biliary colic and possible diabetes

[Fran13]

Hi all am I possible diabetic .have had reactive hypoglycemia for 12 years, but now my glucose levels have changed.they drop 30mins after eatiing and then instead of dropping further like they used to it now climbs higher and higher.i get rreal cold chills turn purple.had 2migraines in a week, seizures, , palpitations and 3episodes of biliary colic in a year.i always hav to get up at night to pee now and get real thirsty as well.i feel I can hardly eat anything without getting high glucose levels.im also losing weight .postmeal levels at 3hours at now sitting in the high 6.0 sometimes 8.0.fasting is 6.6 on average now too.does this sound like undiagnosed diabetes to anyone? Seeing a neuro next week and endo in a month. Was on low carb high fat but because of biliary colic I can now eat no fats.help ! What do I eat now apart from green veges and lean meats and still keep my glucose low?
Fran

 

[AndBreathe]

Hi all am I possible diabetic .have had reactive hypoglycemia for 12 years, but now my glucose levels have changed.they drop 30mins after eatiing and then instead of dropping further like they used to it now climbs higher and higher.i get rreal cold chills turn purple.had 2migraines in a week, seizures, , palpitations and 3episodes of biliary colic in a year.i always hav to get up at night to pee now and get real thirsty as well.i feel I can hardly eat anything without getting high glucose levels.im also losing weight .postmeal levels at 3hours at now sitting in the high 6.0 sometimes 8.0.fasting is 6.6 on average now too.does this sound like undiagnosed diabetes to anyone? Seeing a neuro next week and endo in a month. Was on low carb high fat but because of biliary colic I can now eat no fats.help ! What do I eat now apart from green veges and lean meats and still keep my glucose low?
Fran

Reactive Hypoglycaemia isn't something I'm overly familiar with, but there is a section for it on the forum, I believe.

We have a couple of members who are diagnosed with this, so will tag them. @nosher8355 and @Brunneria

I hope you achieve some understanding in due course.

 

[Lamont D]

Hi all am I possible diabetic .have had reactive hypoglycemia for 12 years, but now my glucose levels have changed.they drop 30mins after eatiing and then instead of dropping further like they used to it now climbs higher and higher.i get rreal cold chills turn purple.had 2migraines in a week, seizures, , palpitations and 3episodes of biliary colic in a year.i always hav to get up at night to pee now and get real thirsty as well.i feel I can hardly eat anything without getting high glucose levels.im also losing weight .postmeal levels at 3hours at now sitting in the high 6.0 sometimes 8.0.fasting is 6.6 on average now too.does this sound like undiagnosed diabetes to anyone? Seeing a neuro next week and endo in a month. Was on low carb high fat but because of biliary colic I can now eat no fats.help ! What do I eat now apart from green veges and lean meats and still keep my glucose low?
Fran

Hi @Fran13.
Sorry I missed you.
Far too busy these days!
I still believe that low carbing is ideal for you. Low level fat is ok, but you have to remember that when you see no fat, low fat, reduced fat, in foods, it means they have been replaced by sugars.
I have no idea about biliary colic, but I will look it up.
Your post is similar to my story, before I was diagnosed.
I have Late RH. But I have heard of the stomach emptying quickly to give you the Hypoglycaemic conditions. And the symptoms.
@Brunneria will have a better idea about going from RH to T2 diabetes. But I still don't think you are.
Thinking while I'm writing, I think the no fat and colic will of course have an effect on your blood glucose levels. Also I believe it's the yo-yo effect of blood glucose levels that makes you feel even worse.
If your average is mid 6s, anything around low 8s is not to bad. Try and keep the initial spikes down and eat little and often , every 2-3 hours.

If you look at my thread. 'According to my consultant 2015' there is a video about the drug I take, sitagliptin, which has helped me so much.

Also look at the RH thread in the ' Ask a question' forum.

If you want the science Google Reactive Hypoglycaemia on Wikipedia, it's good information.

Hope that helps.

Have to go out now, back late this evening, will look for reply.

Meanwhile I'm sure @Brunneria will be around.

Best wishes and welcome to the forum.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi Fran,

And thanks both AndBreathe and nosher for tagging me.

Dropping blood glucose 30 mins after eating is very different from my experience of reactive hypoglycaemia. Is there any chance that your BG was dropping as you ate? And that the slow release low carb foods you've been eating are not hitting the bloodstream until after the 30 min mark?
Of course, that is pure speculation!

Alternatively (speculation again!) it is your primary insulin response which is excessive, not your secondary one.

Most type 2 diabetics have inadequate primary and OKish secondary responses.
Don't know if you might find it useful to read up on that...

How low do you go at the 30 min mark?

 

[Lamont D]

Hi @Fran13
I believe that there is a form of RH called Alimentary hypoglycaemia. Or gastric dumping syndrome, this could be what you are describing.
I have no idea what effect gallstones have on your symptoms.

Hope I have helped more.

Best wishes.

 

[Darbs]

I'm not sure about the numbers (new here) but have you been tested for gallstone? I had gallstones 6yrs ago and symptoms at first are like bilary colic - sadly they have given me long term pancreas problems so do get checked out if you haven't already

 

[Fran13]

Hi thanks for yr replies.yes ar first I thought it wasnt sinking in until after 30mins so then I took it every 10mins and found it did indeed go up first after eating only to about 7.8 then fell in the next 15or 20mins.so by 30min mark it is always below what it was before eating.how low it goes depends on how much and how refined a carb I eat plus my glucose level before eating.if it is in 6.0 before eating it will drop into 4.0 .once itdropped to 3.3.ialways know if it goes below 4.0 even without testing as I get adrenalin rushes.i have tested before and after these and it always pushes it up.but most of the time it will fall again in next 30mins if I dont eat...more adrenalin..not fun!
Ive found through a lot of trial and error that the only way to get rid of all symptoms is to only eat low gi veg and meat plus small amounts of pumpkin
The prob with sticking to this is i feel very deprived and after a few days i run out of stored energy and get tired and weak .cant exercise without a hypo.im a swim teacher so having enough energy just to work its abig prob.had 2 hypos at work last week during lessons.luckily one was at end of lesson and i grabbed a banana shortly after finishing.but i often hav to put up with hours of shaking and adrenalin at work.which is horrific and stressful.plus dangerous as ive had small seizures in pool.most likelyconnected to this(and larger ones thankfully at home).
Ive tried increasing carbs to get more enrrgy but its a very fine line of going over or not having enough.how do i find the balance of carbs?QUOTE="Brunneria, post: ember: 41816"]Hi Fran,

And thanks both AndBreathe and nosher for tagging me.

Dropping blood glucose 30 mins after eating is very different from my experience of reactive hypoglycaemia. Is there any chance that your BG was dropping as you ate? And that the slow release low carb foods you've been eating are not hitting the bloodstream until after the 30 min mark?
Of course, that is pure speculation!

Alternatively (speculation again!) it is your primary insulin response which is excessive, not your secondary one.

Most type 2 diabetics have inadequate primary and OKish secondary responses.
Don't know if you might find it useful to read up on that...

How low do you go at the 30 min

 

[Fran13]

I'm not sure abnone.doing ane numbers (new here) but have you been tested for gallstone? I had gallstones 6yrs ago and symptoms at first are like bilary colic - sadly they have given me long term pancreas problems so do get checked out if you haven't already

Yes hav been tested for stones several times and there are none.doing another scan next week.looks like its just really inflamed.anyone knows what will causetthis inflammation if there r no stones?

 

[Darbs]

Sometimes you can have micro stones that aren't picked up. They can do a HIDA scan which measures how well the gallbladder is performing - sounds like you might need to have it out - best to as if you do have stones they can cause all kinds of complications - I ignored my symptoms for months as I got really bad pain for a few hrs but then it would go away completely - I ended up with appendix and gallbladder out within 6 months and a problem with my pancreas. So I'd push them for most tests and ask about a HIDA scan - I'm not sure what else would inflame it but good question to ask your GP. Good luck

 

[Lamont D]

I would certainly get a referral to an endocrinologist, your symptoms are exacerbated by eating too many carbs, you are reacting (reactive hypoglycaemia) to the glucose created by the carbs. You are over producing insulin, therefore, you get the symptoms of uncontrolled blood glucose levels. You're yoyoing up and down from hyper to hypo. When you eat especially high carbs or sugar, you spike and then you have a gastric dump as you say and hypo, then you eat again, something car by or sugar like a chocolate bar. You spike and hypo. It's a vicious circle!
You say you felt better when you ate low GI veg and meat, but you didn't want to eat like that.
Well, I do! I have to eat very low carb, it's the only way I stay in control and feel better and healthier.
There are lots of different recipes, including curries, stews, etc. Read about them in the low carb forum.
There is a thread, 'what have you eaten today?' Have a read of that.
Hope this helps.

 

[Fran13]

Sometimes you can have micro stones that aren't picked up. They can do a HIDA scan which measures how well the gallbladder is performing - sounds like you might need to have it out - best to as if you do have stones they can cause all kinds of complications - I ignored my symptoms for months as I got really bad pain for a few hrs but then it would go away completely - I ended up with appendix and gallbladder out within 6 months and a problem with my pancreas. So I'd push them for most tests and ask about a HIDA scan - I'm not sure what else would inflame it but good question to ask your GP. Good luck

Hi thanks for that .I will go bk as its getting really sore again...even with limiting fats and taking anti inflammatories.i will see if I can get a hida scan.thanks again this was really helpful.

 

[Fran13]

I would certainly get a referral to an endocrinologist, your symptoms are exacerbated by eating too many carbs, you are reacting (reactive hypoglycaemia) to the glucose created by the carbs. You are over producing insulin, therefore, you get the symptoms of uncontrolled blood glucose levels. You're yoyoing up and down from hyper to hypo. When you eat especially high carbs or sugar, you spike and then you have a gastric dump as you say and hypo, then you eat again, something car by or sugar like a chocolate bar. You spike and hypo. It's a vicious circle!
You say you felt better when you ate low GI veg and meat, but you didn't want to eat like that.
Well, I do! I have to eat very low carb, it's the only way I stay in control and feel better and healthier.
There are lots of different recipes, including curries, stews, etc. Read about them in the low carb forum.
There is a thread, 'what have you eaten today?' Have a read of that.
Hope this helps.

Yes you r so right .you have described exactly what I think is happening too.i would like the low carb diet to work ...im just a bit lost of how to do it and be satisfied and still have the occasinal sweet thing.plus get enough energy from it to b active.ive tried sugar free jello today.tastes supersweet when yr used to veg all the time ..but it worked! No reaction.hooray!
Do u have energy issues ...when u feel all floppy and tired its hard to walk? Not sure why this happens.i just want more energy so I can get things done and b able to exercise without shaking and turning purple.
I have an endocrinologist appoint..just hav to wait another 4weeks.
What do u eat for carbs ?

 

[Lamont D]

Yes you r so right .you have described exactly what I think is happening too.i would like the low carb diet to work ...im just a bit lost of how to do it and be satisfied and still have the occasinal sweet thing.plus get enough energy from it to b active.ive tried sugar free jello today.tastes supersweet when yr used to veg all the time ..but it worked! No reaction.hooray!
Do u have energy issues ...when u feel all floppy and tired its hard to walk? Not sure why this happens.i just want more energy so I can get things done and b able to exercise without shaking and turning purple.
I have an endocrinologist appoint..just hav to wait another 4weeks.
What do u eat for carbs ?

You will have to get over the sweet thing, I don't at all, except 85% chocolate. Sugar free jelly and full fat yoghurt.
I try not to carb at all! All the carbs I get are from veg and the very, very very low carbs you get in protein and fat.
I have no energy issues, I writing this on my dinner break at work, I am in the middle of a very busy time and I had a day to see my endocrinologist on thurs, but I won't get a day off till next Saturday. I am a manual worker, as a groundstaff. I couldn't get through the day if it was over 2 years ago before I got diagnosed. If you read the success stories on this forum, you will see the number of low carb diabetics, who have more energy and feel a lot better after a couple of weeks.

I think of it this way, you have a fire burning and you want to keep it going, coal or petrol? Coal will keep it burning slowly and steady and in control, petrol will burn it up in a minute and out of control, then the fire will go out.
If you eat low carbs, you are in controlling and steady, eat carbs and sugars with the spikes and hypos and not in control.

Let us know what you think, and how you get on.
You are unique, and there is a growing number of us 'Reactives'.

 

[IncyWincy]

Yes hav been tested for stones several times and there are none.doing another scan next week.looks like its just really inflamed.anyone knows what will causetthis inflammation if there r no stones?

Have you had a blood test to confirm inflammation and/or infection?

Sludge and or polyps in the gallbladder can cause symptoms as well as stones.

Read about my experience with gall bladder problems here: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/gallstones-or-gallbladder-problems.75598/#post-830698

I was given buscopan tablets by the GP but I have to confess that I didn't try them. They are anti-spasm medication. I was "lucky " in that I didn't have any nausea or vomiting to contend with just pain - the worst of my life!

 

[Fran13]

Hi again...they have done blood tests which all came out normal but still a lot of pain and if I eat anything with a bit of fat...nausea , almost vomited and diarrhoea.amylase was normal too.i dont trust the blood tests for infection as I had a tubo ovarian abcess a few years ago .all blood tests were normal even though I had a fever and huge pus filled infection.it took them 3emergency visits and 2ultrasounds to finally find it! So it is possible to have normal bloods and a serious infection. Still on waiting list for another scan.just trying to keep pain under control and avoid fats at mo.

Have you had a blood test to confirm inflammation and/or infection?

Sludge and or polyps in the gallbladder can cause symptoms as well as stones.

Read about my experience with gall bladder problems here: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/gallstones-or-gallbladder-problems.75598/#post-830698

I was given buscopan tablets by the GP but I have to confess that I didn't try them. They are anti-spasm medication. I was "lucky " in that I didn't have any nausea or vomiting to contend with just pain - the worst of my life!

 

[Brunneria]

This is turning into a marathon, isn't it?

So sorry you are no further forward. Please keep us informed.

There's a thread on here somewhere (sorry, I'm short of time this morning, or I would hunt out the link) about coeliac, ulcerative colitis, and Crohns, which links certain foods and something called an FODMAP diet.

It may be totally irrelevant to you, but just in case, I will tag @Indy51 and @Winnie53 because they will know the thread I'm talking about.

 

[Indy51]

Thanks @Brunneria. Reading through this thread, I don't think your condition is likely to be related to FODMAPS foods, though since it is a diet low in fermentable carbohyrate, it might be worth a try. My go-to suggestion for anyone with any type of digestive issue is to try a gluten/grain free diet for at least 30 days to see if you get improvement in symptoms - gallstones in particular are highly linked to gluten.

Information on FODMAPS: http://www.med.monash.edu/cecs/gastro/fodmap/

Another suggestion since you're having issues with fat digestion would be to try a digestive enzyme supplement - they can work wonders for people.

I was on a regime of HCL+Betaine and digestive enzymes for several months and it made a huge difference to my digestive discomfort. I still occasionally take a digestive enzyme supplement if a meal doesn't quite "sit right" and it almost always helps.

 

[Fran13]

Hi all an update...biliary pain is pretty much gone now.the digestive enzymes work great too.stil waitin must b a long list for a scan.but pain is not an issue now.finally saw a neuro and found I most likely have epilepsy. ...hence the seizures! Started on meds and cant believe the difference. Amazing!
Seei g endo in a few weeks to sort out possible dumping syndrome neuro seems to think its this too.will let u all know outcome.
Ps ihav been gluten free for over 10yrs .....seizures even worse with gluten so I avoid at all costs.i notice I feel best if I avoid all grains too.
Many thanks
Will keep you posted