Carbohydrates

[primmers]

A couple of questions for those of you who limit your intake of carbs to help control blood sugar levels.

First, how did you arrive at the daily amount? The chart on the side of the oatibix box talks about a guideline daily amount of 90g "total sugars" which I'm taking to mean carbs. Obviously that's for a non diabetic. Elsethread cugila said he normally limited carbs to 60-80g (though was temporarily down to <40g) Did you just start at about 90g a day and work your way down until the blood sugar readings settled at acceptable levels?

Secondly, do you spread the carbs evenly across the day, an equal amount at every meal? Or do you load certain meals depending on your body's pattern of blood sugar highs and lows?

Thirdly, is there a reliable carbohydrate values web site? I got the Collins Gem Carb Counter but have already found one mistake - I got all excited as it said a cream cracker only had 0.7g carb but when I looked on the side of the cream cracker packet it gave a carb value of 5.7 per cracker.

How sad is that - getting excited at the thought of a cream cracker :lol:

Looking at the carb values on things I must have been eating way more than 90g a day. I'm a veggie, mostly wholefoods, marginally overweight and always had trouble losing weight. Followed dietary advice about brown bread and brown rice and cereals etc but I'm now thinking that that must all have contributed to where I am now. D'oh!

 

[viviennem]

Low-carbing is more of a problem for vegetarians, I'm afraid. Rose Elliott has written a good low-carb vegetarian cookbook - can't remember the name of it, but it will be on Amazon somewhere. Or you local health food shop may know.

If you can tolerate fat you have more options - eggs, cheese, fish if you eat it. Also all the non-starchy vegetables. One of my summer favourites is ratatouille with cheese. Unfortunately your 'staple' foods - rice, pasta etc, however wholesome, are full of carbs.

Cugila (Ken) recommends the 'Calorie, Carb & Fat Bible' which you can get from Amazon. The 2011 edition is out now.

I use the Atkins Induction phase which gives me about 25 grams of carb a day. Those carbs all come from vegetables, so are suitable for vegetatians despite the meat content of the diet. My version is listed on the Low Carb Diet forum as 'Viv's Diet'. I went straight on to it - no gradual reduction - and found that the easiest way was to clear out everything I couldn't eat and only have allowed foods in the house. Easy if your single, not if you have others to feed!

If I were you I'd get the Rose Elliott book and see what she recommends. There will be other people on here who follow the low-carb vegetarian diets who I'm sure will help you.

Good luck!

Viv

 

[Squadron Leader]

Primmers,

The GDA (Guideline Daily Allowance) for carbs is 230g, of which the allowance for sugars is 90g. By sugars I think they mean fast acting carbs (glucose, fructose, lactose, dextrose, etc.), not just sugar (sucrose).

How many grams of carbs you have per day is up to you and what your body can cope with.

There is a thread on the low-carb Diabetes diet section of the site that should give you more of an idea. It's called "Low Carb Diet - A Newbies Guide".

Hope this helps a little.

Best Wishes,
Klair

 

[Patch]

What does a GDA of FOOD look like? 90g of sugar, and a further 140g of starchy carbs looks like a lot. Add into this the GDA for fat and protein, and I bet there is a lot more food than many of us around here eat in a day...

 

[AndyS]

Oh I dunno.

140g of Carbs would be around 7 slices of thick sliced brown bread.
Or 3 quarters of a regular dominos pizza.
More or less at any rate.

When I started counting in ernest I was shocked at how high some things where and how low others are. To think.. I used to be able to eat a whole pizza and side all by my lonesome. :shock:

 

[Sid Bonkers]

First, how did you arrive at the daily amount?

As a T2 diet only you need to work out what various meals do to your blood glucose primmers, no one can set an amount of carbs for you, you need to work that out by testing, testing and testing again.

Simply put test your blood glucose (bg) level then eat your meal then after two hours test again if your bg is not returning to the pre meal level then you need to cut back some carbs and then test that meal again the next time you eat it.

Do this again and again for every type of food and meal you eat and soon you will get an idea of what you can eat and what you can't, just cut back on the portion sizes until your bg is within the NICE regulation range, if you find it impossible to reach these figures then you need to see about taking some form of medication, not every T2 can get by on diet only but if you can then great, its all trial and error

 

[sue32]

Primmers.....I also just cut out starchy carbs straight away, no decrease. This includes bread, pasta, potatoes and rice. It has made an enormous difference to my life. Up to now I have lost 6 stone and feel soooo much better. I no longer need insulin, but I do still inject a small amount of Glargine at night. My lymphoedema has all but disappeared and I no longer have the chronic diarrhoea I used to. All my 'good' carbs come from fruit and veg, although I try not to eat more than 2 pieces of fruit a day. I have adapted many recipes to fit my diet and I am now able to exercise a bit more......as much as my osteoarthritis will allow. It doesn't suit everybody; some people think I'm mad not to have roasties with my Sunday dinner, but to be honest, I don't really miss them. So good luck.

 

[Squadron Leader]

Patch,

140g of starchy carbs may not be as much as you think.

For example, one slice (44g) of Hovis Granary contains 17.5g of carbs and a 75g serving of pasta contains 50g. I was just pointing out what the GDA (for an adult) for carbs actually was.

Personally, for a reduced carb diet, I would start with 120g of carbs per day and work from there, up or down as necessary. Others may want to start from a much lower level.

Klair

 

[primmers]

Thanks everyone for all that (low carb) food for thought. I've got the Carb Bible and Rose Elliot on order (though I was a bit worried that the sample pages saw her recommending a sweetener called Stevia that "is not available in the UK but can be bought over the internet" - is there maybe a safety reason it can't be bought in the UK?) I can't do Atkins type stuff with fats as I have high blood lipids but your diet looks interesting viv and I'm glad it's working for you.

I have cut out bread and rice and most spuds, though some potato did creep into the lentil and celeriac soup I made at lunch time but as my 2 hour reading was 8.6 I know to be firmer next time.

Thanks also to Klair for pushing me in the direction of the Diet Section of the site which I had managed not to see, no, not a diabetes complication, just inate dimness :lol:

 

[dib]

Apparently stevia is banned in this country but widely available throughout the rest if the world. It has been in use as a sweetener in Japan for over 40 years. I use it in liquid form and find it an excellent carb free replacement sweetener. There is a good description of it on wikipedia.

 

[CollieBoy]

As well as liquid or solid stevia you can purchase seeds/plants and just take off a few leaves to sweeten food or drink

 

[primmers]

Thanks for the Stevia info. Do any of you use Agave Nectar, and how do you find it impacts on your blood sugars?

OK, about monitoring. Somehwere on this site I read a recommendation about pre meal blood sugar levels. I have read so much in here over the past few days (and what an education it's been - thanks guys) that I can't remember where it was.

So, is the upper level for pre food blood sugar the same as fasting, ie up to 7, or the same as the 2 hour post food blood sugar, ie up to 8.5? I know the lower the better but wanted to get a handle on how acceptable the readings I've got so far are.

 

[pms543]

So, is the upper level for pre food blood sugar the same as fasting, ie up to 7, or the same as the 2 hour post food blood sugar, ie up to 8.5? I know the lower the better but wanted to get a handle on how acceptable the readings I've got so far are.

I found this advice to be so helpful:

Fasting Under 6
One hour after meals Under 8
Two hours after meals Under 6.5

or for those in the mg/dl parts of the world:


FBG under 110
One hour after meals under 140
Two hours after meals under 120


And that can be found Jennifers Advice

Hope that helps

 

[Patch]

Has anybody got a decent (quality/price) supplier for liquid Stevia? I'd like to get hold of some.

PM me if you have a link.

Cheers,
-Pat.

 

[noblehead]

primmers,

Adults with type 2 should aim for 4-7 before meals and no more than 8.5 two hours after meals, both you and your healthcare team should discuss a individual target range suited to your own circumstances.

Nigel

 

[Sid Bonkers]

And that can be found at Jennifers Advice

I dont know who Jennifer is but I personally think her advice is flawed, there is absolutely no point in testing 1 and 2 hours after eating if you dont test before. Only by testing before and 2 hours (average) after can you know how that meal has affected your bg. In my opinion you are better off following the advice given here at Diabetes.co.uk

And the current NICE recommendations for bg levels are:

Fasting (waking).......between 4 - 7 mmol/l........(Type 1 & 2)
2 hrs after meals......no more than 8.5 mmol/l.....( Type 2)

2hrs after meals....... no more than 9 mmol/l ......(Type 1)

There seems no point in using any other guidelines than those in use by health professionals, any other numbers are just one persons idea of what they would like to achieve, OK its fine to have your own targets but confusing to post them here as a baseline.

 

[primmers]

With one exception since I started testing my pre food blood sugars have been under 8.5, mostly nicely under 7.

The one exception was when I had had a carby snack mid afternoon and the pre evening meal bloods were up at 11. I chose not to eat, tested again mid evening, when they were down to 6, so I had a light, not very carby snack. 2 hours later they were 9 and I went to bed. Next morning the fasting level was 6.9.

I can see there's a lot of info I need to gather yet before I can safely predict what I need to do...

 

[pms543]

I suggest you read the whole of the article Syd before making such a comment.... :shock:

MANY MANY diabetics have proved her advice attainable and more than that their weight loss HUGELY reduced.

Also, its worth a mention that while the NICE guidelines are adhered to and used by health professionals, what they don't tell us is, that we all have a point at which a certain food will cause our BG to peak and unless we test, test, test (jennifers advice) we won't find out and in the long term prevent complications...(and I do not profess to know too much as am learning myself)

I actually didnt post the whole article for copy right reasons but she advocates testing BEFORE foods OF COURSE! and then that advice follows.

I have no wish to confuse anyone and apologise if anyone got confused without reading the whole of that particular LINK.

And that can be found at Jennifers Advice

I dont know who Jennifer is but I personally think her advice is flawed, there is absolutely no point in testing 1 and 2 hours after eating if you dont test before. Only by testing before and 2 hours (average) after can you know how that meal has affected your bg. In my opinion you are better off following the advice given here at Diabetes.co.uk

And the current NICE recommendations for bg levels are:

Fasting (waking).......between 4 - 7 mmol/l........(Type 1 & 2)
2 hrs after meals......no more than 8.5 mmol/l.....( Type 2)

2hrs after meals....... no more than 9 mmol/l ......(Type 1)

There seems no point in using any other guidelines than those in use by health professionals, any other numbers are just one persons idea of what they would like to achieve, OK its fine to have your own targets but confusing to post them here as a baseline.