Cgm issue

[searley]

I had cgm for a couple of weeks and had very poor accuracy so returned it.

I was very careful about calibration times so that I had fasted in the morning and the evening one was before my evening meal so that my levels were not rising or falling

Advanced Theraputics are saying I have lied about the inaccuracy just to try and get a refund, I also returned 2 sensors still sealed never removed from the box which they also refuse to refund.

I was wondering I know paracetamol causes accuracy issues.. I started Degludec/tresiba. The new extra long acting insulin just before I got the G4... Could there be something in the insulin causing accuracy issues???


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[Engineer88]

I dont know about the insulin Searley and Im also not sure about advanced theraputics. Im not aware of many people having issues with accuracy like yourself so I guess it must be an external factor. are you on any other meds?

 

[searley]

I'm on statins, and aspirin...


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[iHs]

JH should issue you with a refund unless the terms of sale mean that a fault has to occur for the refund to be issued. I would contact INPUT regarding this as AT often attend INPUT meetings across the UK where pump companies display their pumps to the visiting public.


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[searley]

I have contacted dexcom USA to see if they have had similar issues I will email INPUT to see what they think

I can understand no refund for the 2 used sensors, but I expect a refund for the sealed ones

I also don't expect to lose £150 for 'wear and tear' on the meter


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[CarbsRok]

I'm curious to know why anyone would or could expect a refund for goods that were not faulty.
If JH has said he analysed your data then he did. Why should JH have to cover the cost of goods that can not be sold at full price or even at all now just because you decide you don't want the equipment?.

May I also ask why you bought the whole kit up front instead of having a trial first? Which would as I understand it would have been just the cost of the sensors. Having the trial kit and buying the whole kit brand new are two separate issues.
Also do you think it's fair to run down Advanced T when they have no right of reply?

 

[searley]

I'm curious to know why anyone would or could expect a refund for goods that were not faulty.
If JH has said he analysed your data then he did. Why should JH have to cover the cost of goods that can not be sold at full price or even at all now just because you decide you don't want the equipment?.

May I also ask why you bought the whole kit up front instead of having a trial first? Which would as I understand it would have been just the cost of the sensors. Having the trial kit and buying the whole kit brand new are two separate issues.
Also do you think it's fair to run down Advanced T when they have no right of reply?

As I've said, the reading were not accurate, did not tally with what my other meter ready - not even close

Prior to purchase I spoke to both the rep, and Amanda at AT and was told nothing about availability if a trial unit.

The main point is, IT DID NOT GIVE CORRECT READINGS... But they simply say I have lied..

If it worked I would have happily kept it and still been using it


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[CarbsRok]

If you expected the cgm to be spot on all the time then no it's not accurate, but then it doesn't claim to be. It's for trends only you must not rely on it for clinical decisions. As JH has had the data analysed then it's your word against his. It's not his fault if you haven't understood how to use or interpret your results is it?
Again I find it hard to believe you were not given the choice of a trial first as everyone is and has been offered one.
As to also expecting be refunded for unused sensors which no one knows if you stored correctly then dream on. JH would be breaking the law and also failing in his duty of care if he tried to sell them on.

 

[searley]

If you expected the cgm to be spot on all the time then no it's not accurate, but then it doesn't claim to be. It's for trends only you must not rely on it for clinical decisions. As JH has had the data analysed then it's your word against his. It's not his fault if you haven't understood how to use or interpret your results is it?
Again I find it hard to believe you were not given the choice of a trial first as everyone is and has been offered one.
As to also expecting be refunded for unused sensors which no one knows if you stored correctly then dream on. JH would be breaking the law and also failing in his duty of care if he tried to sell them on.

I didn't expect the results to be spot on, but was told by AT to expect them to be within 1 or 2mmol, which often they were not, as for trends that where the problem came in.. The graph was hardly moving making it look like my reading were steady when infact it did not correspond with what I actually had. Like I say it showed virtually no rise after a meal

I most certainly was not offered a trial, 10 min discussion with the rep on the phone

I then email AT said I was interested in the G4 they emailed the price list
I emailed back the vat exemption said I wanted the item.. They emailed and told me the amount to pay

I have witnesses that the meter alarmed saying I was below 3.9 and did a test to find I was 9

I consider the difference between 3.9 and 9 to be quite large and not acceptable... Therefor the item was returned as not suitable

But as I say the worst thing is for them to write me a letter that actually says "you have lied". That's going to make any honest person angry



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[Chas C]

I've been using a Dexcom G4 for about 18 months now. The first few days on the first sensor were very inaccurate but I persevered, calibrated at every meal and found it was then fine. For some reason I saw this on my first few sensors but now it does not appear to happen with a new sensor, not sure why.

Most of the time I'm within 2 mmols, I always test manually at meal times and if Dexcom says I'm high or low - if its wrong then I recalibrate. It does sometimes exceed 2 mmols but only maybe a few times in seven days.

I also reset mine and keep them in for around 21-28 days too.

I took mine on a trial first with two sensors (I think) then after first week I bought it.

Not nice to even imply you lied to them.

 

[searley]

I've been using a Dexcom G4 for about 18 months now. The first few days on the first sensor were very inaccurate but I persevered, calibrated at every meal and found it was then fine. For some reason I saw this on my first few sensors but now it does not appear to happen with a new sensor, not sure why.

Most of the time I'm within 2 mmols, I always test manually at meal times and if Dexcom says I'm high or low - if its wrong then I recalibrate. It does sometimes exceed 2 mmols but only maybe a few times in seven days.

I also reset mine and keep them in for around 21-28 days too.

I took mine on a trial first with two sensors (I think) then after first week I bought it.

Not nice to even imply you lied to them.

The fact that they say I have made false claims of in accuracy and acted in bad faith is the most annoying thing, the money is not the main issue as in all honesty the £370 I'm down us easily covered by about 2-3 hours over time

But making me out to be a liar is a personal attack that I'm not going to let go!

I willing to accept that the unit is not at fault but some strange external factor has made it inaccurate for me..

I'm willing to accept that they won't refund the sensors, but they said nothing if this before return if they had I would have kept them and given them to someone with a meter rather than just throw the money away!

The letter they sent also said "I am glad to give you a refund as this will sever our business relationship"

Which makes it sound as though I have been a major pain in the ass, which is far from the truth.. I find the whole thing totally unprofessional




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[Chas C]

If I'd been treated as you have I would go to the main man for Dexcom in the US and send him the correspondance you have so he's aware of the way you have been treated. In the UK Dexcom use a distributor they don't act directly themselves.

 

[searley]

If I'd been treated as you have I would go to the main man for Dexcom in the US and send him the correspondance you have so he's aware of the way you have been treated. In the UK Dexcom use a distributor they don't act directly themselves.

Actually I have already contacted Dexcom direct and they are going to speak to AT about it, they have a copy of the letter and photos of the meter in use




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[donnellysdogs]

I had a Navigator CGM that was giving inaccurate low readings. I took this matter up with MHRA. Abbott have now recalled the strips...

However, I had a real blood test done via hospital recently and at the same time as they withdrew my blood I did a blood test on the meter of my pump. My pump reads hugely above the real blood coming out of my vein....so there is also a huge inaccuracy with my pump meter reading too high!!!

My cgm was saying I was low constantly, my pump said I was 5.6 upward. My cgm went back to the hospital as it also imploded and stopped working.

Personally, it may be a case of being both machines being inaccurate, but both are falling within the 20% inaccuracy markers that are allowed, so they may well say that the cgm isnt faulty....




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[donnellysdogs]

Lieing on cgms can make them inaccurate. Bed duvets can too when they are on top of the cgm.

I took photos of mine actually mounted in my skin etc to try and prove they were fixed in properly....

The Abbott Staff were just as bad as the peoe you are having to deal with, this is why I reported the faults to the MHRA. However, this will alarmsome people.... The MHRA do not test equipment... They ask the Company (in my case Abbott) to investigate and test themselves...that astounded me.. As no way is that independent.


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[Spiker]

Normal meters are no more or less reliable [than] CGMs, so if they disagree it's hard to say which one is wrong. What the CGM tries to do is to track towards the readings given by your meter, but you do need to 'train' the CGM and this takes a while. You will get some loony readings in the first week or two but this settles down. If you stick with it over time it matches closer and closer. When you change sensors it goes off a little again but soon tracks back. I don't know this for sure but I think the CGM is learning your reactions to your meter over time, not just in the lifetime of one sensor. It seems that way to me because it keeps getting better.

The manual is very clear that you are not to make treatment decisions based on a CGM reading but must double check with a meter reading first.

The anomalies you are reporting are bad and I would be upset with them too. But I did have a few wacky results like that early on, and they do settle down. Maybe persist with it. The CGM starts off as 'interesting', and as time goes by it becomes more and more useful.

 

[donnellysdogs]

My experience got worse and worse with cgm. My hospital now do not give them out on a long term basis. I would never have a cgm again. Initially I thought brilliant with cgm.. But Abbott Navigator was not good and put me off a cgm forever. I would rather rely upon my own senses and control..


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[CarbsRok]

You do have to remember that it's searley's word against JH's so it's not good that everyone is running down JH and his company. JH can quite easily check the data provided by the cgm and searley's input via his finger stick test. Now as far as I understand it the sensor can be up to 20% out.
I will play devils advocate and ask was the cgm purchased with the sole intention of using it to sort basals out as a new insulin was being used, then expecting JH to refund in full after the relevant information was acquired? I'm not saying this is the case but if it was, why didn't searley just have the 2 sensor trial package and be done with it?

 

[Spiker]

Deleted by me as I can't find the Delete button.