Confused - again!

hornplayer

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983
I'm a newly diagnosed type 2 on Metformin. I'm trying to get my morning BG reading down, as, at the moment it's higher than both my before meals and 2hrs after meal ones! ( - I don't get that by the way??)
So, this morning I took my reading, - 8.7, then spent 35 min walking on my treadmill. ( before breakfast ) my reading 10min after the exercise was 9.1! Any one know why? And what I can do to make it go in the right direction???
 
Messages
6,107
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
If you have not eaten for a long time your own body will supply sugar. Some people call it the dawn phenomenon and some people call it a liver dump. Most people don't eat overnight so you will most often experience this first thing in the morning. You should not leave great big gaps between meals during the day either.

I recently discovered something that works for me concerning the fasting level. Although I am not a low/no carb person I do note when I eat carbs. I have them with most meals although I don't go mad quantity wise. One evening I had a carb free snack and the next morning my fasting level was lower than usual.

I have repeated this a number of times now. Just don't eat carbs in the evening. It could be something that just works for me but I would be happy with that. It won't be difficult for you to see if it works for you too.
 
Messages
6,107
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
5.6
5.4
5.5
5.4
5.4
5.3
5.2
4.8

Here are some recent fasting readings which happen when I don't eat carbs the evening before.
 

hornplayer

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983
Ooooo, I'm absolutely going to try that, thank you for the advice! I do eat low carb, but I don't tend to eat after about 7pm, sometimes i don't eat after 5. I'll try having a small snack later on and see what happens. - I should probably not exercise before breakfast either! - thank you again. :)


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Messages
6,107
Type of diabetes
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Diet only
To clarify the point I have my evening meal any time between 4pm and 6pm and this is the one I have been trying carb free. I wasn't talking about a snack later on since I don't do that.

When explaining the liver dump to me my nurse said I should not leave a bigger gap than 5 or 6 hours between meals but since I sleep longer than that I suppose I get the dawn phenomenon. The no carbs in the evening has lowered the numbers and gives me a good starting point for the day.

It was 5.5 this morning but yesterday was in the 6's because I ate a fruit bun Saturday evening. Interesting ennit.
 

hornplayer

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983
Confusing more like. :/ looking at it that way, I'm leaving at least twelve to fourteen hours between meals at night. That's definitely some sort of dumping ground. Am going to try the snack before bed - zero carb of course, and see how that turns out. Will post results here! :)


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Messages
6,107
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
hornplayer said:
Confusing more like. :/ looking at it that way, I'm leaving at least twelve to fourteen hours between meals at night. That's definitely some sort of dumping ground. Am going to try the snack before bed - zero carb of course, and see how that turns out. Will post results here! :)


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Great I will look out for it.
 

hornplayer

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K, well none of that worked. :(

It doesn't seem to make a difference whether I have a snack in the evening or not. Or what that snack is. ( - obviously it's going to be either no carb or low carb) In the morning my BG is between 8.1 and 10.3. It won't go lower. Exercise doesn't seem to make a difference either. - in fact, my highest evening readings happen when I've been to the gym late afternoon, and the morning after ones are almost the highest.

I don't know what to do. I've been diagnosed for 3wks, I'm still increasing my Metformin up to the dose I'm s'posed to be on. My first meeting with the diabetic nurse is at the beginning of July. I'm afraid that if I can't get my morning reading down, they'll want to put me on insulin. I really don't want that!

I don't know how this works. :(


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Neil Walters

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I find I have to take the metformin with food for it to be effective so if you take morning and evening doses they should be equally spaced and taken with food. I am no expert but I think you should be having something to eat before bed to avoid your body creating sugars which could be spiking your am readings


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Finzi

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366
Hornplayer - please don't panic yet! It's really normal for your morning readings to be the last to come down - that's exactly how it went with me (and they still tend to be higher than my pre-lunch, which is invariably my lowest reading). They came down gradually, on their own, with time: certainly a lot longer than 3 weeks (I would say closer to 3 months). I don't know whether or not you're a "typical" overweight type 2, but if so, they will probably improve as you lose weight and therefore improve insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is the issue, as there's not a lot you can do about the liver dumping glucose. But for non diabetics it doesn't matter because their insulin deals with it - type 2's tend to be insulin resistant.

Re your concerns about putting you onto insulin - I can see where you're coming from with that, but hopefully they would make decisions about insulin based on an hba1c, not a finger prick. And although obviously high morning readings will affect your hba1c, remember all the times in the day when you're not high - it should even out. If, however,you are worried that your surgery will be foolish enough to make an insulin decision based on a fingerprick test then there's an easy way round that - don't have a test first thing in the morning. They may suggest you do, because they may "assume" that a morning fasting test is best, but if for example your levels are like mine and best before lunch, then book your appointment then (but obviously this only applies to a fingerprick - hba1c can be taken any time, it makes no difference).




Type 2 on Metformin, diagnosed Jan 2013, ultra low carber, Hba1C at diagnosis 8% (11mmol), now between 4.5 and 5.5 mmol. 20kg lost so far :)
 

hornplayer

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983
Thank you so much for the support. I'll try having some Greek yogurt before I go to bed tonight, see if that makes a difference. I've tried snacks before bed, but it didn't seem to make a difference. - my morning readings are going one way and my day time ones are going the other! -

Yesterday am: 10.3
Before lunch: 7
Before dinner: 6.9

Today am: 10.7 (!!)
Before lunch: 6.8
Before dinner: 6.2

Today was the highest reading I've had in the two weeks I've been doing regular readings!

Yesterday and today I've been restricting the amount of protein I'm eating, as I understand that too much can cause spikes. I did eat a bit earlier than normal yesterday as I had concert in the evening. I didn't eat anything when I got home, even though I was hungry, because I'd had enough protein and I'm trying to lose weight.

I don't know if I'm a typical type 2, I am overweight but I'm not enormous and I'm fairly fit. - riding and ski-ing, walking and going to the gym. I haven't eaten any "grain" products for the last two years as I have a problem with gluten. I don't eat fast food, and I can't remember a time when I wasn't "on a diet" or watching what I ate. I don't drink or smoke, but there is a family history of diabetes.

I've lost 10lbs since diagnosis but my morning reading is still going up. :(


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Finzi

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366
I think you may have answered your own question ;). You went to bed hungry? That's probably misplaced. That's exactly when liver dump happens. It's not that protein causes "spikes". Carbohydrates cause spikes. Protein can cause your sugar to rise to the extent that your body can use protein to make glucose, but I don't think you necessarily need to avoid it. Also, try not to worry about it. There's not even necessarily that much point measuring your morning sugars every day. It's not like you can do much about them. They'll come down on their own. Honestly :)


Type 2 on Metformin, diagnosed Jan 2013, ultra low carber, Hba1C at diagnosis 8% (11mmol), now between 4.5 and 5.5 mmol. 20kg lost so far :)
 

Sunshine_Kisses

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Messages
261
As Finzi said, try not to panic yet : it also took me three months to get my morning readings down... They were like yours, worst one I recorded was 12, which I was really upset with at the time, but now it's usually 5s... So you will get there. Did you say you're low carbing? If so are you counting carbs? My morning readings didn't go down until I was less than 50g carbs a day - course we're all different but that was my experience so maybe experiment with your carb amounts... And I'm not too careful with fats, but again, experiment with what works for you... Good luck! :)
 

hornplayer

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983
Hmm, yours were like mine? That's really reassuring, thank you. :)

I'm low carbing. Done it for years, off and on. I am counting my carbs. When I was first diagnosed, the doctor I saw panicked and started talking ambulances. It was a massive over reaction and I said no. When he stopped muttering, he told me to cut ALL carbs immediately! - good advise from a doctor, I thought, unusually so, it appears from some posts I've read. I don't think he knew what else to do as the diabetic lead for the practice was on holiday. So that was zero carbs. Since talking to the other Doc. I'm now fixed between 15 and 30g a day. I'm hoping that I can increase that a little when my BG eventually does come down.

Yes, I'm confused about eating at night. I've been on a diet of some sort for about 3/4 of my life. - I firmly believe that the diet industry is just as responsible for diabetes as obesity is. - I've kinda got used to being hungry a lot of the time. It goes against the grain to eat that late at night. I tried it last week for a few days and for the first two, my BG was a bit lower next morning, - in the 8's. I thought "fantastic"! Then it bounced up over 10 even though I ate exactly the same thing, so I stopped again and it stayed over 10.

Will try it again tonight. Greek yogurt doesn't seem to spike, so I'll try that. - with cinnamon.


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Neil Walters

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265
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not being Grumpy
A natural yogurt with some loose mixed nuts of pumpkin, pine and sunflower works just fine and I find it gives your body something to work with and generally a lower morning Pre food reading results in my experience whereas eat nothing late evening and I get a higher Pre food reading in the morning


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hornplayer

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983
I ate naked yogurt last night and it was a little lower this morning, - 9.5, I'll try a few nuts and seeds tonight and see how it goes.

- seriously, thanks for the help guys, it really is very much appreciated!


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Andy12345

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hi, im sure you heard this before but it will probly settle down in a short while, it took me a couple of months to settle, try not to stress too much, good luck :)


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Sunshine_Kisses

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Do you drink? I know it's an odd one, but I *always* find if I have a glass of red wine in the evening, my morning readings are lower. Apparently it's the reversatrol in it - which is higher in better quality reds. I only have a small to medium sized glass and just the one as I know there's the trade off of a reasonable number of calories (though red only has a couple of carbs per glass - bonus!) - but if I'm ever wanting to bring my morning readings down further, it does so without fail :-D
 

Andy12345

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I don't drink but....how cool is that! That wine is good for your bg, it's kinda like girls wearing less in the summer it's a win win situation ( unless I crash the van of course ) lol wow talk about digressing, sorry