, your eyes don't know its a liver cleaning high rather then a current bun high?

I've often wondered this, and I'm sure Borofergie will give a better answer, but my thinking is that if your liver is cleared out like that, the Bgs go down again quite quickly after anyway, and the empty liver then helps the uptake of glucose from the blood after later meals. So, a temporary short term high gives a future quicker reduction in post prandial levels. Maybe?

 

[GraceK]

I'll have to get my books out again and study this 'liver dump' thing because I don't completely understand it apart from something about if we haven't eaten in 5 hours the liver will dump glucose into the blood stream as a matter of routine. :think:

 

[borofergie]

Genuine interest in my part why are you feeling pleased to see this? Is this because you figure you're cleaning out your liver? But I'm thinking the rest of your body doesn't know any different surely its still bad for you, your eyes don't know its a liver cleaning high rather then a current bun high?

Kind of.

Because I'm eating <25g a day, I'm trying to rely on ketosis to stabilise my BG levels. The more ketones I produce, the less glucose I need to supply my brain with, and therefore the more stable my BG.

Ketosis is really a measure of how empty your liver is of glycogen. If your liver is full of glycogen your brain will burn mainly glucose, if your liver is empty it will burn mainly ketones.

Even though I eat very few carbohydrates, it seems that my liver is never truely empty, because when I race around the park for 3 miles on a Saturday morning at very high intensity (>90% of my max heart rate) I get a liver dump, and for the next few days my ketostix will show deep purple.

So basically I like emptying my liver once a week. (Robert Lustig thinks that clearing glycogen from your liver is the only real benefit of exercise).