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Changing my diet from 95% meat to vegan oil free!!

Discussion in 'Vegetarian Diet Forum' started by Veryanxious, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. Veryanxious

    Veryanxious Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I have decided to go back to my traditional Indain diet with removal of oil and diary.
    I reason is i think i couldn't gain insulin sensitivity from low carb high fat diet of one year even after lossing weight.
    Anyone here who is vegan and has good control over blood sugar with any meds.?
     
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  2. Little Bird

    Little Bird · Well-Known Member

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    I can completely understand that. If you don't eat meat for cultural, religious, ethics or any other reason and then advised to eat meat for your diabetes and health then that can bring about a real inner conflict that unfortunately some, including medical professionals, are often unable to empathise with. Culture religion and heritage are important things.

    In any case it sounds like you have given this a lot of thought and are not happy where you are now. Of course there are many ways of following a vegan diet, you be low carb, high carb or anywhere in between, as we have seen in the testimonials here. Obviously keep a check on your bg levels as you experiment, don't mean to insult your intelligence by that sorry.

    Good luck I hope it all works out for you and happy experimenting. Embrace and enjoy your heritage!
     
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  3. Veryanxious

    Veryanxious Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, i will. Its been very difficult to eat meat with family tradition being vegetarian and i have been struggling with weight along with not understanding the long term impact of that much protien. It was total opposite of what i used to eat.
    Yes lots of thought and one year of meat heavy diet. Will see how this turns out. Thanks..
     
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  4. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    Do you mean without meds, veryanxious ? I don't believe you take any meds for diabetes of any sort?

    My only comment, aside from wishing you well would be to wonder how you will get enough nourishment if you are also going oil-free?

    I know you have lost a lot of weight, beyond what you wanted to. I have a concern in trying to avoid oils, your calorific totals, per day and cumulatively might plummet.

    Good luck with whatever you try. We each have to find our own place.
     
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  5. Veryanxious

    Veryanxious Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the suggest, i am planning to include nuts and seeds like almonds ,and flax to hwlp me out with fats
     
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  6. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    You may have been eating too much protein, as that can have a significant impact on blood sugars. Ask me how I know... breaking a fast, I ate a can of tuna with (added by me) a really good quality olive oil. My BG shot up three points! I tried it again during a non fasting day, and got the same result. I then looked up the Insulin Index, mentioned in a book I was reading, which shows a value for the insulin response to certain foods. Tuna was very high.

    In Keto Clarity, Jimmy Moore also says that protein should be limited in order to get into ketosis, and having too much for your personal tolerance level can make you a glucose burner rather than a fat burner - in other words, spoils the work you're doing with low carbing.

    With your cultural heritage in mind, it could be that you have a low tolerance level and the amount of protein you were having was too much for you to benefit from low carb. The answer, he says, is to raise fat to a higher percentage of your diet than protein, which depending on your tolerance could be as much as 80%.

    That will be difficult on a vegetarian diet, but not impossible - low carb could be difficult too. However, you are looking to get into a happy place with both diet and health, which includes mental health, so you are right to give something else a try.

    Do you take multivitamins and minerals? With your health issues you may find that of great benefit. It takes a while, a couple of months perhaps, but if there is a deficiency you will notice a difference. I had very deep horizontal ridges in my thumbnails, which GPs generally found interesting but unimportant. When I began fasting for longer than 24 hours, I started taking a multivit with minerals every day. The ridges disappeared! I have no idea why, but I can only put it down to the multivit and minerals, as they have not reappeared since I lapsed in the summer and my diet has been erratic since then.

    Good luck to you!
     
  7. Veryanxious

    Veryanxious Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Hi, thanks for the input. But i never had BG issue with low carb. They were perfect however high protien i ate. But the prob started when i started having shooting pain in neck. I had been having on amd off since 6 months but recently it was consistent. Second worry was the moment i switched from low carb to high my bg would shoot up. As per my understanding it should not happen when i have been low carb amd weight is falling. I should atleat become somewhat tolerant towards carbs. Third point was that i have been eating meat and have no idea how it would impact my health, how much should i eat and when to stop, because i belong to carbs heavy community with no consumption of meat prior to one year.
    This is an experiment too, vegan indain diet. I might come back to low carb meat based as it was controlling my blood sugar just fine.
    I have also been doing lots of researching and one of theory which I want to test is that fat cause cells to block glucose and low carb/ keto is just a treatment for diabetes it never reverses it. May be very long term. But i don't see it happening in near my future as i just can't keep low carb always, family functions and get to gathers become very very difficult being carb heavy society, due to which i am can't stay properly low carb either and cause me more harm then benefits.
    I wish it was not so difficult, i thought i would be able to swim against society and watch my health but seems like impossible. Really wish this was not the case.
    Anyway i am looking forward to this not very hopeful though but have to try my best in this as well.
     
  8. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there's any diet that can permanently reverse diabetes, so in a sense all diets are treatment, not cures. I can't comment on the idea of fat blocking carbs, but my understanding is that a ketogenic diet switches the body from glucose burning to fat burning, and this is desirable for many reasons for me as a type 2 with a lot of body fat.

    It's hard enough for me to get into ketosis without social pressure due to what I refer to as my addiction to carbs - many people at work and some in my family have taken up fasting and low carb or keto, in their own ways, after seeing the effects of fasting (which put me in ketosis for at least some of the time) on me, but I continually lapse so the benefits are limited. I am still much healthier than I was a year ago, though. I've managed to do a ketogenic diet so far this week, with ketones always over 0.5 so I'm encouraged to give it another go.

    You didn't mention whether you've tried multivitamins with minerals?
     
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  9. Veryanxious

    Veryanxious Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    No, i didn't try multivitamins. I once tried mineral drops during low carb and it gave me weird feeling in heart. I will include sprouts and shoots of seeds, they are very nutritious and low in carbs as well.
    I don't have no body fat to loose. I do IF too, whether its a low carb or high fat doesn't matter. I start with vegetables or nuts for breaking fast.
    Yes at present no diet cures diabetes but as per my experience with keto/carbs it is not improving either. As i can very well control my hunger/eating patterns i do IF on low fat vegan and keeping calorie deficit to give room to increase insulin sensitivity. I am attaching a link perhaps you can get the idea i am speaking about-
    https://thenutrivore.blogspot.com/2019/10/sugar-doesnt-cause-diabetes-and-ketosis.html?m=1
    For me it was truly calorie access which caused sugar problems, i was eating even when i was not hungry. I was eating with goal to get fat.
     
  10. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I can't really make a useful comment about the link, as I don't have the relevant knowledge of cellular biology. I'll keep an open mind though.

    I think the best any of us can do is learn from those who make the most sense to us, and then apply that knowledge to our own experimentation with our diets and lifestyle.

    In my case an excess of calories is certainly (at least in no small part) to blame but I do believe that it is the proliferation of processed carbohydrates that is to blame for the undeniably linked rise in T2 diabetes.

    I'm most convinced by the success of Jason Fung's patients and the numerous people on this forum that fat is insulin neutral, and what keeps us (well, me anyway) ill is the return to carbs.

    I'm convinced that a ketogenic diet is healthy because of the experiences of people here, the fact that it is an evolutionary adaptation for humans and the reading I've done.

    But maybe you're right, and it's not healthy for everyone - I do wish you all the very best with your chosen path.
     
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  11. Quinn1066

    Quinn1066 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    A vegetarian or vegan diet low in fat, high in fiber and plant food seems to work for select people, dr neal barnard seems to have published many papers where people have at least gotten control over type 2 with a vegan whole food, no processed food diet. The Mastering Diabetes program also goes the same route. I guess it's whatever works for the individual and suits their ethical/religious cultural views.
     
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  12. Veryanxious

    Veryanxious Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Yup, i am looking for something i can make a lifestyle. This is also an experiment, i am not sure how it will turn out.
     
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  13. Walking Girl

    Walking Girl Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I’m a vegetarian, but eat only limited dairy and eggs. Most of my days are vegan. And, yes, this works well for me. A1c’s right around 5.0% for the past 2 years. (Diagnosed at 11.8% so yikes!) The plan I adopted was Dr. Furhman. He doesn’t worry about fat from whole food sources - nuts/seeds, olives, avocados, coconut, etc but discourages added oils. When I track macros I end up around 45% fat, 35% carbs, 20% protein. As to whether or not a plan like Dr. Barnards which keeps all fats to a very minimum is better, I really can’t say. But for me, holding saturated fats very low and eating plenty of whole foods without worry about the specific macronutrient ratio is more pleasurable.

    I enjoy Indian food, which no doubt is a highly Americanized version, so forgive me for using the wrong terms, but what I end up doing is making curries- I favor those with a rainbow of colors- the various daal dishes, the various green veg dishes, like saag tofu (you can use a milk substitute as the cream), and skip the rice and go very light on breads, or just skip them. I also keep white potatoes to a minimum. And when I’m making the dishes at home, I honestly just prefer simple preparations now. Steamed spinach, topped with white beans, a dash of sauce and sesame seeds? Delicious.

    ~ no meds, just to be clear.
     
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    #13 Walking Girl, Jan 11, 2020 at 4:02 PM
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  14. Little Bird

    Little Bird · Well-Known Member

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    Your diet sounds delicious @Walking Girl ! I eat a very similar diet to yours but I'm too lazy to track macros etc. Keep a close eye on bg levels and have remained in remission for about six months now, so must be working for me.
     
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  15. Veryanxious

    Veryanxious Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    That is both interesting and i am glad to know that vegan diet works. I can make indian food daily without any potato or paneer stuff. I used eat green veggie(dry subzi, can be made with any vegetable) with some dal(lots like moong, tur, masoor, urad, rajma, chickpeas) which can be made with no oil and roti (this can be made with coconut flour and very little wheat ). There are various options you can use to make roti other then wheat.
    You can use jowar, barley, jau, chana these flour mix with coconut flour/almond to make it gluten free and very low glycemic.
    I will be starting it from tomorrow as i am on vacation and having junk right now. No idea where my sugar is but i will start with this tomorrow.
    I was never a rice person. I never had rice more then twice in probably a year. I am dal person. I hope it turns out successful for me as well like it has been for you. Wish me luck.
     
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  16. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    Barley isn't a gluten free option, I'm afraid. It's low gluten, but not free of it.

    If you are trying to live GF, it might be best to sidestep barley.
     
  17. Veryanxious

    Veryanxious Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you so much for the info, i didn't know it was not gluten free. Will check for other grains also.
     
  18. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    That's fine. When going gluten-free, i was horrified where it lurks.
     
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  19. Quinn1066

    Quinn1066 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It's nice to see how a vegetarian manages type 2. My current macros for the past week have been 40% fat, 40% carbs, 20 protein. Mostly vegetarian, just finishing up canned sardines in the house because I am poor and hate wasting food and eating a lot of pro-biotic foods, yoghurt, saurkraut and tempeh. I eat no potatoes, or rice. But do eat oats, sprouted bread, and going to re-introduce lentils tonight. When first diagnosed I was basically vegetarian for the first 6 months as a tactic to get into remission, it seems that I feel better not eating meat, but still eating eggs, mostly low fat no **** added diary With the occasional full fat cheese and whole milk coffee. It's hard to avoid social situations in which one orders coffee and whole milk is a treat, as I use soy milk at home.
     
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  20. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    How do you get your 40% fat?
     
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