Can I have your thoughts please?

[Kaz261]

I have a theory as to why I occasionally have lower than expected readings after breakfast at weekends and welcome any thoughts. I might not use the correct terminology etc so please excuse me!

I woke at 7am with the kids and was feeling a little hungry. I didn't check my bs and was feeling tired still so went back to sleep until 8 when I got up for breakfast. I tested before eating and was 5.7 which is a little higher than my usual fasting reading. I had my usual breakfast which as a rule gives me a two hour post meal reading of 6's.

This morning I was beginning to feel hungry again after an hour so I tested and I was only 5.6. This has happened a couple of times at the weekend when I get up later.

Here goes... My theory is that my body releases some glycogen (?) before I get up, which gives me the slightly higher fasting level. I start to produce insulin in response before I even eat. This insulin release continues to deal with my breakfast and because I have RH it overshoots and this is why within the hour I'm starting to feel hungry, irritable and a little shaky?

My Endo explained that my first phase insulin response was slow to get going and that I rely on the second phase to do the job and that's why I have a fast spike and the overshoot.

Could my theory be a possibility and if so, any ideas how to overcome it. I don't want to lose my weekend lie in of I can help it!

 

[Lamont D]

Hi Kaz,

Your theory is quite plausible.
But I don't get what is known as dawn phenomenon. So I couldn't say really.
I don't have an answer to your question on how to stop it either.

I know I can't lie in bed after waking as my body (maybe age related) needs me to move around. And I'm always gagging for a cuppa!
Just can't do lie ins!

You have got a really good explanation of RH. I can't see any holes in that.
Maybe Brun may have suggestions, but I think the knowledge you have now is reaping its reward. You are well and truly getting to know what is happening to you.

If diet is the only treatment we can use, maybe getting into the habit of eating a mouthful of something quick and low carb as soon as you get out of bed.

For once, I'm only guessing!

 

[Kaz261]

Thanks Nosher. I don't get dp every day. Most weekdays my fbg is low 5's but my wake up time and routine is different. In the week I eat a couple of Brazil nuts before getting out of bed and having my shower. Breakfast is usually 40 mins to an hour later. At the weekend I tend to stay in bed til 8 ish and then have breakfast around 8.30 once I've sorted the kids. I think this is why I may be releasing the glycogen.

I do seem to be understanding what's happening to me better, but I still feel at a loss when it comes to doing something about it! It's two steps forward and one back I guess. As long as I'm making progress on the whole then that's what matter.

I'm off to bed now. Hopefully sleep will reset me and tomorrow will be a better day. Thanks again for your response

 

[Brunneria]

I think that anything we do outside our usual routine is going to give us fluctuations and variations.

This morning I had to set an alarm (unusual for a Sunday) and left the volume on my phone too high.

Ye gods! What a shocking wake up from a deep sleep. Left me shaking. That will probably impact my bg for half the day... But that's Ok. It happens.

 

[Kaz261]

Thanks Brun. I hope you get over your alarm call quickly!

If you have any tips or advice on how to prevent or deal with dp, they would be most welcome

I'm being a little reckless this morning and I've tried porridge again for breakfast. Haven't had it for months, but I've made it with half milk and half water and a spoonful of coconut oil to slow down the spike. I'm so fed up of Greek yogurt and berries, I need to try something else. I tend to use eggs at lunchtime as a change from salad (I'm fed up with that too!), so try not to have them for breakfast.

I think I'm just a bit fed up in general. Every day seems like a challenge and I've started feeling dizzy a lot. Just comes on me, a bit like an electric shock/fuzzy type feeling in my head and I feel like I might pass out. I've checked my bs at the time and it's been fine, as is my blood pressure. Any ideas on what this could be also gratefully received!

 

[Kaz261]

My results from my porridge breakfast so far:
5.1 before eating
8.2 after half an hour
5.5 after 1 hour
6.1 after 1.5 hours
5.7 after 2 hours
5.5 after 2.5 hours (appear to be holding steady)

I was feeling quite shaky and anxious around the hour mark after I realised the extent of the drop. Could have been that it made me anxious thinking I was going to hypo or could have been a stress response to the drop. Feeling reasonably ok now.

At this stage I don't think those numbers are much different to those of a normal person. I've seen those kind of spikes in my husband's levels before when testing to compare with mine.

 

[Brunneria]

I thought i had linked my DP thread for you already (cos of the brazil nuts), a week or two back - that says everything i know about it...

If you want to look for it, it is called 'pesky dawn phenomenon'.

 

[Kaz261]

I thought i had linked my DP thread for you already, a week or two back - that says everything i know about it...

If you want to look for it, it is called 'pesky dawn phenomenon'.

I had completely forgotten about that Brun, sorry. I'll have a look for it thanks

 

[Brunneria]

I had completely forgotten about that Brun, sorry. I'll have a look for it thanks

No worries!

 

[Lamont D]

My results from my porridge breakfast so far:
5.1 before eating
8.2 after half an hour.
5.5 after 1 hour
6.1 after 1.5 hours
5.7 after 2 hours
5.5 after 2.5 hours (appear to be holding steady)

I was feeling quite shaky and anxious around the hour mark after I realised the extent of the drop. Could have been that it made me anxious thinking I was going to hypo or could have been a stress response to the drop. Feeling reasonably ok now.

At this stage I don't think those numbers are much different to those of a normal person. I've seen those kind of spikes in my husband's levels before when testing to compare with mine.

That 8.2 would have me worried and I would feel a bit ' not right'!

Dont forget, that you should hypo 'late'! But you should have ate something by the next half hour.

Unfortunately, you are weird and not normal.
I think that you are still thinking normal and you may be have something that won't trigger your insulin overshoot. It will, it never fails.
Like you say, you are feeling a bit down and needed to try something different.
Hoping it doesn't affect you too much.

 

[Kaz261]

I can honestly say I felt fine at 8.2 Nosher. I rarely feel the spike these days. I didn't eat again until just after the 3 hour mark as I wasn't hungry. There was no sign of a hypo and I've felt fine for the rest of the day. Just hoping I don't have any after effects tomorrow.

I know I'm weird and my body no longer does what it's supposed to do, but I do have some very surprising results. I have dropped lower after eating low carb than after eating a meal with carbs where I've spiked higher than I would have liked. It really makes no sense at all!

Like you say I'm just plain weird!

 

[Lamont D]

That's fine then, It just surprised me.
I would notice anything out of my normal zone.
I haven't felt hungry for ages.
I just keep reminding myself to eat every few hours and I'm expecting it now to not have to test, if I feel rough.

 

[Kaz261]

The 8.2 surprised me too. I didn't expect to spike that high in half an hour! I won't be repeating it again until I have a day where I have nothing planned. The potential to hypo was definitely there and that doesn't make me feel comfortable or relaxed. The end result was fine this time, but it could have been very different. I shall be back on the Greek yogurt and berries tomorrow

 

[delmcp]

Kaz have a look at the table I have attached there is limits for BS two hours after eating. Your spike to 8.2 would be normal for every person.
Don't beat yourself up you are doing great work with your diabetes.

 

[Lamont D]

Kaz have a look at the table I have attached there is limits for BS two hours after eating. Your spike to 8.2 would be normal for every person.
Don't beat yourself up you are doing great work with your diabetes.

Hi @delmcp
That would be a great guide but unfortunately Kaz is RH!
The normal rules for diabetics do not apply to us.
Thanks for your post.
Oh, yeah by the way, there are no nice guidelines for us.
There aren't that many of us to be given one!

 

[Linagirl]

I feel anything over 6.5 these days. I start to get warm and my heart speeds up. I can definitely walk myself out of it though which feels good and I like having control. I have also noticed that after a good amount of exercise my levels stay lower generally. I had an upset tummy and had body tremors for first time in ages. Xx

 

[Kaz261]

Kaz have a look at the table I have attached there is limits for BS two hours after eating. Your spike to 8.2 would be normal for every person.
Don't beat yourself up you are doing great work with your diabetes.

Thanks delmcp! I'm well within those non-diabetic levels 99% of the time which is great, but as Nosher has said, I have RH and that complicates matters somewhat! Really appreciate your post though.