Calories in/Calories Out AND/OR Low Carb

[JoeT1]

Hopefully the title isn't too misleading. I have been eating Keto for a couple of months now, and after the initial bit of weight loss (now 7lbs), I have found that I have been more stable now or on a weekend even occasionally gaining a little weight, even eating keto.

One thing I have noticed is the argument going around that it's all about calories in vs calories out, rather than the carb intake. I have also seen the other side of the argument in low carb equals less insulin, so lower fat storage and weight loss. Surely it's a mixture of both though? I added in some nuts, and probably was having 2-300calories of the stuff each day without realizing as it was only about 4 or 5 at a time, but built up over an evening. This has probably led to a plateu in weight loss, so once I take them out, and cut the keto bread to minimum on a weekend, the weight starts to come off again.

So, I guess my main question is, when somebody is wanting to lose weight, should it not be pushed to reduce carbs, but also to reduce calories, rather than some posts I have seen that you can eat a large amount of fat?

Thanks.

 

[Deleted Account]

Not an answer to your question ... just another question (sorry)

I'm intrigued to understand why you are only looking at what goes in and have not suggested increasing the calories out (as your title suggested) with exercise.
I appreciate this may not be an option for everyone but it is the approach I adopt to maintain my weight and often wondered why there is such a great focus on diet rather than a combination of diet and exercise.

Just curious.

 

[JoeT1]

Not an answer to your question ... just another question (sorry)

I'm intrigued to understand why you are only looking at what goes in and have not suggested increasing the calories out (as your title suggested) with exercise.
I appreciate this may not be an option for everyone but it is the approach I adopt to maintain my weight and often wondered why there is such a great focus on diet rather than a combination of diet and exercise.

Just curious.

No problem, and what has led me to asking and questioning these things is my exercise ratio is more than a lot of people. I am minimum hitting 14,000 steps a day on regular days, and on other upward of 20,000, adding in some weight training and have been very low carb.

 

[Alexandra100]

So, I guess my main question is, when somebody is wanting to lose weight, should it not be pushed to reduce carbs, but also to reduce calories, rather than some posts I have seen that you can eat a large amount of fat?

If a person reduces carbs WITHOUT increasing protein and fat, they will automatically have reduced their calories. By contrast, a person like me who is drastically UNDER weight needs to increase protein and fat to compensate for the missing carbs/calories, (as does anyone who just wants to stay at a stable weight). Personally I find this difficult, as too much fat and I feel sick, and too much protein is probably not healthy. My only solution, which isn't really one, is to muddle through eating very low carb because my meter tells me to, and eating as much other stuff as I feel comfortable with. When I read recommendations to consume eg 90% fat, I do wonder how many people can actually tolerate this, and also whether it can possibly be healthy nutritionally.

 

[Deleted Account]

No problem, and what has led me to asking and questioning these things is my exercise ratio is more than a lot of people. I am minimum hitting 14,000 steps a day on regular days, and on other upward of 20,000, adding in some weight training and have been very low carb.

That sounds pretty good!

I hope you are focusing on body size as much as weight loss.
With diabetes, where everything is focused around numbers: BG, carbs, calories, ... :I fear we sometimes get too obsessed by the numbers on the scales rather than how loose our waist bands feel.

 

[There is no Spoon]

When I read recommendations to consume eg 90% fat, I do wonder how many people can actually tolerate this, and also whether it can possibly be healthy nutritionally.

This is why we talk about grass fed butter and beef, organic coconut oil and free range chicken etc...
The nutrients and minerals are from the animals diet and organic versions of foods.

A bit more expensive but you usually eat less on Keto so the cost balances itself out.

 

[There is no Spoon]

So, I guess my main question is, when somebody is wanting to lose weight, should it not be pushed to reduce carbs, but also to reduce calories, rather than some posts I have seen that you can eat a large amount of fat?

Hi Joe,
You have just set yourself up for the calorie is not a calorie argument.

But you are right reducing the amount (not calories) should give better results as long as your talking about how the body stores fat and the effects of insulin in this process.

Keto is tapping into the body's ability to burn fat for energy, both stored fat and what you eat. Thus reducing the body's insulin response trying to take what we put in and send it to the liver to turn into fat.

This is where a lot of us do not bother to count calories its not how much you eat its what you eat. Fat triggers the lowest insulin response so you can eat more as a portion than if you did with counting the calories because calorie counting assumes that your body treats everything the same.

To trigger the best response in losing weight the the less you feed your body the more it has to tap into its own fuel reserves Body Fat so counting calories is a good indication as to the amount you put on your plate and some people find that very helpful in controlling the amount they eat.

But the argument works just as well in the opposite direction eat more of the right stuff feel fuller for longer and you don't need to eat as much/ as often.

 

[bulkbiker]

When I read recommendations to consume eg 90% fat, I do wonder how many people can actually tolerate this, and also whether it can possibly be healthy nutritionally.

That is the macro for fat you don't eat 90% of your foods as fat you eat 90% of the calories in your food from fat (well not many people do in fact most aim for between 70-80% of calories from fat). As fat is about twice the calorific value of protein and carbs you just need to check which foods have a higher fat to protein to carb ratio. Avocado for example per 100g is 19.9g fat 1.9g carb 1.9g protein
So in calorie terms
total of 194 per 100g
fat 19.9g which gives 178 cal from fat
carb 1.9 which gives 8 cal from carb
protein 1.9 which also gives 8 cal from protein

So an avocado is 92.% calories from fat
4% calories each from protein and carbs

So if you just ate avocados you'd be having a diet of 92% calories from fat with no extra added fat needed at all.

 

[JoeT1]

Hi Joe,
You have just set yourself up for the calorie is not a calorie argument.

But you are right reducing the amount (not calories) should give better results as long as your talking about how the body stores fat and the effects of insulin in this process.

Keto is tapping into the body's ability to burn fat for energy, both stored fat and what you eat. Thus reducing the body's insulin response trying to take what we put in and send it to the liver to turn into fat.

This is where a lot of us do not bother to count calories its not how much you eat its what you eat. Fat triggers the lowest insulin response so you can eat more as a portion than if you did with counting the calories because calorie counting assumes that your body treats everything the same.

To trigger the best response in losing weight the the less you feed your body the more it has to tap into its own fuel reserves Body Fat so counting calories is a good indication as to the amount you put on your plate and some people find that very helpful in controlling the amount they eat.

But the argument works just as well in the opposite direction eat more of the right stuff feel fuller for longer and you don't need to eat as much/ as often.

Haha true, but the good thing here is I am not looking to be on any side in the argument, just to see the opinions and what works for some and not for others. Like my scenario, changing it up may in fact help me.

 

[There is no Spoon]

Like my scenario, changing it up may in fact help me.

I completely agree with you.

I think our body's adapt to the new normal and unless you change things up from time to time you will always get the same results.

 

[Alexandra100]

So if you just ate avocados you'd be having a diet of 92% calories from fat with no extra added fat needed at all.

And I'd throw up, so then all my %s would be reset to zero! I take your point, but it still sounds like far too much fat for me.

 

[Resurgam]

One thing which might be TMI - but I have not noticed it written about, is that a high fat diet going in also means that high fat comes out too - so that compared to the digestion of carbs, where most of it is absorbed, the digestion of fats is far less voracious.

 

[bulkbiker]

And I'd throw up, so then all my %s would be reset to zero! I take your point, but it still sounds like far too much fat for me.

Why would you throw up (or is it because you don't like avocados?)
Maybe I should have chosen another food type although avocados are one of the best...

 

[JoeT1]

I have kept my carbs in the keto range <20g over the last couple of days before trying to add in a little more. Yesterday I felt pretty dreadful at times with what seemed like a migraine. I hadn't been sleeping well either with high alerts, low alerts etc (most of the time compression issues on the sensor). Surprisingly, last night I think was my best nights sleep in a while.

I'm thinking i'm not getting enough food. Even if it means i'll maintain weight (i'm actually kind of happy at my current weight and build), I think i'll add in some more food. I'll keep it clean though, so more courgette, another egg, slim rice at 7 calories per pack and a little low carb sauce. This will hopefully make me feel fuller for longer and not massive calories so not gain weight.

 

[bulkbiker]

I have kept my carbs in the keto range <20g over the last couple of days before trying to add in a little more. Yesterday I felt pretty dreadful at times with what seemed like a migraine. I hadn't been sleeping well either with high alerts, low alerts etc (most of the time compression issues on the sensor). Surprisingly, last night I think was my best nights sleep in a while.

I'm thinking i'm not getting enough food. Even if it means i'll maintain weight (i'm actually kind of happy at my current weight and build), I think i'll add in some more food. I'll keep it clean though, so more courgette, another egg, slim rice at 7 calories per pack and a little low carb sauce. This will hopefully make me feel fuller for longer and not massive calories so not gain weight.

Maybe try adding in some extra protein too? You are exercising a lot so will probably be burning through it. You're pretty young so I really don't think calories will be a problem for you although I have read your other posts and understand to some extent your other concerns.