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Confused by Diabetic Cookbooks

Discussion in 'Newly Diagnosed' started by FranOnTheEdge, Mar 4, 2016.

  1. FranOnTheEdge

    FranOnTheEdge Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi there, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes on about the 29th December last year. I know I am overweight, so I've been trying to loose weight since 1st September 2015, joined Slimming World on 2nd Feb 2016, but have been trying to follow Slimming World since I was diagnosed last year starting on about the 5th Jan.
    I have managed to loose some weight, total to date since Sept is: 2st 3lb 12oz.
    This is nice. (Understatement of the year!)

    However I have a couple of diabetes recipe books and the recipes in there seem to be different in some respects to those on Slimming World. On Slimming World you can have as much veg and fruit as you like and you manage the other carbs like bread, milk and cheese in a very controlled way and almost totally cut out all fat you can find. Like I've totally cut out cream, and almost totally cut out butter, so you 'fry' with frylight, not oil or butter or anything like that. You cut off all the visible fat on bacon, and you weigh wholemeal bread, eggs you can have lots of, baked beans ditto... Protein is also allowed. So I can have poultry, fish and quorn etc. But I don't think I've seen flour mentioned and when I was asking if there was a SW recipe for making your own wraps - thinking this would be better for you than bought ones or than sandwiches - I was told that there isn't one because it's the flour that's bad, and in fact wraps would be worse for you than bread is. I miss my tomato, cucumber and beetroot sandwiches so much that sometimes I break out and have some anyway.

    In one of the Diabetes Cook Books there are recipes using: maple syrup, groundnut oil, cashew nut butter, dried apricots, white and wholemeal SR flour and good grief - magarine! isn't that full of trans fats said to be the worst fats for you? And there's lots more stuff in these books: olive oil, honey, black olives, feta cheese, avocado, cheddar cheese, (unfortunately the taste free kind), and full fat Greek Yoghurt. All of these things I used to like, and as far as I can understand (this may be completely wrong and if so I'd be delighted) these things are either frowned on or changed for stuff like sweetener, frylight sprays, fresh fruit not dried, flour isn't even mentioned, but tasteless cheddar is... unfortunately and full fat yoghurt is swapped for fat free yoghurt.
    So am I still eating the wrong things (as a diabetic) if I'm following Slimming World guidelines?

    Can I try some of those diabetes cook book recipes or not? Am I in fact cutting out too much?
    I don't want to stop loosing the weight, I'm thrilled with that, so what are the facts?

    Names of books are: "Healthy Cooking For Diabetics" and "Diabetes Recipes"
     
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  2. Finsky

    Finsky Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    Well done for your weight loss!!! How's your blood sugar levels?
    As for the 'diabetic cook book' ...hmm...well...some of those carb ingredients might be more acceptable for type1 diabetic than type 2 who is struggling lower one's glucose levels. Have a look at 'low carb' section forum...and see what people are eating..you might be positively surprised ;)... and things is..we ARE loosing weight and maintaining good blood sugar levels.
    Just a little spoiler...imagine enjoying cream, butter, proper cheese, nice meat without going for dry fatless cuts etc etc.:angelic:
    You don't need slimming world anymore....you can have US now..:D
    I let others, more experienced ones to give you more detailed and educated reply..
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. CollieBoy

    CollieBoy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @FranOnTheEdge,
    Welcome, congratulations on the weight loss.
    Ihave moved onto a Higher Fat Low carb diet, which has cut my BGs/HbA1c fairly well, and the way I use recipe books is for inspiration and recipes checked by BG meter. i have tried to cut back on carbohydrates, substituting nut flours and non carby veg. Fats I try to restrict to healthy versions (nut oils, fish oils, butter etc) note higher fat does not mean chewing sticks of lard just natural levels in yogourt & milk.
    The higher fat means I don't get the hunger from the low fat foods and get the full flavour & miss the carb additions usually substituted into low fat to replace the fat.
    I found 'Eat Fat' by Dr Trudi Deakin to be very informative.
     
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  4. britishpub

    britishpub Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @FranOnTheEdge I think you will find those Cookbooks you refer to are not aimed at Type 2's who are controlling the disease by Diet.
     
  5. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Hi Fran
    I'll tag @daisy1 for the info sheet on Type 2 which you might find very interesting. A lot of us follow a low carb diet here with which we have had much success both in weight loss and blood sugar control. Have a look at what Daisy posts then have a read around on the low carb forum on this site as well as the success story thread. You will find lots of very helpful info and some great support too. If you have any questions after your read then just ask.. we don't bite.. well rarely anyway.. You have some to a friendly supportive place where you can hopefully learn how to help yourself.
    All the best
    Mark
     
  6. Klangley

    Klangley Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the forum @FranOnTheEdge. Losing weight is very important for most T2s. Congratulations on your absolutely fantastic results. I could never loose weight on a traditional old-school diet regime. I genuinely admire your dedication. I couldn't give up my Cheese, butter, olives, a decent rib-eye steak, a glass or 2 of red wine etc.

    Weight and Blood Sugar levels (for most T2 diabetics) normally travel in the same direction, but weight is only part of the problem. The real problem is sugar/carbohydrate. A lot of Low Fat 'diet' products compensate by adding sugar. Sugar is the cheapest flavour enhancer available to producers and most of us have been conditioned from childhood to have a sweet tooth. I avoid diet products and follow a LCHF diet (Low Carb Healthy Fat). We started dieting at the same time, Spetember. My weight loss has not been as spectacular as yours but I have never been hungry, never had a serious craving and never felt deprived. I will happily be continuing this regime for life. Of course it is entirely possible that you may be able to say the same and are enjoying the regime you have found. If so great, but in any case this LCHF thing is certainly worth looking into. It would be interesting to know how your Blood Sugar levels have responded since September.

    Incidentally the problem with diabetic cookbooks is that anyone can write one :). Personally as a T2, I would not buy a book authored by anyone who hasn't also been a T2 and managed to control their condition by diet. There is such a lot of misunderstand and false wisdom out there (including within the NHS). Buy a monitor and find out what recipes or ingredients work for you.....eat, test, adjust, repeat.

    Good luck and welcome to this forum. A genuinely helpful and friendly bunch.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Pinkorchid

    Pinkorchid Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I know a lot diabetics do swear by Slimming World there are about 3 in my daughters SW group and they say they are doing really well. It depends what suits us as individuals really
     
    #7 Pinkorchid, Mar 4, 2016 at 3:27 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2016
  8. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    The big problem with Slimming World long term is that they push this low fat message. Short term it isn't a problem, of course it helps you to lose weight, you are reducing calorie intake.. Longer term it isn't good for anyone, diabetic or not. We need fats to stay healthy. The problems of a low fat diet can take many years to manifest.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. daisy1

    daisy1 Type 2 · Legend
    Retired Moderator

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    @FranOnTheEdge

    Hello Fran and welcome to the forum :) Have a good read of the excellent advice given above by members. In addition, here is the information we give to new members and I hope you will find it helpful. Ask as many questions as you need to.

    BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

    Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

    A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find over 150,000 people who are demonstrating this.

    On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

    The role of carbohydrate

    Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

    If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

    The bad news

    Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

    The good news

    People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

    Controlling your carbs

    The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
    There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

    • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
    • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

    Reduce your carbohydrates

    A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

    The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

    Choosing better carbohydrates

    Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
    http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes-and-whole-grains.html

    The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

    Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

    LOW CARB PROGRAM:
    http://www.diabetes.co.uk/low carb program


    Eating what works for you

    Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

    To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

    The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

    Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
    • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
    • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
    Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
    • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
    • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
    Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
    • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
    • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
    However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

    Access to blood glucose test strips

    The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

    • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
    • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

    Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to bloodglucose testing supplies.

    You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

    Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
     
  10. FranOnTheEdge

    FranOnTheEdge Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Wow! What lovely welcomes and what a lot of information. Thank you all so much.
    My doctor has set me up to do a 'Desmond' but it's taking a long time to get to that. (It's an all day education course for diabetics.)
    I just got so fed up with waiting and waiting and waiting that I wanted to try and do something about it now.

    I have not been offered any means of testing - and at the outset that puzzled me.
    I understand that a test meter must have some means of piercing the skin in order to get blood to test, and I do understand that what you put that blood onto would need to be throw away, in order to keep things clean. But I've never seen one.
    I have heard people in here talking about 'test strips' so I'm imagining it's like a litmus test paper strip, only for blood.

    It may be that I would be offered a test meter after or during the 'Desmond' - but it's taking so long to get to that point!

    There was something about supplying your address and such-like for a meter when I joined this forum, I don't know if that was a draw, or what.

    I also don't know if all test strips fit all meters, or if some are more expensive than others, maybe some are made of gold?

    "You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic"

    Yes, I've seen that, I'll take notes - wish I'd seen it before the clinic appointment - I'll have forgotten all about it by the time the next one comes around in a year's time - don't you just hate it when they say "have you got any questions?" and all you can answer is - "I don't know what I should be asking - I don't know what questions there are to ask."
    It's very frustrating.

    Oh, people wanted to know: I'm on slow release metformin, (and it's still giving me the squits) I was on the normal metformin, but I could hardly leave the loo on that one, so the Doc changed it to this slower controlled release one - but I still daren't go swimming! I get a few less attacks but I still never know which day I'm going to get an attack.

    Finsky,
    "Well done for your weight loss!!! How's your blood sugar levels?
    I have absolutely no idea, and I wish I did.
    As for the 'diabetic cook book' ...hmm...well...some of those carb ingredients might be more acceptable for type1 diabetic than type 2 who is struggling lower one's glucose levels.
    They both talk about both types of diabetes…
    Have a look at 'low carb' section forum...and see what people are eating..you might be positively surprised ;)...
    Oh I will.
    and things is..we ARE loosing weight and maintaining good blood sugar levels.
    Just a little spoiler...imagine enjoying cream, butter, proper cheese, nice meat without going for dry fatless cuts etc etc.:angelic:
    Ooooh, (apart from the meat part – not a fan of red meats.)
    You don't need slimming world anymore....you can have US now..":D
    Lol! Thanks, I'm glad to have found you.

    CollieBoy Type 2 · Legend
    Welcome, congratulations on the weight loss.
    Thank you, I was amazed when I worked it out. My husband kept saying I'd lost some, but I couldn't feel it myself, or I'd tell myself it was just imagination – I certainly don't look any different.


    Ihave moved onto a Higher Fat Low carb diet, which has cut my BGs/HbA1c fairly well,
    Sorry, I don't know what " BGs/HbA1c" means. But the higher fat low carb part sounds interesting, although I will be upset if I have to give up my wholemeal toast or potatoes, kidney beans and rice. Still, I've given up a lot of other things, why not my remaining joys as well? (depressed expression.)

    and the way I use recipe books is for inspiration
    Oh I do that too, I recently amalgamated two recipes into one, and made "Baby Pots and Toms with Paprika Prawns" – all done in my AirFryer, which I am trying to use more.

    and recipes checked by BG meter. i have tried to cut back on carbohydrates, substituting nut flours
    Nut flours? I've never heard of those before.

    and non carby veg.
    Dwarf green beans, leeks, cabbage, peas, carrots, asparagus, spring onions, brussels, spinach, sweetcorn, stuff like that?

    Fats I try to restrict to healthy versions (nut oils, fish oils, butter etc)
    I really hated giving up butter – in fact I hated it so much – I'd cheat occasionally, alright, almost every day: wm toast and butter, although I did try and put less butter on the toast.

    In Slimming World you are supposed to have huge breakfasts and although I like those, I just can't face it every day.

    note higher fat does not mean chewing sticks of lard just natural levels in yogourt & milk.
    The higher fat means I don't get the hunger from the low fat foods and get the full flavour & miss the carb additions usually substituted into low fat to replace the fat.
    I found 'Eat Fat' by Dr Trudi Deakin to be very informative.
    Right, I'll research that. Thanks.

    britishpub,
    I think you will find those Cookbooks you refer to are not aimed at Type 2's who are controlling the disease by Diet.
    If you say so. I don't know… they seem to be talking about both types though. Shrug.


    Bulkbiker,
    Hi Fran
    Hi Mark,

    I'll tag @daisy1 for the info sheet on Type 2 which you might find very interesting.
    Thanks, turns out I've already read that, but this link means I can find it more easily.

    A lot of us follow a low carb diet here with which we have had much success both in weight loss and blood sugar control. Have a look at what Daisy posts then have a read around on the low carb forum on this site as well as the success story thread. You will find lots of very helpful info and some great support too. If you have any questions after your read then just ask.. we don't bite.. well rarely anyway.. You have some to a friendly supportive place where you can hopefully learn how to help yourself.
    All the best
    Mark

    Thanks Mark, I'll pop over and have a good read on all that.


    Klangley Type 2 · Regular
    Welcome to the forum @FranOnTheEdge. Losing weight is very important for most T2s. Congratulations on your absolutely fantastic results.
    Thank you, I just hope I can keep it up. I need to, I've got a lot more I need to loose.

    I could never loose weight on a traditional old-school diet regime. I genuinely admire your dedication.
    It's certainly not been easy, so thank you.

    I couldn't give up my Cheese, butter, olives, a decent rib-eye steak, a glass or 2 of red wine etc.
    Cheese! I gave that up, sob! SW lets you have "reduced fat cheddar"… what's the point? there's very little taste in it, you need the strongest cheddar you can find to cook with.
    Can't have red wine because of the metformin - I miss that too. I cheat on butter.


    Weight and Blood Sugar levels (for most T2 diabetics) normally travel in the same direction, but weight is only part of the problem. The real problem is sugar/carbohydrate. A lot of Low Fat 'diet' products compensate by adding sugar. Sugar is the cheapest flavour enhancer available to producers and most of us have been conditioned from childhood to have a sweet tooth. I avoid diet products
    Since trying to loose weight, I've bought a few of those, but mostly I make my own food in large batches and eat one portion while freezing the rest – it's stood me in good stead while I've been ill with flu and tonsilitis, and unwilling to do anything very much.

    I cook with frylight and add sweetener instead of sugar to balance the often too sharp tinned and cartonized tomatoes.

    I've got: Chicken and Veg Soup, Turkey Bolognaise, Sweet and Sour Chicken, Chilli Con Carné, (sans chilli, cos I don't like hot N spicy.) And a failed but still nice Makhani Chicken Curry. (again no chillis)

    and follow a LCHF diet (Low Carb Healthy Fat). We started dieting at the same time, Spetember. My weight loss has not been as spectacular as yours but I have never been hungry,
    Gawd, I have!

    never had a serious craving
    Just chocolate.

    and never felt deprived.
    I have. Often.

    I will happily be continuing this regime for life.
    Continuing, yeah, dunno about 'happily' though. (I'm talking about the SW diet, there.)

    Of course it is entirely possible that you may be able to say the same and are enjoying the regime you have found.
    Nope. 'Managing' is about what I'd say.

    If so great, but in any case this LCHF thing is certainly worth looking into. It would be interesting to know how your Blood Sugar levels have responded since September.
    Wouldn't it just!

    Incidentally the problem with diabetic cookbooks is that anyone can write one :). Personally as a T2, I would not buy a book authored by anyone who hasn't also been a T2 and managed to control their condition by diet. There is such a lot of misunderstand and false wisdom out there (including within the NHS). Buy a monitor and find out what recipes or ingredients work for you.....eat, test, adjust, repeat.
    Yes, it's looking like I might have to, are they very expensive?

    Good luck and welcome to this forum. A genuinely helpful and friendly bunch.
    Thank you, people have been very welcoming to me. Gives you a nice warm feeling.


    Pinkorchid Type 2 · Regular
    I know a lot diabetics do swear by Slimming World there are about 3 in my daughters SW group and they say they are doing really well. It depends what suits us as individuals really

    There are none in the group I attend, I've seen a fair few pop out of the woodwork online when I asked about it, but that's it.

    zand Type 2 · Champion
    The big problem with Slimming World long term is that they push this low fat message. Short term it isn't a problem, of course it helps you to lose weight, you are reducing calorie intake.. Longer term it isn't good for anyone, diabetic or not. We need fats to stay healthy. The problems of a low fat diet can take many years to manifest.
    Oh. I didn't know that.


    daisy1 Type 2 · Moderator
    I won't copy everything you've posted, instead I'll just say, "thanks." I did read it when I first found the forum, but nice to have the opportunity to read it again.


     
    #10 FranOnTheEdge, Mar 5, 2016 at 3:03 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2016
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