COVID 2019 Comorbidity with Diabetes

[Indy51]

incidentally my bgl are normal and maybe even lower, perhaps due to the huge amounts of vitamin C I’m ingesting (2-3g over the day right now)?? Found lots of papers to say type 2 are typically low anyway and Vit C can lower bgl and insulin levels significantly as well as plenty to say it helps support the immunity for this kind of bug

Thanks - I think I have my answer to something that's been puzzling me. I've been taking an additional 1000iu of D3, consistent daily (as opposed to 1x week prior) Vitamin A 1500ug (retinol) plus 3mg of Vitamin C for a few weeks now and am amazed at the difference in my BG levels. Best they've ever been even with eating higher carb (around 100g/day) trying to stabilise weight loss. Prior to this I'd only been on 1g of Vitamin C. Getting much lower rises after meals and returning to baseline a lot faster too. Who knew Vitamin C could make such a big difference?

 

[poemagraphic]

We thought we were self employed too but this type is specifically excluded.

Savings just tip us over UC (so we won’t actually starve) but this is allocated to other commitments almost due that aren’t taken into account. We’ll be getting into debt with those very soon if we choose to feed/house and clothe ourselves instead. Insurance won’t cover it as most don’t do pandemic type situations. Fingers crossed very tightly it doesn’t happen as we are in the minority slipping through the net.

There are so many who will wake tomorrow in the same boat... you are all up the creek without a paddle, at the mercy of the tide which will sweep you over the falls.
After that, the sharks and money lenders will pick you to the bone like a frenzied shoal of piranhas.
Po

I pray you all stay well and find a way through it.

 

[Rustytypin]

Some things are ok. Re: male circumcision. But F.G.M. is definitely a no no. and the State should act, its brutal and cannot come under any cultural norm

I know this is off topic, but I cannot let this pass. Male circumcision is also mutilation, usually performed on babies or young boys who have no choice in what has happened to them.
I was circumcised as an infant and have not forgiven my parents for it. I have no idea how it has affected my sex life, but I will never know, I did not have the choice.
Mutilation of any child is not acceptable for ANY reason, other than medical necessity.

 

[Winnie53]

Thanks - I think I have my answer to something that's been puzzling me. I've been taking an additional 1000iu of D3, consistent daily (as opposed to 1x week prior) Vitamin A 1500ug (retinol) plus 3mg of Vitamin C for a few weeks now and am amazed at the difference in my BG levels. Best they've ever been even with eating higher carb (around 100g/day) trying to stabilise weight loss. Prior to this I'd only been on 1g of Vitamin C. Getting much lower rises after meals and returning to baseline a lot faster too. Who knew Vitamin C could make such a big difference?

Indy51, I was listening to Dr. Gundry interview Terry Wahl, MD last night - (it's a new one; she's revised and updated her book) - and was surprised to hear her negative opinion of supplementing with vitamin A (retinol) because she believes you accumulate but never deplete it.

I thought this thinking had changed years and years ago. Am I missing something? What have you learned from your readings on this? I'm curious because I've read that vitamin A plays a role in immune function.

Found their discussion on the carnivore diet (beginning at minute 15:09) in which the topic of vitamin A (retinol) was briefly discussed (beginning at minute 15:30).

 

[HSSS]

There are so many who will wake tomorrow in the same boat... you are all up the creek without a paddle, at the mercy of the tide which will sweep you over the falls.
After that, the sharks and money lenders will pick you to the bone like a frenzied shoal of piranhas.
Po

I pray you all stay well and find a way through it.

Cheers for that happy prediction Po

 

[Indy51]

Indy51, I was listening to Dr. Gundry interview Terry Wahl, MD last night - (it's a new one; she's revised and updated her book) - and was surprised to hear her negative opinion of supplementing with vitamin A (retinol) because she believes you accumulate but never deplete it.

I thought this thinking had changed years and years ago. Am I missing something? What have you learned from your readings on this? I'm curious because I've read that vitamin A plays a role in immune function.

Found their discussion on the carnivore diet (beginning at minute 15:09) in which the topic of vitamin A (retinol) was briefly discussed (beginning at minute 15:30).

Can't say I've gone into it in a huge amount of detail. Can't even recall what I read/heard that decided to change my scheduling on the A. I won't keep it up for more than a couple of weeks and will revert to my usual one every couple of weeks when I remember. I don't eat a huge amount of the orange type vegs that have beta-carotene and also have the SNP that means I don't convert it very well either. Also have both older sister (and a deceased aunt) with severe macular degeneration which was the reason I started my periodic supplementation. I've also read/heard contrary evidence about whether toxicity from supplementation (as opposed to eating polar bear liver for example) has ever happened in real life or is just theory.

I believe Kresser has changed his view on taking both D and A and now advising against it in the Covid-19 context - so who knows which expert to follow in this case? The only super-physiological dose I'm taking of anything is possibly Vitamin C at the moment - it's not something I tend to do and prefer cycling supplements. Only supplements I always take are D3/K2 which I normally take at 1000iu for D3 and K2 (however it comes in one cap and various brands) and magnesium. Reason for D3 is that I end up with deficiencies if I don't take it; also SNPs that make it a good precaution.

Haven't watched the interviews you linked, so can't comment on Wahl's view on the matter.

 

[Winnie53]

Yes Indy51, I also read Kresser's article in which he cautioned against mega dosing vitamins A and D, but it's the same concern with the ACE inhibitor and ARB medications which doctors are advising to continue. Who knows... I'm definately continuing with the codliver oil and 2,000 IU D3 after taking 5,000 IU for two weeks.

 

[Indy51]

Yes Indy51, I also read Kresser's article in which he cautioned against mega dosing vitamins A and D, but it's the same concern with the ACE inhibitor and ARB medications which doctors are advising to continue. Who knows... I'm definately continuing with the codliver oil and 2,000 IU D3 after taking 5,000 IU for two weeks.

Since neither of us are "mega dosing", I think we're minimising harm. If I do get ill, I may even rethink but until then, I plan on supporting my immune system anyway I know how. Especially given my recent bout of shingles and lung exacerbation this time last year. Really all of us can do is take the precautions we deem necessary for our own health - it's a gamble no matter what we do when we have co-morbidities, I reckon.

 

[Winnie53]

Agreed Indy51. Sorry to hear about the shingles. Yikes.

I'm feeling a bit jealous... of your's and HSSS's dropping glucose levels while taking vitamin C. Mine dropped a bit, but not as much as yours. I was listening to Thomas E. Levy, MD yesterday, and he provided an explanation toward the end of his lecture in London from 2017...

It seems that the pancreas mistakes vitamin C for glucose because they're so similar. So...when we take vitamin C, the pancreas releases insulin to address it. Some patients have a hypoglycemic episode when high doses of vitamin C is administered via IV. Not dangerous, but can be a bit uncomfortable.

 

[Winnie53]

When I'm bored I look for something to watch on YouTube.

Yesterday, it was Dr. Levy's lecture that I posted above.

Tonight it was a couple of animal videos followed by Dr. Richard Cheng's most recent video.

In it, he expressed his concern that New York hospital doctors are administering 6 g of vitamin C via IV in 3 to 4 split doses a day to COVID-19 patients, which Dr. Cheng states is not enough. I agree.

The dose China used with 50 COVID-19 patients was also sub-optimal, only 20 g of vitamin C a day, but the patients were discharged 4 to 5 days earlier than the other patients and none died, so that was good.

I read through all the comments below Dr. Cheng's video and came upon a reference to a 60 Minutes story, "Living Proof?" filmed in 2010 about a New Zealand dairy farmer, Alan Smith, who almost died from the H1N1 swine flu in 2009. The doctors tried to remove him from life support multiple times. The family insisted that they administer high dose vitamin C via IV.

Dr. Levy had told the man's story during the lecture I listened to yesterday. I thought the man had died. I misunderstood. He not only survived, he walked out of the hospital 2 weeks after having been in an induced coma for 9 weeks.

It's an amazing testimonial of a family's love and determination to bring their father back, and the healing power of vitamin C, only 18 minutes in length...

The before and after lung x-rays were dramatically different. Within 2 days of starting the 100 g a day of vitamin C via IV, images of the lungs went from solid white to partially clear.

 

[Indy51]

@Winnie53 - am most way through the Wahls interview and must say what she had to say about retinol and pulmonary fibrosis has left me a bit shaken. I can see a deep dive into the research coming up. I had already heard about it being an issue in people with lung cancer/smokers, but despite being on the PF forum and watching a lot of their webinars and conference presentations, I've never seen/heard retinol mentioned once.

One of the reasons I've never gone "full bore carnivore" myself, despite reducing my insoluble fibre consumption a lot because of IBS/SIBO? issues is the worry both of them mentioned about trying to reintroduce vegetables after the elimination phase. It's a question that has always niggled at me about all elimination diets, tbh.

I find Wahls "just so" speculations about past diets, eating habits, etc. every bit as "out there" as I find many of the diet gurus about their ways of eating being the only true way.

Off to watch the rest of the podcast...

 

[Winnie53]

Yes Indy51, that interview surprised me too. I need to watch it again tomorrow. I missed the reference to PF. My husband will want to watch it now. Terry Wahl's has made huge contributions to the multiple sclerosis communities. Some have responded well to her approach. She's well respected here in the US. Time for me to get some sleep...

 

[Indy51]

Yes Indy51, that interview surprised me too. I need to watch it again tomorrow. I missed the reference to PF. My husband will want to watch it now. Terry Wahl's has made huge contributions to the multiple sclerosis communities. Some have responded well to her approach. She's well respected here in the US. Time for me to get some sleep...

Sleep well. First paper I ran across has reams on the dangers of Vitamin A deficiency for lung health, esp fibrosis, so I'm even more confused now. I'm thinking the only solution is to actually be tested to find out my personal status. But since the couple of weeks of daily supplementation have passed, will cut way back on supplementation again to be on the safe side.

 

[poemagraphic]

Cheers for that happy prediction Po

We must inject some humouring now and again.
This situation will be a blessing in disguise for so many people and so many things.
It will have a duel effect tearing families apart and bringing many more closely together.

I predict it will help some Type 2 who are sensible enough to plan their diets more closely and avoid the temptations of the demon sugars and high carbs... If it is not in the house we can't eat it.

Cost will be a huge factor for so many families. Some may, with the extra time on their hands learn how to cook good wholesome foods for the whole family and save a fortune on takeaways etc.

 

[KimmieRidge]

@Winnie53 I noticed this also. I have been working at a factory that manufactures vitamins and a popular choice at the moment are 1000mg vitamin C tablets. The factory is considered essential partly for this reason. Treatment with high doses of vitamin C seems to be part of treatment strategy for those with respiratory conditions exacerbated by the virus.

 

[Mr_Pot]

Am I the only person on here who doesn't take any supplements? I have never taken any in my life and I have got to 72 without any problems apart from the diabetes which I control with low carbs. I have always had a very varied diet and I spend time outside every day, maybe that is enough. I wonder if it is the same people who dismiss foods because they have a minute amount of an additive who then take vast amounts of some chemical as a supplement?

 

[KimmieRidge]

Am I the only person on here who doesn't take any supplements? I have never taken any in my life and I have got to 72 without any problems apart from the diabetes which I control with low carbs. I have always had a very varied diet and I spend time outside every day, maybe that is enough. I wonder if it is the same people who dismiss foods because they have a minute amount of an additive who then take vast amounts of some chemical as a supplement?

The vitamin business is in high demand right now. Panic buying has applied equally to vitamins as to loo roll.

 

[Brunneria]

Am I the only person on here who doesn't take any supplements? I have never taken any in my life and I have got to 72 without any problems apart from the diabetes which I control with low carbs. I have always had a very varied diet and I spend time outside every day, maybe that is enough. I wonder if it is the same people who dismiss foods because they have a minute amount of an additive who then take vast amounts of some chemical as a supplement?

There are many people who don’t supplement.
There are also many people who need to.
After eating a good nutritious diet for my entire life, I ended up testing extremely low on a few vits and mins.
Turns out that even if I eat the nutrients, i can’t absorb them as efficiently as other people, possibly due to a nasty tummy bug I had in my 20s, possibly due to genetics. I also have gut permeability which lets things through that it shouldn’t.

Either way, without supplements I get severe deficiencies in 3 things (there may be more, but testing is difficult for some nutrients) which would cause immune system issues and neuropathy if I didn’t supplement.

 

[HSSS]

Am I the only person on here who doesn't take any supplements? I have never taken any in my life and I have got to 72 without any problems apart from the diabetes which I control with low carbs. I have always had a very varied diet and I spend time outside every day, maybe that is enough. I wonder if it is the same people who dismiss foods because they have a minute amount of an additive who then take vast amounts of some chemical as a supplement?

I didn’t until fairly recently. But like @Brunneria have found a few I am repeatedly low for regardless of how carefully I eat for them, quite possibly an absorption issue too. Would I die without the intermittent courses of supplements, probably not but I would most definitely feel some quite serious negative effects. So just because you’ve been fine doesn’t mean we all are and it doesn’t make us hypocritical the way you suggest. A vitamin supplement for an actual lack of something required is very different to a harmful chemical added for shelf life or colour etc.

 

[HSSS]

Agreed Indy51. Sorry to hear about the shingles. Yikes.

I'm feeling a bit jealous... of your's and HSSS's dropping glucose levels while taking vitamin C. Mine dropped a bit, but not as much as yours. I was listening to Thomas E. Levy, MD yesterday, and he provided an explanation toward the end of his lecture in London from 2017...

It seems that the pancreas mistakes vitamin C for glucose because they're so similar. So...when we take vitamin C, the pancreas releases insulin to address it. Some patients have a hypoglycemic episode when high doses of vitamin C is administered via IV. Not dangerous, but can be a bit uncomfortable.

The papers I was reading suggested that insulin fell along side bgl. Lowering bgl at the cost of raising insulin is not desirable in my book. The mechanism was more that vit c is low in diabetes and the supplement restore normality and associated function to optimum rather than trick the pancreas. I’ll try dig them out and perhaps start a new vit c thread when I do. In the meantime for a few weeks whilst there is so much danger of cv and particularly whilst I am having some mild symptoms I’ll keep it up and read more.