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Carbohydrate amounts - a bit unsure what's going on

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by KateS14, Mar 19, 2022.

  1. KateS14

    KateS14 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I've been through the mill a bit recently with my BS levels being hard to control and an infection recently leading to sepsis and serious kidney problems, and a fortnight stay in hospital - and consequently a fortnight eating high carb hospital food. The infection was probably been lurking at a low level for months before reaching noticeable and crisis point. My BS weren't TOO bad whilst in hospital despite this.

    I am not taking any medication at all for the diabetes, and have finished all other drugs that the hospital prescribed for the infection.

    On discharge just over a week ago I have started to very slowly reduce the amount of carbs in my diet again, but I am finding that my BS readings are very good with a much higher intake of carbs than I could tolerate before...

    My question is, could this just be a blip as I readjust or could it be that clearing the infection, my weight loss since September (approx 4.5 stone/30kg) and increased excercise mean that I can now tolerate more carbs than I thought beforehand now that there's no infection skewing things?
     
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    #1 KateS14, Mar 19, 2022 at 10:58 AM
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2022
  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    You are using the right word in "tolerate" but why would you want to?

    Long term exposure to an excess of carbs is likely (in my opinion) to have led to your diagnosis so why play with fire?

    Cut them out and get beck to thriving..
     
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  3. AngelSix60008

    AngelSix60008 · Member

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    As you lose weight you may find you can eat a balanced diet but I'd keep to healthier carbs and beware junk food. Congratulations on the weight loss.
     
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  4. KateS14

    KateS14 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Partly because I'm not sure I WAS thriving... Although it's difficult to tell what was causing what with the infection lurking about, I'm not sure that I was eating enough to keep me healthy, was miserable a lot of the time and was starting to find everything a struggle. If adding back some healthier carbs will improve my quality of life without compromising my BS, I think that would be a good thing for me at the moment.
     
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  5. KateS14

    KateS14 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'll definitely keep to the healthier carbs, and very rarely eat junk food anyway, but it will make a difference to things if I can relax my food routine a bit from where I was (which had become a bit of a struggle, if I'm honest, getting stricter and stricter and not seeing the corresponding results).
     
  6. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    On this site, the anecdotes of those who have put their diabetes into remission, return to "normal" eating that is to say more carbs has a familiar storyline - i.e. reversing the reversal. The exercise will give you more tolerance / clearance. Being a bit picky I am not sure about the word healthy and carbs being together in the same sentence, studies I have seen tend to be neutral, and carbs definitely in the context of recovering from exercise are more inflammatory, whereas increased animal protein has body composition, satiety and fat loss proven benefits.

    Congratulations on your substantial losses.
     
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  7. KateS14

    KateS14 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Fair point, which I take in full. But a little more slack than I was giving myself will help me a lot in daily life at the moment, particularly if I may need to be careful with protein intake in future due to serious kidney problems.
     
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  8. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I have provided some insight into the kidney claims in this response:
    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/back-on-the-horse.187003/#post-2497793

    The bottom line is where is the evidence, when studies and practice show the opposite. The same is said about meat consumption and being causal for diabetes, when the best results show the opposite.
     
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  9. AngelSix60008

    AngelSix60008 · Member

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    I am so frustrated with my levels. Even tomatoes and other fruit kick my darn sugar up. I can't get to six. The best I have done is a 7.4 and I starved myself to get it. I have dropped 22 kg since covid and I was BSL 26 t the start of the month. My friend with type 1 says I should stop starving myself and just take insulin. I am hoping to get my weight down enough to get a reset. Let me know how it works out and the kidney deal can heal. I haven't had those test results since 2005 it took about a year but it healed.
     
  10. MrsA2

    MrsA2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Better for you over all to increase protein and healthy fats than carbs. They are much better nutritionally and will keep you feeling full for longer so no more miseries.
     
  11. MrsA2

    MrsA2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Starving yourself is not good. Just eat meat, fish, eggs, soem green veg and a bit of dairy until you are full, then stop until the next meal. Try not to snack but eat plenty when you do eat a meal.
    And have patience, it can take several months for levels to come down. Ignore your roommate who has a totally different condition.
     
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  12. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    This makes sense to me.
    Losing weight can improve your insulin sensibility by a lot, and infection often raises BG. So if you've had a low level infection for a while, it may well be you'll see healthy levels on more carbs than before.

    Some of our members are very strict on themselves, choosing a particular diet over following their meter. If this works for them, that's perfectly fine, but for many T2's it's not necessary to go close to no carb to get healthy numbers.

    If this is the case for you, and you feel better with some more carbs than before, this sounds like the right approach for you!
     
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  13. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    There's a lot of room between eating hardly any carbs and a 'normal' diet.
    Carefully upping the carbs a little, following your meter is not the same as blindly going back to a carb heavy 'normal' diet.
     
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  14. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Sorry but quite a lot of the most successful members here follow a very strict diet because that is precisely what their meters have shown is the most beneficial way of eating for them.

    Almost all T2 members who increase their carbs from the levels where they have had most success usually report higher than desired blood sugar levels and as @Mbaker says less than desirable results.

    (3 words deleted by EllieM to comply with forum ethos)
     
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    #14 bulkbiker, Mar 19, 2022 at 11:08 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2022
  15. VashtiB

    VashtiB Type 2 · Moderator
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    Well I'm going to put my hand up as a person who has gone very low carb and possibly (probably) lower carb than needed for my blood sugar levels to go back to 'normal' levels. My HbA1C is now in the middle of the normal range. I keep very low carb because that's what I find easier. I love carbs and find I crave them less if I am very low carb. There is also a lot less negotiating wit my brain. The carbs I really love do not fall into the 'healthy carbs' my old doctor prefers.

    If I was less of a carbaholic and also not al all or nothing person I could probably eat more carbs than I like. The only problem is it still wouldn't be enough to satisfy me. I worked out very early in the day when I was actually contemplating not eating anything at all with carbs so I could have a minty (a lolly with. 7g of carbs) once I thought about my mindset I realised how totally bonkers I was being. I knew I'd want another and another - that was just lay madness. Going very low carb means I don't play that game with my brain and stops me obsessing over what I can have.

    We all have to make the decisions that work for us. For me that means keeping very low carb. For the poster it may be that she can tolerate a higher level of carbs than previously. All I would recommend is to make sure you keep testing and keep an eye on your HbA1C.

    Good luck.
     
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  16. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be helpful to be more specific as the headroom and choices I would say are minimal in the context of remission / good control. Are we talking chips / fries, baked potatoes / mash, rice, bread, cakes, milk chocolate, cookies, tropical fruits. Or broccoli, greens, nuts and similar.

    There are overwhelming anecdotes, where people list what they are eating with high numbers such as cereal, attempts to make oats fit or off the shelf bread - it does not work in general. Many are not prepared / in a position to exercise to cover the glucose hit. No other animal purposefully eats damaging foods; we have the science to show that most carbs create a stress reaction and residue that leads to complications.
     
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  17. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a well balanced and similarly lived position by many. I would highlight the terms like "tolerate" and "work for us" have too much variability and self definition. I example this by there being clinical damage at 7.8 mmol/L, yet some happily recommend to spike into the 9's. My view is that our liver, pancreas, heart, arteries and general health should be prioritised over concoctions that are generally engineered by scientists at the bliss point.
     
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  18. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

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    It's well known that weight loss can induce remission/partial remission of diabetes in some people. If your blood glucose continues to be within range at a higher level of carb intake, and you are not someone who feels they have 'carb addiction' there is no reason not to continue at that higher level of carbs, particularly as you feel it will make life easier for you. Caveats are: keep monitoring blood glucose levels and bodyweight regularly in case the situation changes, and try to eat your carbs as whole foods rather than 'junk foods'.
     
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  19. KateS14

    KateS14 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you all for your replies, I really appreciate it. It's really helpful to read and consider the different opinons.

    As I AM currently eating to my meter, and am seeing some of the beat BS readings I've seen for months, I think that I will continue where I am, with carefully considered carb choices, albeit with intake levels higher than pre infection. I don't consider myself a carboholic, and am not 'all or nothing' when it comes to them, so can always adjust down again if the meter shows at any point that's needed.
     
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  20. Ronancastled

    Ronancastled Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I come at this from a different angle.
    So we now know through the Taylor Direct follow up study that the successful candidates regained their 2nd phase insulin response at 12 months post remission.
    https://diabetesjournals.org/diabet...OR-Remission-of-Type-2-Diabetes-for-Two-Years
    In losing all the weight you may have "reversed" your diabetes.
    If that's the case you belong to a very lucky subset of newly diagnosed T2s who have achieved this outcome by dramatic weight loss & lifestyle change.
    You are about 6 months into your full beta cell recovery so don't go poking the bear just yet.
    As @bulkbiker says, why would you want to, set yourself a daily carb limit that's keeps your meter happy & enjoy your new found health.
    Well done.
     
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